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High End Luxury Cars

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  • benzsterbenzster Posts: 152
    It STINKS!
    Diesel is less refined and therefore oilier. Plus with the sulfur content, it just smells and is hard to wash off your hands.
    I have yet to see mitts. Nice touch.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    How about the tri turbo MB diesel? That is if you wanted a safer, better handling, more stylish, vehicle with better gas mileage and more power?
    Oh wait, we already have an E320 with 369 fpt at 1800 rpm, 0-60 in 6.6sec, and range of over 700 miles on a tank of fuel. 27/37 mpg. Is the point of the Lexus vehicle mileage?


    The point of the LS600h is NOT just about vehicle mileage. Its the entire package - a LWB, Hybrid, AWD, car with a V12-like performance, at a v6-like fuel efficiency, straight-line performance will be sub-5s 0-60, with a top speed exceeding 150mph. Of course, priced at just under $100K, it will be cheaper than the targeted competition (S600) by another $10-15K. This car then gives Lexus a true high-end luxury sedan that moves the "brand" further upstream into the exclusive and rarefied HELM range - the Bentleys, Maybach, S600, etc... club. That is what the LS600h provides for the Lexus brand - at least, that's my reading of it.
  • volvomaxvolvomax Posts: 5,274
    More importantly, it gives the Lexus owner the appearance of being environmentally conscious.
    "Look, I drive a hybrid".
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    Exactly... oac: How could you not associate Audi with AWD? That is their calling card, no question. AWD for the A8, in particular, absolutely is what sets itself apart from its competition.

    Reason is as provided by ljflx... AWD is less important to more than 50% of the buying public here in the US. I live in So Cal and have a 4WD SUV for those few times of inclement weather... Subaru has had AWD like forever, that is their calling card as well...

    Merc says that people are noticing and praising Audi for its interior quality and technology innovations. I'd like to see the sampling of the buying public that agrees with that. Edmunds is a very small, narrow, viewpoint of the whole market. Most of us are car junkies.... The real world buyers are nothing like us... So I suspect Audi's interior quality and technology hasn't helped it much, but with the VW albatross on Audi's neck, little wonder it has had problem gaining traction (no pun intended) here in the NA market. It may well be too late for Audi to gain any respect, unless Lexus stumbles badly, and Acura and Infiniti fall off the face of the earth. Audi, totally overshadowed by its higher brand German counterparts...
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    The A8, with no DNA or calliing card?

    HMMM? Let's see. The A8 has the best finished interior in it's class hands down and standard(across the line) AWD, not just because BMW and M-B are knocking on the door of AWD. Those are just a few of the perks that separates itself from the bigger volume cars.

    True, the Audi/VW connection couldn't be worse, for it's U.S. line-up anyway. VW's as of late quality and reliabilty and customer service has slipped way down. But we can't use this as an excuse.

    For example, take a look at Ford. With all of the troubling problems in Dearborn, one would think that the PAG would be in serious limbo. Not so the case, in fact LR keeps breaking M-2-M sales records, and Volvo has so many new products in the pipeline, especially the awesome new C70 Convertible that it seems that these companies know how to separate themselves from the gruesome NA front.

    But that's not to say that all of the VW-linked brands are toast. Lambo is once again having fantastic year, and need I even say Bentley, with a 3 year wait for Flying Spurs and still 1 year wait for Conti GT's and convertible on the way.

    Audi needs a new direction, a fresh breath of air. It may be coming sooner than we know. The R8 sports coupe is sure to spark some desire and the newly released Q5/Q7 will at least drag more suburban families in than before with only the allroad and A6 Avant to offer as utility vehicles before.

    They're on the right track, let's not write them off just yet.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    It was brand new, with paper tags. Anthracite color. I drove next to it for a good stretch. Male driver.

    This is the best facelift Lexus has done since the '98 LS!

    Clear lens for the headlights. More chrome in the grille, with new bars. New taillights. Bright chrome exhaust finishers.

    That's a nice car! Maybe not SL-nice, but not a "Hard Sell" either! The roll bars is an oversight, doh. :blush:

    DrFill
  • volvomaxvolvomax Posts: 5,274
    Audi has come a long way since the late 80's when they almost died in the US.

    What has hurt Audi is the lack of a calling card or a trait that the public can identify with.
    Brand image is a powerful thing in this market. Lexus has their relentless pursuit of perfection, BMW has the ultimate driving machine schtick and M-B has a century of engineering. Volvo has safety etc.
    That isn't to say that there aren't cars out there as safe as Volvo, or as well built as Lexus or as "ultimate" as BMW, but luxury buyers already has pre-concieved notions that automakers strive to reinforce.
    Sadly, Audi really doesn't have any such preconcieved notions.
    Most people aren't aware of the history of Audi, of the epic battles between Auto Union and Benz in the 30's when Audi's were as advanced as anything on earth.
    That new grille on the Audi's is a tribute to the Auto Union heritage but most people don't know that. It isn't as readily apparant as the bimmer kidney grille or the Volvo diagonal or the M-B grille and star.
    Public perception is a very hard thing to change. It is why cars like the VW Phaeton fail.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    We've had this line of discussion before, its not going to work. You wont convince anyone that the ES is a bargain E-class or 5-series. Lexus is able to load up the ES with state-of-the-art gadgets while keeping its price very low thanks to its close ties with the Camry. Give the ES a unique platform and RWD\AWD like the competition, and you can jack the price up a healthy $10K. Come to think of it, Lexus has a car like that. Its called the GS300.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    There are quite a few reasons as to why Audi, and the A8 dont have a bigger following in the states. I think one of the A8's biggest problems is the previous A8. The last car was frankly lousy. It looked and drove dull as dishwater. The interior, the new car's best feature, was a copy and paste from the A4, enlarged to 400% size. It was an average car at best, and simply invisible in the segment.

    Audi has only had a car worth looking at in the segment for two years, and they have to go up against the S, 7, and LS. That's going to be difficult, and its going to take time, especially considering that, as has already been pointed out in several post, the 4-rings badge just doesnt mean anything to anyone. The badge on a $70K+ car is very important, especially in the US, and Audi's carries zero weight behind it.
  • psychdocpsychdoc Posts: 147
    Th new ES is a better car than the GS in pretty much every respect. More HP, more amenities and, perhaps most importantly, much more roomy, especially in the back seat. The only thing is lacks is awd and frankly, I'll take fwd any day as it cuts down on the inefficiencies of awd systems. For the 3 days a year there is actually snow in the road here in NY, I'll just drive really carefully.
    I've driven both the BMW 5 and the M-B E and I'll take the new ES any day. Throw in price as a variable and the comparisons get downright ridiculous.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Yeah. I saw one in silver when I passed my neighbors' the other day and I thought it was quite striking. I did not get a chance to look at it real closely, however.

    Since I have heard several times that the SC430 handles much like the LS, I would rather put this kind of cash to better use and get the Porsche Boxster.

    Lexus really just doesn't get it.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Actually, they do get it. The car sells quite well for what it is, but for people like you and me the Cayman and many others are the real deal.

    Did you see Freddie 3-putt from 3 feet with the belly putter and blow the Masters? He blew 6 strokes on short putts. Bloody shame.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Yeah but the Cayman is a hardtop isn't it?
    Not to change the subject but TW missed quite a few putts that were usually automatic for him. Looks like PM stole the tournament.
    I wish the PGA would ban those ridiculous belly putters. If I used one, I would be laughed off my course.
    And Freddy did make $315,700 for his trouble, but I'm sure he really didn't need the money.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Yeah, I remember TW once 4-putt from 3 feet at Bay Hill. That was Phil's best round of his career.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Yes. It was the most consistent round Phil has ever played in a major. He really did play great, but if TW made half of those putts he usually makes...

    Watch for other PGA players switching to 2 drivers like Phil, as well as Nike and Callaway trying to sell the poor schnook average golfer a bill of goods that he needs two $400 drivers in his bag!
  • LOL! 400% larger,

    The A8 is only 12% longer, 8% wider and 3% taller than A4. How come the interior is 400% enlarged?

    Have you taken high-school math yet?

    2+2 = 4 and square root of three = 1.73 ;)
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    I have ever read a review on any Audi vehicle that says anything really enthusiastic about these vehicles save for their handsome interiors which are admittedly the best in their respective classes.
    Hence, I have no motivation to go check any of them out since there seems to always be better alternatives out there.
    Apparently, many other Americans feel the same way,
  • Your comments make sense. To be honest, Lexus should have been GS much more sexier and agile and powerful and sophisticated so it could sell 50,000 + cars instead of 20-25K that it manages on an average every year.

    Selling 60-70K cars with ES badge with large clumsy overhangs for $33K will not be good for long term passions. The ES is one model which I think Lexus should stop making and focus on increasing the sales of IS, now that it has a good product in hand.

    Increasing IS and GS sales with more powerful engines and better styling will surely compensate for loss in ES sales to some extent.

    Anyway, love is all around and we all might have our own opinions. :P
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,662
    Everyone is still waiting to see PM and TW head to head in the final round. May happpen next time. Let's hope so. Tiger had his chances but his short game let him down. I felt bad for Fred - particularly on that bogey hole - but from what I've read about him he is very wealthy and doesn't have the desire to be what Tiger is and prefers a lesser work ethic and a more rounded life with plenty of relaxation at home. That's fine with me. Happiness internally is what counts, not fame or being No.1, or working your tail off. On the otherhand you have to deeply respect those who do work their tails off. From everything I've read VJ and Tiger work the hardest of everyone. Niklaus, in the days before Tiger rose up, said he thought Fred had the most talent of any golfer to ever play the game - including himself.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,662
    "Selling 60-70K cars with ES badge with large clumsy overhangs for $33K will not be good for long term passions. The ES is one model which I think Lexus should stop making and focus on increasing the sales of IS, now that it has a good product in hand."

    You want Lexus to stop selling a car that makes 80,000 unit sales a year?? So does it's competition as that car hits its mark dead-on whether you like it or not. $33K is the entry price - most sell $5K higher and many will get into the $41-42K range in the 2007 model year.
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