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High End Luxury Cars

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  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I've not just looked at it closely, but sat in the car on two occasions, once at the NYAS, and once at a Caddy dealer. In both cases, I would say the interior is good enough to qualify for the CTS. I wouldnt pay more than $40K for it, let alone $75K. Also, when I pulled the door shut in the XLR, it made a hollow sound that reminded me of a Kia. There's just no way that this:
    http://i19.ebayimg.com/04/i/06/8b/1f/62_3.JPG
    http://i9.ebayimg.com/02/i/06/82/fa/de_3.JPG

    Is higher quality than this. Considering that the Jag's interior design is 10 years old, I'd say it looks quite good.
    http://photos.ebizautos.com/3620/866682_17.jpg
    http://photos.ebizautos.com/3620/866682_28.jpg
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Considering that the Jag's interior design is 10 years old, I'd say it looks quite good.

    No doubt about it. Credit where credit's due. The Jag's interior design concept may be a little old in the tooth, but it is incredibly well mastered and timeless.

    TagMan
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    image

    I guess I referred to the XCoupe as being sophisticated because of the use of asymmetry and it reminds me of a Picasso, specifically Le Demoiselles d'Avignon . But wow, this thing is ugly. It also looks like a Cabbage Patch doll. Well we didn’t get the XCoupe, but we got the Z4 and the other pile of styling disasters.
  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    That wouldn't make sense in the least- the 7 Series was updated just last year!

    Are you talking about another update, a new model, or just a complete redesign?

    Also, it's only been out since 2002. BMW isn't known for four-year life cycles.

    I hope that the new A8 is released in one to two years- I can't wait to see it with D'Silva's sexy new design language. (Think Nuvolari concept, LeMans, Pikes Peak)
  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    While the articles are interesting, the posts are hardly the kind of quality found around here.

    I completely agree with you! I'm happy to say that autospies does not accept my password, so I can't post there. I scan what those people are saying, and it's just bias, after bias, after bias.

    I think that, although awkward looking, the SC430's design ages well. I see a couple here and there, and every time I see it it still looks fresh. However, with the new "L-Finesse" designs, Lexus should be able to make it look edgier (and better), like the new IS and GS.

    (New ES350 is a major disappointment- for some reason I think the interior is the most boring Lexus interior to date)

    At least it's cheap (relatively).

    ;)
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    I never said it was a re-design.
    I'm saying from people I have talked to at BMW, the 2007 750 Li may be released in June.
    (As I was writing this, someone informed me that orders will be taken in September for October delivery, but who knows? It wouldn't be the first time a dealer may be misinforming a potential buyer.)
    Perhaps my use of the word "incredible" to describe the 7 series led you to this assumption.
    You'll have to excuse me, because speaking as a man of truth, I must wax ecstatic about BMW vehicles. It just comes naturally to me.

    As for the Lexus SC430, I saw it for a fraction of a second as I was passing by my neighbor's house.
    It turned my head.
    I'm sure if I looked at it long enough, I would find things to criticize.
    I have yet to find any vehicle that I am 100% in agreement with, style-wise, not even my sleek, aggressive, sexy 545 (although my 1969 Cougar with those sequentially-blinking tail-lights came close).
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    "(New ES350 is a major disappointment- for some reason I think the interior is the most boring Lexus interior to date)"

    Now thats interesting, because the ES350 follows the same L-Finesse interior design theme that started with the GS, IS, and now the LS and ES. While there's significantly less wood trim in the car compared to the previous ES300\330, I think the overall design is much more modern and generally more attractive.

    Also, the way Lexus integrated the audio\NAV controls in the previous car seemed like a last-minute hack job (its basically a big hole in the middle of the dash), very unlike their usually expertly done center stack layouts. The new car is 1000% superior in that regard.

    The old:
    http://www.autospies.com/images/uploads/medium/2005_ES330_21.jpg?undefined

    The new:
    http://shows.autospies.com/gallery/AS/es350-interior-vegas-lg/ee.jpg?undefined
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    I've never been an ES fan but I also find the new ES to be a bolder and a much better looking design from any of the past cars. The wood trim on the old car was too much LS-like and almost seemed out of place. Agree with Lexusguy that the nav is now a seamless fit as oposed to an awkward looking postage stamp paste on in the past model. Overall to me the car is a big improvement from the old design.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    :cry:

    But Merc nails a Lexus accessment (For once :P )! Good Job!

    It is a LS 2-door, with a trick top, and some extra bling inside.

    A clear success, in selling over 35000 in less than 3 years, and is still around while the XLR, quietly, quickly, is carried into Retirement Village, on a stretcher of GM incentives.

    Can't drive as poorly as everyone says, or else it wouldn't sell so much. People who jump on it's ride haven't driven it, period.

    I'm pretty sure it's against Corporate Policy for Lexus to produce a car without a
    silken ride on the majority of US roads.

    I'm expecting a more chiseled face when it is redesigned for '09. Sport pkg., por favor?

    The IS is better looking (by a margin) than the 3, but is still behind as a sports sedan (by a margin).

    The ES face doesn't work for me, but the design language is much crisper, and more masculine, if nothing else.

    And the LS takes a nice step forward, ahead of My Humps S-Class (eyesore the new commercial, they look like saddlebags in Silver!).

    Maybe it's like a Wild West motif? No?

    DrFill
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    Lexus IS passes 5k units a month for the first time., but still well behind the 3, which runs around 9k a month, model for model.

    Rav4 and Sienna are outselling CR-V and Odyssey, YTD.

    DrFill
  • I dont think Lexus should celebrate just yet. They might be excited at 5K/month, but these are low margin models.

    Lexus does not have product with 70K+ MSRP which can provide high margin bliss.

    Lexus is content to be a high volume, low margin luxury player. May be they find happiness and deep satisfaction with low margins and hate high-margin as it might result in too much happiness and uncontrollable emotional surge leading to acid reflux and heart attack.
  • rayngrayng Posts: 70
    IMHO, Toyota's pricing strategy is appropriate for the Lexus brand. As a much younger marque without much pedigree or tradition, a high-margin, low-volume pricing structure would simply not work. What does work is building a great car for a reasonable price. Overcharging for the sake of doing so only works on occassion for established marques with a great deal of racing pedigree producing very low volume automobiles.

    BTW, Lexus just set a new monthly sales record.
    http://autospies.com/article/index.asp?articleId=6945&categoryId=9

    So I think Lexus is doing pretty well--quite "content to be a high volume, low margin luxury player." ;)
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    Unless you have some new information, they have the highest volume in the US, and have more operating income than the Big 3 combined, so these stones you hold are, at best, miscast.

    And with the LS600h, they won't have any problems selling them, for sticker! And a V10 sportscar is coming.

    Toyota could buy, and sell, any maker, probably twice.

    Why don't you pick a genuine target, like the French, Paula Abdul, or Les Moonves?

    DrFill
  • There are no stones, only love and more love.

    Or may be stones made of wool.

    French are imploding, Paula is growing old/messy, les moonves, forget that.

    Lexus has high volume passion, not high margin.

    Mercedes: High margin, high volume Love.
    Lexus: low margin, high volume Love.

    Lexus does not want high-margin bliss, thats my reading!
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Toyota may not make money on a per-car basis like Porsche does, but who cares? In terms of pure net profit, Toyota rakes in $3+B a quarter, more than many automakers make all year. How profitable was the "high-margin" M-B last year?
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    Do you have any clue about how low a build cost Lexus has vs its competition? You are so off base on this that its hard to even comment back to. Lexus is the exact opposite of what you think. They are low volume and high - in fact very high - margin. Do some research before posting absurd comments. Attack Lexus on style and sport if you want to as that has some merit but on the business side attacking Toyota and Lexus is like being boastful on the Titanic - as it was sinking.

    Now if you want to visit the worst lux business in the US then talk Audi - low volume and low margin.
  • manegimanegi Posts: 110
    At an analyst meeting last month, Katsuaki Watanabe, the CEO of Toyota, sounded apologetic for the "low profitabilty" due to "huge investment in new technologies and production capacity" - He said that once this peaks in the next one two years, the margins will improve.

    So current profitability of Toyota is not the internal target - It is way higher.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    They are expensing rather than capitalizing the new R&D fuel technology. This has been known for a long time now and it has nothing to do with margin per car. There are probably a number of reasons for this decision including conservative accounting but possibly also PR. The latter is simple - Toyota's $13bln of profitablility would be around $17-18 bln if you adjust for these expenses. What does the rest of the industry that is profitable earn - maybe half of that. Sometimes it's good PR to make yourself underperform your real numbers. It's an easy adjustment for Wall street as the multiple goes up to compensate for the conservative accounting. On top of that your future profitability is greatly improved as you have little depreciation of the new technology.
  • Please dont burn with anger. Let me re-phrase. If Lexus prices its products head-to-head with mercedes and keeps a low build cost like you said then it will make better business sense.
    No one wants to attack Lexus/Toyota. We all want to Love.

    Lexus is in line with what I think, not opposite. Because, we both love margins. Only problem is Lexus needs to get more ambitious than just cutting costs and improving quality.

    They should shun cut-rate pricing and compete head-to-head with Sultans of Sindelfingen.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    A clear success (the SC), in selling over 35000 in less than 3 years, and is still around while the XLR, quietly, quickly, is carried into Retirement Village, on a stretcher of GM incentives.

    Interesting that you would compare to the XLR of all things. I guess if you compare a loser to a bigger loser it makes the first loser look good? ;)

    The IS is better looking (by a margin) than the 3

    In your dreams. The IS looks decent, but, sorry, it's no 3. No way.

    TagMan
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