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High End Luxury Cars

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  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Perhaps the 335i coupe is next for 2 years and then a BMW diesel after that.
    It's a tough life, but someones' got to do it!


    What a great idea! Who could find fault with that?

    TagMan
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Well if the BMW diesels get here soon enough, I may have to bypass the 335i coupe.

    Across the pond they have raved about the 335id coupe with the caveat that a new and more powerful BMW diesel coupe is due next year!

    The only time I need AWD down here is after my kitchen floor tile has been washed and I lose my traction.

    T..I..M..B..E..R...!!!
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 6,065
    Wrong. The point of the test was to give the people time to live with these cars for a couple of years. Car owners can't immediately tell how well the car performs until they have owned it for a few years. The actual survey was done 1 year ago. If you want to predict the future, look at the past.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    If you want to predict the future, look at the past.

    True, houdini... but, as you know, only to a limited degree when it comes to cars and certain technology. The innovations of technology and their relationship to automobiles is at an all-time high and will probably go even further, thus creating a situation where there is little to no previous footprints.

    Trends, however, do seem to rise above the other ever-changing factors, and we can, therefore extrapolate a general sense of which brands ought to do well and which ones will more likely have issues.

    BTW, I do appreciate the info, and your efforts to post it.

    I just always take those studies with a big grain of salt, as you probably already know. I cancelled my subscription to CR, for example, long ago.

    TagMan
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Edmunds has caught the IS-F 500 testing at the Nurburgring. According to them, it has 425hp, the 8-speed auto will be the only transmission, and the price is supposed to be around $50K. As we've suspected, it seems they are aiming at the C63 rather than directly at the M3, which I'm sure will have a MT.

    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/GeneralFuture/articleId=118182?tid=edmunds.- il.home.photopanel..1.*
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Edmunds has caught the IS-F 500 testing at the Nurburgring. According to them, it has 425hp, the 8-speed auto will be the only transmission, and the price is supposed to be around $50K. As we've suspected, it seems they are aiming at the C63 rather than directly at the M3, which I'm sure will have a MT.

    A little off-topic, but interesting. The other little tidbit I picked up from the spy video was that the 8-speed will have paddle shifters. A small percentage may prefer that over the M3's stick, but the M3 ought to be safe, IMO.

    TagMan
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Well $50k isn't bad, but an 8 speed auto tranny? And that's it?
    They won't be able to compete with that exclusively in the high-performance arena, IMO.
    All serious performance vehicles I know of may offer an auto tranny to the pretenders, but always offer a great manual tranny to the serious drivers.
    Wonder why they are playing it safe?
    Disappointing.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Houdini,

    with all due respect these results merely confirm what we all already know. . Lexus has consistently won consumer satisfaction surveys for almost 17 years by not one surveyor but various surveryors like JD Powers, Consumrers Report, Strategic Vision and last but not least Top Gear.

    Kudos for Lexus!

    I knew these results for years and chose a BMW instead. Why?
    Because I dont need a customer survey to tell me what car will satisfy me. In fact I am most happy being a auto survey contrarian and so far cant imagine driving any other car then what I am driving today.

    Currently I need a new fridge and I will be looking at surveys. In the case of fridges my happiness will be determined by surveys.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Perhaps the 335i coupe is next for 2 years and then a BMW diesel after that.

    How about a 335i sedan?

    Let us do a swap deal. Your BMW 550i for my BMW 335i?
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    All serious performance vehicles I know of may offer an auto tranny to the pretenders, but always offer a great manual tranny to the serious drivers.

    By that definition, AMG vehicles are not "serious performance vehicles". So, the IS-F will have some company.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    Not enough commercials in mind to even debate that, but I do know Lexus makes the most annoying, irritating, shallowest, lamest holiday commercials in the business.

    You forgot wildly successful!

    At this point, if Lexus sold less than 35k this month, it would be a surprise.

    I guess 30-35k this month, and 350k this year are rather lame and shallow luxury car buyers.

    Do you think Audi, BMW, and Mercedes need to work on being just that lame? And shallow?

    Audi commercials. Those are lame! :lemon:

    Success is never lame. Unless it gets too predictable. Than Lexus may indeed be truly lame. I guess I see your point. ;)

    DrFill
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    I am a perfect candidate for the coupe because I have no kids living at home. Besides, it is, IMO, the coolest looking BMW at the present time. Even known Bangle-bashers who post here have been moonlighting ( read: salivating) on the 335i thread and they ain't talkin' sedan.

    If you had the coupe, I would indeed be interested. I do miss the dynamics of the incomparable 3-Series. The 545i is nice, but I do believe I would find the 335i coupe entirely more satisfying.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    If you had the coupe, I would indeed be interested. I do miss the dynamics of the incomparable 3-Series.

    That is why my wife is driving the 5 series wagon. I prefer smaller cars and the 3 series is a perfect size for my family. My kids are still young and my wife is petit and I am 5 '9 ( 5'10 if you include my pointy hair). :shades:
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Correct. A performance vehicle can only be taken seriously by true enthusiasts if it is offered with a manual transmission.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Well I can't quite imagine you with pointy hair :surprise: , but I do miss my 3 Series.

    The only fly in the ointment would be if my wife hounds me to death to get the new MDX instead, but I intend to put up a solid wall of resistance. Maybe it will work this time...for the first time. :sick:
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 6,065
    Just passing along info Dewey. It wasn't necessarily meant for you. If you have no interest then I would suggest that you ignore it.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Automatic transmissions are for pretenders.

    Oh c'mon Howard when I was a younger (just a few months ago) I used to preach those very same words above. But I can assure you if you ever test drive a car with a DSG tranny you may end up changing your mind real fast.

    I do row my own gears myself but I will not go so far as to call every auto tranny driver a pretender.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Just passing along info Dewey. It wasn't necessarily meant for you. If you have no interest then I would suggest that you ignore it.

    Oops I forgot-- what info are you referring to again? :P
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    My remarks were really directed at the high-end performance cars, such as the Porsche 911. I just can't see compromising that great performance with a tiptronic.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    As Tagman found out a Tiptronic Porsche will make a potential buyer look elsewhere. Fortunately his doctor was reasonable and allowed him to have a stick. Those are the kind of prescriptions I love.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    A good move. Once you enter the sports car realm, I do believe a manual is mandatory.

    For an every day driver, the way many BMW's are used, I have no problem with the steptronic. It's a practical decision.

    I wouldn't expect anyone to purchase a 911 for crawling along in bumper to bumper rush hour traffic.

    The word "pretender" was really meant to classify drivers who buy high-end sports cars and compromise them with automatic transmissions. Sorry for not being clearer.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    Definition: Any car with a high-performance engine that CANNOT be mated to a manual transmission.

    Given the "advancements" of our society, the automatic transmission is not only expected, even on sports cars, but a mandatory option, to make a business case for production budgets.

    It is when they are THE ONLY option, that is when you no longer have a sports car, you have a neutered race house.

    Power is nothing without control.

    DSG is a fine option, but cannot replace a manual. You are still relinguishing control of the vehicle.

    As we get older, we are more willing to give up control for convenience, in the car, at home, whatever.

    I'm not whipped yet, at home, or by Father Time.

    People under-35 aren't buying IS-F, or other such vehicles. Those who've reached "The 2nd Plateau", married, with kids, will sell out to a more convenient option.

    How much fun is a fast car with an automatic? I haven't met one yet that would match the intrique of a manual. EVERY CAR is more enjoyable with a manual, with a few exceptions (due to a poorly made clutch/gearbox). EVERY CAR is more convenient with an automatic.

    Everyone who drives a Corvette with slush is a poseur. Period! If you can't/won't drive the car, get something that you can handle.

    I have no respect for the IS-F, C63, or any other poseurmobile without a real transmission for performance. It is a total waste of an drivetrain. I don't see the point, except to court those who can't/won't drive. Which is fine, but don't alienate the market for that vehicle at the same time.

    DrFill
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    What makes this chart most interesting is the lack of customer retention for Infiniti which happens to be the lowest among the luxury bunch. Jaguar has a lousy customer retention level too. Audi, Porsche, Acura, Land Rover are below average.

    Toyota knocked Lexus off its number one position. BMW and MB have pretty good customer retention levels.

    image
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    EVERY CAR is more enjoyable with a manual, with a few exceptions (due to a poorly made clutch/gearbox). EVERY CAR is more convenient with an automatic.

    EVERY CAR except a HELC sedan! :P
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    HELC aren't offered with a manual, so they are excluded.

    DrFill
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 6,065
    Dewey, with all due respect this survey merely confirms what we all already knew...

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    That Toyota/Honda/Lexus doiminate the top 3?

    I am surprised Infiniti, Audi, Chrysler, and VW are so poor. Reliability has been a problem at VW/Audi. Infiniti has no real excuse. Chrysler makes good stuff, and many are very durable vehicles.

    DrFill
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Thanks for the chart. A very good showing by BMW, just behind Japans's big 3.

    And to think I was just about to waste a day test driving Isuzus!
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I think you mean test driving Isuzu. There's only one left. :)

    It technically isn't Japan's big three, only the biggest two. Nissan is just average. I'm very surprised that Honda did so well, while Acura stunk up the place. I think the fact that the TL has been their only strong car in the last two years or so probably has a lot to do with that.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Here’s Ward's 10 Best Engines for 2007 at a glance (vehicle tested in parenthesis):

    Audi AG 2L turbocharged DOHC I-4 (Audi A3)
    BMW AG 3L DOHC I-6 (Z4 3.0si)
    BMW AG 3L turbocharged DOHC I-6 (335i)
    DaimlerChrysler AG 3L DOHC V-6 turbodiesel (Mercedes-Benz E320 Bluetec/Jeep Grand Cherokee CRD)
    DaimlerChrysler AG Hemi 5.7L OHV V-8 (Chrysler 300C)
    Ford Motor Co. Duratec 35 3.5L DOHC V-6 (Ford Edge/Lincoln MKX)
    Ford Motor Co. 4.6L SOHC V-8 (Mustang GT/Mustang Shelby GT)
    Mazda Motor Corp. 2.3L DISI turbocharged DOHC I-4 (Mazdaspeed3)
    Nissan Motor Co. Ltd. 3.5L DOHC V-6 (Infiniti G35)
    Toyota Motor Corp. 3.5L DOHC V-6 (Lexus IS 350)

    Do you notice the lack of HELC engines on the list?

    The two cars that are in my garage are equipped with two different engines on the list: A BMW 3.0L twin turbo i6 (BMW335i) and a BMW 3.0L i6(BMW 530xi Touring). I guess that coincidence is all due to my very good taste in fine cars. :shades:
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