Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





High End Luxury Cars

17047057077097101156

Comments

  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I take it you're shocked to see a Mercedes get such a good review?

    M
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    I believe the S550 is the car to beat in the HELM until the LS460 arrives here in the Fall. Lexus must bring its A+ game to the table if they hope to compete against this car...
  • It true that part of the reason why mercedes S is still at the top is because they have been considered the gold standard globally.

    Lexus LS is the car to beat in US, but Lexus is not a global brand which means they do not drive 20-30% sales from all the three major markets (North America, Europe and Asia Pacific).
    Asia Pacific would include Japan, Korea, China, Australia, Malaysia, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore and Thailand at least.

    That is the barrier Lexus has to overcome. In other words if Lexus has to become the global gold standard they will have to sell at leas 25% of their cars in Europe and another 20% in Asia Pacific. The rest may come from N.A.

    Also, although I accept that its silly to mention but Lexus LS 460L is still 2 inches shorter than S550.

    Moreover it does not have high end models to compete with S65 AMG which costs 180,000 but that might change.
  • I dont think Lexus sedans will ever exceed 500 hp. Though their Two-seaters may do that.

    The LS 600hL is the first production Japanese car "EVER" to feature more than 400 hp and it took them 40 years. I am not sure if they will ever exceed 500 hp. They will instead focus on fuel economy.

    But germans will probably break the 1000 hp barrier in not too distant future (discounting the Veyron, which is not a mass-produced car).

    Imagine a S-class with 1000 hp roaring down the street with 6 mpg = city and 12 mpg = highway. Now wouldn't that be fun. It will strike terror in the hearts of prius drivers. :P
  • QUattroporte makes 400 hp from 4.3 L. I am sure lexus can squeeze 400 hp from less than 5.0L.

    High rev engines in sedans will be a hit but they have make them silent.
  • But most americans love V8, no matter how much power Infiniti, porsche and honda keep squeezing from 6-cyl, there is something about 8-cyl which you cannot have from 6-cyl.

    Its pure passion. 10-cyl and 12-cyl is even better.

    M5 with 500 hp V10 is as passionate as it gets, but the quality and health sucks.

    BMWs and Benzes are not very healthy cars. They are like sick children on steroids.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Well you know I agree with that, but I predict they'll both rule this segment until BMW does something about it in 2008-09. I wonder how the mags will compare the S550 to the LS460 this time around since it doesn't look like a cheaper S450 will ever come to be.

    S550 vs. LS600hL, or LS600hL vs S600, S550 vs. LS460L

    I wonder which it will be?

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    BMWs and Benzes are not very healthy cars. They are like sick children on steroids.

    Dare I ask what you mean by this?

    M
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    Simply due to product timing, any comparos this fall are going to be S550 vs LS460L. Since I expect the S to be superior dynamically, at least with ABC, the S is likely to come out on top, given most auto rags' emphasis on performance and "fun".

    I still think that one reason MB might be holding off on an S450 might be to force the auto rags to use the S550 in comparos...so that MB has a better chance of winning.
  • anthonypanthonyp Posts: 1,857
    My guess would be the S550 vs LS460l...I say because the 460l may be around the same length as the mercedes...If it is longer then the comparison would be the shorter length...IMO no matter they should be great cars both...I am getting a number of Lexus fliers in the mail, and the pictures look good...I am not in the market for a couple of years, and am very pleased with the A8...Tony
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    I won't automatically hand a win to the S550 when it goes against the LS460L. How do you know the S would be dynamically better than the LS ? No one has tested the new LS yet, so we don't know. And the past is certainly no judge of the future for this new LS. Do you recall the Dec 2004 C&D (or is it MT ? I forget) comparo which the LS430 won against its peers ? In that comparo, the S430 came in almost dead last. So I'd wait to see what the S550 v LS460L v 750iL yields. That should be a fun comparo...
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    My guess is that the fastest Lexus sedan will probably be an IS460 or IS500, with 380-400hp. I also dont think that they have any real desire to try and compete with Mercedes on the 63\65AMG level.

    Infiniti could be another matter though. The M is much more "Germanic" than the GS, and could very conceivably have over 400hp in a few more years. I dont see Lexus using their V-10 in any of their sedans, but the GT-Rs upcoming 450+hp, 3.8L twin turbo engine could show up in an Infiniti product.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    "BMW's and Benzes are not very healthy cars. They are like sick children on steroids."

    Is there a point to posting this?
    Thanks for the laugh! :P
  • Sometimes I like to hit a nerve with merc1 on this. All in good humor, everyone knows what I am poking fun at ;)
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    But most americans love V8, no matter how much power Infiniti, porsche and honda keep squeezing from 6-cyl, there is something about 8-cyl which you cannot have from 6-cyl.

    Its pure passion. 10-cyl and 12-cyl is even better.


    IMO, I think there is a word for it:

    TORQUE

    What is horsepower without it's dear friend torque? Oh yes . . . Horsepower + Torque = [fill in the blank], and everyone say amen. :)

    TagMan
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I still think that one reason MB might be holding off on an S450 might be to force the auto rags to use the S550 in comparos...so that MB has a better chance of winning.

    Yeah I've thought about that one too. I really don't blame them if they are because all this talk about the LS beating the S-Class has been incorrectly hyped for years when the LS has only beaten one member of the "S-Class", the S430. It has never (that I've seen) beaten the S500, but I have seen the S500 beat the LS430 in MT when the LS430 and S500 were fairly new.

    Everything I've read at other MB sites suggests that with around 25K sold so far (worldwide) this year that production is at full capacity so an entry-level S isn't needed right now. The S450 was to be a U.S. only model and it isn't needed now obviously. I suspect we'll see a S450 after MB goes direct-injection on all their petrol engines which will be in 2008 so it we be more competitive hp wise.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Things will be very different this time for sure. The S550 won't be the oldest car in the class like the S430 was and it will be a current model year version unlike that 2003 S430 they used.

    M
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Any bets on when the Lexcuses will start?

    ;-)
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    My guess is that victory between the S550 and LS460 will depend on how much the reviewers value the price difference between the two cars. If price is no object, the win will probably go to Mercedes. If it is, Lexus may have a shot. Who wins what in which automag ultimately isn't that terribly important to me. The Lexus wins in my own garage.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Well said. Is there any chance you won't like what you see when you get to road test the LS or are you confident it will do the trick when it arrives? Poor little 750, A8 and XJ won't be good fuh nuttin' in the comparos? I can see the LS faring better in MT and struggling in R&T. The latter take the "Track" part of their name quite seriously. You have to catch the reviewers who like lux to begin with. I guess this isn't an easy class to review objectively.
Sign In or Register to comment.