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High End Luxury Cars

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Comments

  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,873
    Sounds like you have a beef with your socialist government!! Do they tax Japanese cars more heavily than German cars? What would an S class cost?

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,873
    I saw this rather interesting article a few days ago about what type of people buy certain cars, etc.

    The article said that the majority of people who buy expenseive SUV's never take them off road, etc. I would certainly agree with this.

    It went on to say that the majority of people who buy expensive performance cars do not have the skill to drive them the way they were meant to be driven. Instead the cars sit in the garage and depreciate when they are not in bumper to bumper traffic commuting to and from work or picking up a carton of milk at the local grocery store. They like the idea of being a serious performance driver rather than actually being one. All for their self image.

    It was all in fun and quite humorous but it really hit the nail on the head about these so called "drugstore carboys". Anybody know anyone like that? ;)

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • Dewey, I know this is a lot of money to put in a car in spite the fact that I make my living earning USD(200K + annually) while living in Canada, but do you know what the starting MSRP for the LS430 was? How about the starting MSRP for your wife's 5x Touring, isn't it just shy of 80k? In any case, it is a bargain relative to competing candidates...
    I will not buy any car in this price range of CDN 80K plus in Canada, since you can save a lot of loonies importing one from the USA. In the case of the LS460, I would probably save about 10-15K. The only catch is you probably have to do cash purchase if you don't exist there financially i.e. have established financial records with a US financial institution.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,873
    Someone here recently asked if I would be buying a LS 460 any time soon. The answer is no. My next HELC will be a 2 or 3 year old LS 430 that someone else has taken the depreciation hit on. That is why I like Lexus. Their cars are still like new after 30 or 40K and quite reasonable.

    I would never waste my kids inheritance on a "new" car". The minute you take your first drive it is then a "used car". Nope, give me a 2 or 3 year old LS and I am happy.

    I never lease because I don't like the idea of driving someone else's car and I always pay cash.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    "Trash" as defined by you is anything negative Mr. Shoemaker found about the LS460? Every critical point he made has already been corroborated elsewhere. I can see you objecting to his aggressive writing style, but he does raise valid points.

    If you do get to drive one soon, please post your findings.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Sounds like you have a beef with your socialist government!! Do they tax Japanese cars more heavily than German cars? What would an S class cost?

    MB S Class base MSRP 120K Cdn $ (105K US$)

    Canadians pay 14 percent in sales taxes . Do I have a beef against our socialist government? Our current Government is conservative and unlike the BIG SPENDING/BIG GOVERNMENT Bush Republicans our Canadian covervatives promotes the idea of small government and are in the process of cutting our sales, income and capital taxes. The word socialist is a bit of a strong word in this case.

    gs2001,

    I got a good deal on my wife's BMW touring. Unfortunately with taxes, pdi and all the rest it ended up being close to $80k :cry:
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Heard from Automotive News that Acura will introduce a V8 for a future HELC.

    Now how about that RWD platforms?
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    This powerhouse of luxury, quality and technology demands respect, but it still doesn’t spark much lust. Blame the styling again, a letdown considering the momentum Lexus showed with its handsome IS and GS. Those sedans are perhaps the most distinctive Lexuses yet, but the LS takes a safer approach. The result is another apologetic Asian design, a doughy blend of BMW 7 Series and Toyota Avalon.

    New York Times LS Review
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    That's very understandable, frugal and considerate. Cars are definitely a money pit.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,873
    Thanks Dewey, but you left this part out:

    "But every year, when the smoke clears, a funny thing happens: The Lexus LS handily outsells them all, in part because it keeps rolling while its trouble-prone rivals are stuck in the shop".

    I might add that the car tested was the "L". I wouldn't buy that car either. It did get 30 mpg on the hi-way however.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,873
    There must be something wrong with your math. The LS has a base MSRP of $61,000. in the U.S. If it costs over $87,000. in Canada, that is about a 45% increase. Yet you say that the S class costs $105,000. U.S. and only $120,000. Canadian. That is only a 15% increase. Use the same increase percentage on the S and it would cost over $150,000. More hyperbole?

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • I believe the S550 starting MSRP is USD 87K.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,873
    Thanks 2001, I was using Deweys numbers. I guess he got that wrong too. Even at 87K that would put the S at over $126,000. Canadian.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • Yes, you are right. It's probably due to the difference in exch rates when the pricing was set, or due to slightly different standard equipments btw the two base cars.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    I was using Deweys numbers. I guess he got that wrong too
    There must be something wrong with your math.
    Use the same increase percentage on the S and it would cost over $150,000. More hyperbole?


    Houdini, please take a few deep breaths and repeat a few peaceful mantras every hour and maybe just maybe you wont be so reactive over nothing.

    There was nothing wrong with my math. No elaborate hyperbole on my part. The figure in the brackets was a conversion based on 1.14 CDN$ = 1.00 US$.

    US/Cdn $ rates of exchange has lately fluctuated between 1.13 and 1.15.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,873
    I am much more conversant. That is why I caught you out and corrected your mistakes!!

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    I think you are very articulate and conversant indeed.
    What single mistake did you catch me doing?
    And what was there to correct?
    Is it unusual to put foreign exchange conversions in brackets?
  • I got a good deal on my wife's BMW touring. Unfortunately with taxes, pdi and all the rest it ended up being close to $80k

    You managed to get over 15% off MSRP on a BMW vehicle? Let's see, that's roughly about CDN 12K, wow that's a good deal. However, it is no bargain when you compare it to a load hauler like a minivan (just so this is similar to the context of comparing the LS, S and 7).
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Well not that good. I only managed to get over 15 percent off because it was a demo.
    But I only got 4 percent off on my BMW335i. That was no demo since there was no BMW 335i sedan in N. America at the time I ordered it.
  • In fact a BMW 335i sedan was not even in existence yet in N. America when I bought mine.

    Are you sure you are not a free lancing auto journalist? How the heck do you get your hands on a car not yet available in NA while in Toronto.
    Back on topic, do you agree that the LS460 is still a bargain comparing to the S550 , even in Canada 86K vs 120K to start?
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    But I only got 4 percent off on my BMW335i.

    Worth every penny! They could raise the price on that car and it would still sell very well.

    TagMan
  • reality2reality2 Posts: 303
    Sounds like you are the "hater", if not a bit of sore. What's with the stupid anti-Audi comments? Sounds like childish dig at best. Audi doesn't need Lexus and thank goodness they do not want to be one! Why would Audi lower itself a couple of tiers to match Lexus. As for not having any sizzle, last time I checked the R8 would fry any Lexus (as would any Audi)out there. It's fine if you want to discuss the merits of your favorite brand, but keep it unbiased ok.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Yeah Dewey I may not win the E/5 bet. The E is selling better and better each month it seems, but a Denice William/Johnny Mathis song comes to mind "too much, too little, too late". Ah...sigh.

    I haven't give up just yet though, the results will have to be in before I do that of course.

    As far as this S-Class convertible is concerned I just don't believe it, and oh yes I will be there firsthand to see it and report back with pictures. :surprise:

    M
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    "Lexus owners sleep the sleep of the righteous."

    Well, thanks for the attempted conversion, but I will continue taking my chances with BMW; as close to heaven as a driving experience can be! :blush:
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Sword down for a moment.

    In reading the LS board I sense that some have decided to leave us again because there hasn't been enough praise of the new LS.

    In fairness, the review in which one compares the LS460L to the E63 AMG is bunk and not at all fair to the LS460L.

    Car and Driver's comparo while having some curious points concerning weight and having used a pre-production LS460L, is but one comparo. The only reason I and others hammered it is because this is the comparo that some banked on for a Lexus win or at the very least 2nd place and when that didn't happen, C&D is now (hasn't been in the previous 2-3 comparos concerning the LS) clueless or even more shockingly outright dishonest?

    I'm now reading that after all the years C&D was right on the money in placing the LS400 and LS430 models first, they've now fallen off and can't be trusted. I don't get this. Seriously, how is it that one can pick and choose which reviews are valid basely solely on whether or not they give the LS460 a glowing review or not?

    C&D clearly mentioned that the A8 was a 2006 model and that the LS460L was a pre-production model, but because they didn't shout this about the LS from the top of the page or in bold print they aren't to be trusted? Then you have the reasoning that they shouldn't have used a pre-production LS in a comparo, yet they've done it at least twice before. In one of the LS400 comparos years ago C&D stated that Lexus asked for the test as soon as possible and they (Lexus) supplied C&D a pre-production test car. If the car wasn't up to snuff then why turn it over to C&D for a comparo test?

    Edmunds reviewed the SWB LS460 and came right out and said that the S-Class (among others) hadn't been matched.

    The previous LS430 was an Automobile All-Star no? Now for 2007 there is a new LS and S and the S gets the nod. Why all of sudden is a magazine that recognized the supposed excellence of the previous LS not a viable judge of luxury cars now? Just because they dared pick a new S over a new LS? Help me out here?

    Forget the European reviews they aren't going to give a Lexus the nod of the usual German suspects. This stance I get because it is in part true because the Lexus doesn't have the dynamics of Euro spec versions of the S/7/A8. Now those who say these reviews are bunk do realize that the often times European spec BMW/MB/Audi models are firmer in suspension than U.S. spec cars?

    During the MT COTY competition they clearly state that the LS is a great car, but it doesn't meet or exceed the S-Class overall despite faults with both cars.

    I'm sure there will be other comparos from MT, Road and Track, Edmunds, and even Autoweek might do a head to head between the LS460L and S550 so of course the final verdict is still out, but if one can't see which way the evidence is leaning they simply are chosing to ignore the majority of that evidence. How could all these source be wrong and/or have something against Lexus when most of them (except MT) put the previous LS over the previous S before?How can this be called anything but denial?

    Why is so hard for the faithful to believe that the LS460/L didn't repeat 1989 (or 2001) when some of the previous LS strongholds have shifted?

    Doc, Houdini, 2001gs430?

    M
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    I agree with alot of what you said.

    It is sad that so many have left this forum for the LS forum. Despite the excuses one hears over there, I can't help but think that there are a couple of reasons that might be contributing, at least in some cases:

    1. The LS reviews to date have been mixed. Some good, some middling, some not so good. Maybe the comparo type reviews will change a bit once the comparison can be made to the S450 rather than S550, and/or once production units are tested. But for now, some lexusfans can't seem to take the heat. Some of them are simply in denial...leaving this forum is the equivalent of sticking their heads in the sand. I would bet that more of them would still be on this forum if the reviews and comparos were universally positive for the new LS.

    2. The sometimes (mostly in the past) uncivility that can take place here. Where people are just lambasted mercilessly at times, to the point where they are practially run off the forum. Stevekilburn comes to mind (and I think I was one of the guilty parties in that case). Not the most welcoming environment, when things are bad.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Excellent post.

    In fairness to the LS board, I would like to know which reviews THEY consider VALID, whether pro or con regarding the LS or S-Class.

    BTW, I, of all people, provided the LS forum yesterday with a re-post of one of the most positive reviews of the LS460 ever written. Barely got a thank you, except from cyclone4, I believe. Sometimes folks do indeed put the blinders on, IMO.

    This is the HELC forum, where cars can be compared. We are not just about Mercedes here, or BMW, or Lexus, so there are going to be more criticisms than on a board that is essentially about lots of stroking for a particular car. Heck, one contestant in the ring isn't about to get hit... but more than one, and there's bound to be some jabs of criticism.

    If this was a forum to only compliment the cars, and not look at their weaknesses as well, then I wouldn't be here!

    What the heck do they expect? I'd like an answer to my question, so I'll repeat it:

    In fairness to the LS board, I would like to know which reviews THEY consider VALID, whether pro or con regarding the LS or S-Class.

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    But for now, some lexusfans can't seem to take the heat. Some of them are simply in denial...leaving this forum is the equivalent of sticking their heads in the sand. I would bet that more of them would still be on this forum if the reviews and comparos were universally positive for the new LS.

    The Lexus folks have had a very long and successful ride. It is quite likely that their LS460-Series vehicle may have hit a bump or two, and in addition to that, the Mercedes S-Class may be considered by most reviewers to be an overall superior vehicle.

    They are not used to this for quite some time, if ever, and letting a little air out of their balloon is not a bad thing, but it does take some adjustment and a good hard reality check.

    As more reviews come in, and head to head challenges occur, we will see an even brighter light as to how these cars stack up against one another. Either way, there will be strengths and weaknesses for ALL cars reviewed... and those weaknesses also apply to the LS460, whether they like it or not.

    I suppose one of the things that makes it harder for them is the way some of us seem to lick our chops and savor the moment. But, truthfully, I don't think we need to apologize for liking the outcome of the reviews. I, personally respect the LS, but truly enjoy the fact that the S-Class is very often being considered a superior car by many reviews. I hope in the final analysis that the S-Class is CLEARLY the better car. I admit this. So what? I still respect the LS, but I'm not going to wear blinders, that's for sure, or whisper my criticisms when there is an LS poster aboard.

    I also admit that I love the way Audi is getting the recognition it deserves, finally. And BMW, as a company, is starting to get even more exciting than it already was.

    Lots of good things, and they're not entirely about Lexus. I have no problem with that.

    TagMan
  • I believe I wrote a very positive review of the LS when I drove it at the "Taste". It is a very nice car indeed. I am as confounded as most of you are, as to why some feel the need to pick up their toys, and play in another sand box, when their hasn't been the proper amount of praise heaped on it by everyone. To each his own I guess.

    Drfill. I don't think anyone is "hating on Lexus". But this is largely an enthusiasts thread, and Lexus doesn't make cars [so far] that appeal to that crowd. [A very small market in America.] The fact that Lexus sells so well, but has a hard time doing well when compared in driving dynamics to it's direct competitors, is proof that the average American car buyer, buys on comfort, features, and reliability.

    I don't think most of us have a problem giving Lexus it's due where deserved. Build quality, reliability, ergonomics, resale, service, etc. But for Lexus to have a heritage of making passionless cars, isn't it a little weird to expect a website full of enthusiasts to love it, when they've basically made another passionless car? Isn't it a little childish to expect people to love it, and then leave in a huff when a small amount of people disagree with them. I mean, they have the whole sales #'s thing on their side, so why not just call us all crazy, and continue in the fun.

    Why must people be like politicians, and only have people around them, that mimic their opinion?

    Jeremy Clarkson isn't fond of Audi's, but I'm not going to stop watching Top Gear. It's a very entertaining, and informative show. [He's nuts for hating on Audi's though :P .]
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,873
    Merc, I hope that you are not including me in the ones deserting this board. I did say that I would be spending more time on the LS board but that does not mean I am leaving this board. I have so much wisdom to pass on that I need at least two boards. :)

    I notice many of the Euro regulars here are also posting on the LS board: Tag, HP, and others. There is much good info on both boards.

    So, no, I will be around to pull the rug out from under you from time to time and to make sure you don't get too carried away with that bloated, brake dust smeared, wallowing hog of an S class. :D

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

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