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High End Luxury Cars

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  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,873
    Both BMW and Lexus have great engines. It's in all the other things that Lexus outshines BMW.

    There is no advantage if the engine lasts 10 years and all the other parts on a BMW wear out or break in 3 years. Why do you think HP leases BMW's for the short term?

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    all the other parts on a BMW wear out or break in 3 years.

    How can anyone possibly have a rational discussion with you when that kind of a totally ridiculous statement is made. Do you actually believe that? No... you know better... I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. In that case, you are intentionally poking at dewey, d-man (edited), and hpowders, our primary resident BMW drivers... and for what reason?

    Either way, it's either an ignorant statement... or one to provoke and ignite. Or am I missing something?

    BTW, hpowders intends to lease short term to look forward to getting a newer model sooner rather than later. It's a great idea, IMO. Sure, the risks of maintenance with ANY car increase with age, but ALL PARTS IN THREE YEARS? Total BS!

    TagMan
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    My BMW is 3 1/2 years old and I don't lease. Real men go the distance with BMWs and don't lease. ;-)
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,873
    Let's just talk about cars and drop the name calling, OK? And if someone disagrees with you there is no need to take it as a personal attack. I will assume it is the medication talking and give you the benefit of the doubt here.

    We all use a little hyperbole here to make our points so of course not ALL parts in 3 years will wear out. But we all know that maintaining a BMW is an expensive proposition. And IMO they are overpriced to begin with. So, no matter how much you shout in caps and stomp your feet, I still disagree with your assessment.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    We all use a little hyperbole here to make our points so of course not ALL parts in 3 years will wear out.

    Ahh, now the truth. Thank you. Another case of mea culpa. Hmmm... hyperbole, eh?

    TagMan
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    I had my first LS460 road sighting last night. I thought it looked pretty decent at night. Came up on it from the rear. It actually looks less slab-sided at night because the night light reveals some shape in the sides. Houdini, are you getting one? When?
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    I usually don't comment on ridiculous posts.
    Seems a few of them have just popped up.
    Your right on the money post #22019 is one of the few things making any sense here lately. You and I know my post was written in very clear English. How it could be so misconstrued is a mystery.

    I guess some folks are just sore that their favorites didn't pop up on the great Automobile Magazine's coveted All-Star list; to be specific: the LS460 and totally incompetent GS450h.

    PS- By the way, an excellent and well-rounded list consisting mostly of fun to drive vehicles in all price categories. One of the best lists I have seen in quite a while.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    XC90 SE Sport starts 36K GBP or 72K USD
    XC90 Executive starting 46K GBP or 90K USD to 100K+ for the V8 edition - WOW


    You cannot just use the exchange rate to compare prices in the UK to prices here in the states. Its the same with Canadian car prices. A Nissan 350Z here is around $32K. There its 28K GBP. Our A4 3.2 Quattro is 37K, there its 30K GBP. I don't know what new equipment these Volvos have over the XC90 V8 we already have, but I can absolutely guarantee you that they will not sell a $90K car here in the next 20 years.
  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    It'll be fun watching you change your mind a couple hundred times before making the final decision.

    Ha, that's what's been happening to me!

    I have [at least] a good two years until I get rid of my baby S4, but this is going to be the hardest decision I've ever had to make, car-wise. The S4 was a no-brainer- the only thing I had to choose was a body style. But now...? Between the Carrera/Carrera S Cabriolet, new XKR convertible, CL550 with AMG bodykit (if I can bring myself to get a coupe), the possible one-year-old AM V8 Roadster (poser car, I know), a 650ci, and maybe even an SL550, there's so many tempting companies trying to pry me from my $100,000! Obviously, this is the most self-indulgent car purchase I will make in a long time, so I have to choose wisely.

    I'm glad I have another two to three years to decide, while enjoying the Cabriolet along the way.

    ;)

    '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet • '04 Lexus RX330
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    Again, everyone has a big month in December. We already know Lexus outsells BMW and Mercedes during the year so why would Dec be any different? Now would be a good time to fall back on sales numbers though seeing as though Lexus new LS didn't make the Automobile Magazine's All-Stars list.

    Now would be a good time? You just made my point. Lexus sales rock ALL THE TIME! You act like I just came up with that as a fall-back position, when that's my main point, always and forever.

    The commercial runs because the commercial sells. It's 50 times more successful than anything Mercedes is doing.

    So when Mercedes comes up with ONE DECENT commercial, this decade, then do a commentary on how lame Lexus commercials are.

    No one does more forgettable commercials than Mercedes. Let's look up the word "lame" in the dictionary, and place it on the correct ad campaign.

    If you, and everyone else, are spending this much energy commenting on it, while Lexus is selling BIG with it, you're probably using the wrong word. :surprise:

    Any description of them is inaccurate if the word "successful" is not included. ;)

    Thank you.

    DrFill
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    Eye sore another one of Mercedes masterpieces right now during "Rainman"!

    A faint light shines through some trees, than over a small hill come 10 Mercedes vehicles, in silver, driving two-by-two, with a Red SL55 alone behind then, with a Santa track played in the background.

    And that's the commercial?

    Should I get the Mapquest for local Benz dealers, or the Milk of Magnesia?

    Milk of Amnesia? :sick:

    DrFill
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    The commercial runs because the commercial sells. It's 50 times more successful than anything Mercedes is doing.

    Doc, what's with the "hyperbole"?. "50 times more successful" is entirely unrealistic. As we finally agreed yesterday, it is indeed successful... just leave it at that for goodness sakes. You were more credible then. Now you sound... well, you know.

    The facts are that Lexus December sales average an increase of 14%. Some other HELC manufacturers also see increases in December, so the extra few percentage points for Lexus aren't ANYTHING like you are suggesting.

    Also, for your information, Infiniti has reported a 25% increase in traffic and sales this December, almost twice that of the Lexus average... so before you go rushing for those pom-poms, consider the facts.

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    "Eye sore another one of Mercedes masterpieces"...

    Doc, BTW, I forgot to compliment you on your clever use of words there on that post. No matter what, it seems you always have your sense of humor, and that's something I appreciate and will always have respect for.

    TagMan
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    But I'd prefer Merc to clean up his own mess when it comes to dis. ;)

    When Lexus started this commercial campaign, in 2000, it set a record for best month ever.

    And Merc seems to have a problem showing respect, and giving credit when it is due. Especially since Lexus has taught it's peers lessons in advertising, and Mercedes has learned nothing about it in the 17 years class has been in session.

    If you listen to Merc, the Lexus commercial has no merit. When in fact his legendary company still can't script 30 seconds worth watching, going back over the last decade or two?

    You don't have such issues, to your eternal credit. :)

    I'd ask you which commercial is truly lame, but I wouldn't subject you to the Mercedes commercial. That ain't right! :(

    DrFill
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    A 180 degree change in decision regarding BMW diesels in just two weeks? During Nov. 22nd BMW had no diesel plans for the USA and in Dec. 7th BMW has diesel plans for USA. Something must be going on behind the scenes at Munich?

    Very little is certain about the BMW diesels that will sell in our continent by 2008 But what is for certain is that BMW will not be using MB Blutec technology and instead they will develop their own urea based technology to scrub nitrogen emissions.

    Fortunately for Honda their diesels do not require urea technology since their cars will be able to self-generate enough ammononia to reduce nitrogen to satisfy the new stringent emissions regulations.

    Unlike Honda's 2.2L diesels, luxury German diesels will require urea injections. Why? Because unfortunatley larger diesel engines generate a higher level of nitrogen and self-generated ammonia will not be enough to reduce their higher levels of nitrogen. So by necessity urea injections will supplement self-generated ammonia among the German luxury marques.

    If Honda introduces diesels with more displacement(V6 engines) then it is almost with certainty that they also will will be using similar urea technology as the Germans.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Yes, indeed.

    And I have no problem with the urea system as it is described. Checking the oil level is likely more of a concern, so the urea is no big deal to me. The tank will get topped up at regular maintenance intervals. Big deal. The urea injection system will be fine and those engines will be terrific.

    As far as BMW goes, regardless of the publicity or lack thereof, I'll bet serious green that they will indeed have themselves a good diesel competitor.

    TagMan
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    By that time every other part on the car would have had to be replaced 4 or 5 times. Talk about a money pit!

    The words of someone who never experienced owning a BMW and never will own a BMW.

    I hate spending money and I owned a BMW for eight years with minimum maintenance/repair costs. Houdini I think you are mixing up BMW with Ferrari. Unfortunately BMWs are not as exotic as Ferarris but here is an interesting article about the maintenance/depreciation costs involved with owning a Ferrari 550 Maranello

    Ferarri
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Checking the oil level is likely more of a concern, so the urea is no big deal to me. The tank will get topped up at regular maintenance intervals. Big deal. The urea injection system will be fine and those engines will be terrific.

    Likewise! I am very interested in a future diesel. With regular maintenance there will no major urea bladder issues.

    So what happens if a owner ignores low urea levels? The new and upcoming diesel Land Rover(I dont know if it will sell on our shores?) will cut the revs and horsepower of its 3.6L engine to a level in which it can self-generate enough ammonia without the assistance of urea injections. Definitely an inconvenience but that inconvenience would be a non-issue if an owner does regular maintenance on his Land Rover.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    You cannot just use the exchange rate to compare prices in the UK to prices here in the states. Its the same with Canadian car prices.

    British car prices make Canadian prices look like bargains and their gas prices are at least double of ours. On top of that if you are in London you end up paying a hefty toll for driving in the city. And good luck finding parking and if you do find parking be prepared to pay an arm and a leg for that priviledge :sick:

    If I lived in the UK I would be doing more bicycling and jogging than car driving.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    If you drive a scooter or a hybrid, you can get out of the congestion charges. On the other hand, if you drive an SUV, you're royally screwed.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Now would be a good time? You just made my point. Lexus sales rock ALL THE TIME! You act like I just came up with that as a fall-back position, when that's my main point, always and forever.

    I love how you never, ever have a point that anyone sees and then claim that someone else made it for your. Again, you miss the point. You fall back on sales because your ranting on the LS can no longer be backed up with anything. Reverting back to something as tired as Lexus' sales is just lame. Feel free to talk about sales all you like. Who cares.

    The commercial runs because the commercial sells. It's 50 times more successful than anything Mercedes is doing.

    Total nonsense to say the least. You're saying that Lexus' lame, pathetic commercials are more successful than Mercedes' because Lexus sells more cars in December than Mercedes does right? Uh...Hello earth to Doc....Lexus sells more than Mercedes does anyway, it isn't because of some shallow commercials.

    So when Mercedes comes up with ONE DECENT commercial, this decade, then do a commentary on how lame Lexus commercials are.

    Total lack of credibility here Doc. If you think that Lexus' lame commercials with bows tied on top of those unsightly cars are better than Mercedes commercials for the S or CL or the "Race" commercial you must be living on Lexus koolaid. MB Commercials

    No one does more forgettable commercials than Mercedes. Let's look up the word "lame" in the dictionary, and place it on the correct ad campaign.

    Here is the difference between Lexus and Mercedes. Mercedes doesn't need a commercial to sell their cars, Lexus does. The Mercedes name alone sells their cars and only names that plucked out of the thin air during a Toyota board meeting need the heavier advertising to get their name out there.

    If this about Mercedes' commercials being so forgettable were true then Lexus folks like LG wouldn't have clearly stated that MB has done some good ads. Poof, another one-man theory gone. Total and utter BS doc and you know it to try and sit here and say MB has never made a decent or memorable commercial.

    If you, and everyone else, are spending this much energy commenting on it, while Lexus is selling BIG with it, you're probably using the wrong word.

    You seem to think that just because something is popular that it is great. It is mentioned because the ads are stupid and their air a jillion times a day. Kinda like those head on commercials.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Drunk on koolaid to write anything like that. It isn't worth debating when you see things like that.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    And Merc seems to have a problem showing respect, and giving credit when it is due. Especially since Lexus has taught it's peers lessons in advertising, and Mercedes has learned nothing about it in the 17 years class has been in session.

    There is no respect to be given. Lexus December commercials usually show some twit running out to unwrap a huge bow on a new Lexus. Where is the lesson or innovation for others to follow there? Jaguar does the same thing, but it is far more tastefully done. There is absolutely nothing for any brand to learn Lexus' sorry ads. Period.

    Again, where is the proof that anyone has even tried to duplicate, mimic, or be like Lexus when it comes to these ads? Where?

    A shiny new car with a bow on top of it during the month of December takes absolutely ZERO brain power to come up with. Lexus is supposed to get some type of respect or special mention for this? A joke at best.

    If you listen to Merc, the Lexus commercial has no merit. When in fact his legendary company still can't script 30 seconds worth watching, going back over the last decade or two?

    Darn right it doesn't. Again, why don't you take a look at the annoying commercials thread on the News the Views side of the house. Plenty of mention about Lexus there December to forget ads, last I checked I saw nothing about Mercedes. Mercedes hasn't had a single ad in 20 years worth anything, only the most jaded Lexus fan would come up with that.

    M
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    I am going to hearken back to one of Tagman’s posts on this. In spite of what any of us thinks of commercials there are reasons why they succeed or not, and the reasons are not always readily apparent, not even to the professionals who create them.

    Quite often, ads that seem lame are very successful and others that appear to be clever, slick or entertaining are not. But one thing is for sure. Repetition is most instrumental in successful advertising. Toyota/Lexus seems to put a lot into this and on this level it would seem that they are successful.

    I don’t like their ads either but I do believe they work due to, if nothing else, the amount of hits. Another thing, the December to Remember campaign is heavily branded at this point and branding is everything in advertising. Also, it has a warm and fuzzy family quality that I would think gets considerable mileage. Warm and fuzzy works.

    For the record, I think most car ads are lame, but too often we are merely looking to be entertained by them and the ultimate goal is not entertainment. In any event we really can't compare a company's abilities to make product with their abilities to market and advertise. I guess it's fun to do it, but I'm not sure how far we'll get because I've spent a good part of my life listening to marketers themselves argue about advertising, this after poring over piles of market research. The funniest part is watching them scratch their heads when ads test gangbusters then flop in reality.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    "Mercedes doesn't need a commercial to sell their cars, Lexus does."

    I plan on sending a letter off to Sony Corporate requesting if in their next generation of TV's, they can install a filtering device to block certain commercials from being seen when programming key words, such as "Lexus", "December To Remember" and "hybrid"; and which will also be capable of turning up the volume for commercials with key words, "BMW", "Mercedes Benz", "Porsche", "diesel" and "two year lease."
    We'll see what happens.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,873
    Thank you d man for the definitive post on car commercials. Yes, they are all lame, but some are very effective. Period.

    Doc, I would have to agree with Merc here and with a little thought you would too. Lexus sells better than Mercedes in spite of their lame commercials. Must be pretty good cars, eh?

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,873
    Seems that most of the BMW 3 series that I see on the road are driven by....young women. I wonder if demographics would bear that out? About the only auto you see driven more by women seems to be small, expensive, convertibles or big SUVs. They love those things.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    I do believe too much has been made of all the ads for this forum. They are not magic wands used in certain months that force people to purchase a Lexus, nor are they going to stop someone from purchasing a Mercedes.

    Advertising is persuasive, of course, but something very important needs to be said here, IMO.

    There is a difference between MAKING cars and MARKETING cars.

    Sometimes they go hand-in-hand, and sometimes they can be independent from one another. For example, cars that are made poorly might be marketed poorly, cars that are made poorly might be marketed well. And, of course, cars that are made well might also be marketed well, and cars that are made well might be marketed poorly.

    Given these combination, we can (hopefully) more appropriately see the truth of how they apply to the real world.

    It is foolish to apply credit where it doesn't belong or to remove credit where it does. A great car might have a terrible ad campaign, and to suggest that those terrible ads might have anything whatsoever to do with the car or brand of car itself is ludicrous.

    Taking credit for the making great cars when there is in fact only great marketing is equally absurd.

    So, I hope this helps somehow and that my words of wisdom (or lack thereof) ;) make some sense.

    :)

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Dewey - thanks for that reality check on the Ferrari's maintenance.

    I was a young single man when I had made a decent business decision that hit some good paydirt and I was no big investor or anything, and being crazy about cars all my life... I bought a Ferrari. Hah! I was in for a rude awakening alright.

    After completing the first maintenance, I got the shock of my life when the bill was thousands of dollars! Usually nowadays there is sufficient paperwork to estimate the likely cost of service before it is done. Back then, I guess that wasn't the case.

    Anyway, I met my wife when I owned the car... so she obviously married me for the car... and not my charming good looks (lol) ... but I decided to get rid of the Ferrari. No way I wanted anything to do with that kind of maintenance costs.

    As it turns out, she has cost me more a month than that Ferrari ever could have! ;) (And worth it, of course!)

    TagMan
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Unfortunately BMWs are not as exotic as Ferarris but here is an interesting article about the maintenance/depreciation costs involved with owning a Ferrari 550 Maranello

    Ouch. If I was going to spend that kind of money on a car, I would expect it to be better built than a car costing 1\10 as much, not worse. To date, I think 911s and the Acura NSX are the only exotics that can be driven regularly without $10K a month in repairs. The Lexus GT500 will probably be another car on that list.
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