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High End Luxury Cars

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  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    But I didn't... BTW, these *excuses* are exactly what the comparos complained about the IS350... I am not excusing Lexus of these, but questioning the overall rating/points as awash. Oh well... I guess I cannot win, so I declare you the winner, if by 1-pt - a win is a win !!!

    Well OAC those aren't really "excuses" those are really the actual resons why the IS350 didn't win. Excuses (in an attempt to put the IS350 on top) would be the part about the reliability in one comparo when there have been other comparos in which the BMW had no problems yet still won.

    Thats just it, the points haven't all been "a wash" in every comparo either. I've seen you at least try to make the case (excuse) as to why Lexus didn't include a manual on the IS350 on the ELLPS board before too.

    Nah you can't win this one, a win is a win in your book also....or at least it will be if the LS640 creams the field this fall! It has been that way with you concerning the LS430 vs the segment also, you've never questioned anything regarding the point systems or ratings there. :P

    M
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    Here is the bottom-line, Merc1... Both cars are hardly driven the way these comparos drive them.... Real life driving dynamics, handling and performance b/w the two are really close, maybe a tad ahead for the Bimmer (not in straight-line tho'). Like I said, both cars are great, and have their biases... Owners of both cars seemed real pleased, and these are the opinions that actually count in the grand scheme of things, don't you agree ?
  • That is no longer true, I just returned from the New York Auto Show and Cayman S interior was stunning, better than anything mercedes, BMW have to offer in interiors.

    In fact I liked CaymanS interior better than 911. The subtle styling tuches and rich beige leather with dark metallic touches on the dashboard were just pure passion.

    On the other hand apart from S550's interior, all the benzes looked dated and downright dull compared to LS 460.
  • The XK looks like a pulped out rat or a cockroach on its final journey.

    The divine exterior which you are talking about is because you haven't been de-programmed yet by Morpheus. Why dont you come to senses and smell the roses.

    911 is a classic, cayman is an instant classic, the LS 460 looks divine, aston martin vantage was pure heaven. But XK, it was like a pickled rat in a surgeon's jar. Timeless! :P
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Yeah I agree with that up to a point. The only thing is though I really do see a lot of BMW 3's (they drive like @@#$% a lot of times) tearing around than Lexuses or Mercedes so I think a good percentage of 3-Series drivers actually do appreciate what their cars can do so for them the feel and manual are deciding factors. Problem is there is no way to measure what percentage of the 3-Series or IS350 drivers really have a clue about what their cars can do or the skills to exploit those capabilities. So yeah I do hear what you're saying but the point of those tests were to find the best sports sedans mainly along with other factors.

    I think you know however that this wasn't what I was debating. My point was that there is always a gloss over factor whenever one's fav brand doesn't win a comparo and nothing I could even dream up would enable me to excuse a loss by Mercedes in your eyes, but yet we're supposed to think that comparos (more than C&Ds) between the IS350 and 330i are somehow not correct or somehow not indicative of any real differences between the two cars? Nah that isn't right.

    If we're going to question the (or imply that its supsect) criteria or methods of every comparo to try and put our faves ahead (or worse ignore the points) then it is pointless to discuss anything about them.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Steve you're going to have to read my posts more throughly. I said that Porsche IS the gold standard among German automakers.

    M
  • The jag for fun? Are you 70?
  • The pictures frankly dont do justice. When you see it in person, you realize how far the design has become passionate.
    Notice the change "from relentless pursuit" --> "passionate pursuit".

    Benz and Lexus presentations were placed next to each other and it was a site to behold. The visitors were impressed with benzes, especially with SLR, but they were enchanted with the Lexuses especially on the second floor where the new LS was.

    The interior is simply the best I saw on the whole show. Although they could have done even better by showing tan leather instead of creamy white and grey colored leather.

    The hybrid LS 600h L came with two pretty nymphs who are competing with the gorgeous specimen for attention.

    This car undoubtedly will become the gold-standard bar none. The center console was simply beautiful and the integrated exhaust pipes added to its athleticism.

    Other cars which stood out were the Ferraris especially the scaglietti with two tone paint and the black quattroporte.
  • was in white and looked stunning. Lot of pics were being taken. On the side was Land Rover with its own gear.

    More and more models are being introduced with integrated tail-pipes.

    Another thing about LS: In person it did not look similar to BMW 7. Very different front, side and back profile. Very unique.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Not quite. If one end of the spectrum is the Lotus Elise, and the other end is the SC430, the XKR is somewhere in the middle. It can actually be a fun car to drive.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    A little MB video just for you.

    M
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    In fact I liked CaymanS interior better than 911. The subtle styling tuches and rich beige leather with dark metallic touches on the dashboard were just pure passion.

    Sounds like the 911 had an interior package. They're actually identical except for the shape of the air vents and amount of dials in the instrument cluster. Cayman vents are round, 911's are rectangular.

    Porsche interiors were never luxurious and I still don't bestow that blessing upon them even though their use of much better materials has been getting attention.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Seems as if Porsche is left out of the discussion in this thread.

    I've always said that sport is luxury but there's nothing to compare them to in this thread unless you talk SUVs or the other pure sports cars. Plus there isn't much interest here. The task here is to figure out which is better, Lexus or Mercedes. I think they've almost figured it out and a definitive conclusion will be reached any day now. Look for the white smoke coming from the Edmunds chimney.

    ;-)
  • feverhartfeverhart Posts: 144
    Good show, merc1.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    A little MB video just for you.

    OMG! Perfectly summed up as "a phenomenal car"!

    Of course, regarding all of our comments about TORQUE . . . no 7-speed tranny here as "the engine would just rip it apart"!

    Makes the point, doesn't it? A genuine case study.

    Thank you, Merc. You are OK in my book.

    TagMan
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    Truly a phenomenal car with great driving and handling xteristics. I wish Lexus will build something that tossable with 4-doors, but I doubt it ;)

    Nicely done, MB.

    But I still don't like the shape/style of the CLS...that's just me tho'.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    But I still don't like the shape/style of the CLS...that's just me tho'.

    No, it's not totally just you tho' . . . I understand. I have some styling issues with it as well, even though it is a phenomenal car in many ways. But I don't dislike it as much as you, on the other hand.

    TagMan
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    The 996 911 and previous Boxster had pretty terrible interiors. The new cars are much better than inside than competing sports cars like the Vette or Viper (provided you spend thousands on interior upgrades), but they still arent nearly as luxurious as the Maserati coupe or V8 Vantage.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    "Truly a phenomenal car with great driving and handling xteristics. I wish Lexus will build something that tossable with 4-doors, but I doubt it"

    They sort of do now...the IS350 is quite tossiable, you just have to shut down VDIM first with a service code. Supposedly, there may actually be a "VDIM Off" button on '07 cars. Wouldnt that be nice.

    http://www.autospies.com/article/index.asp?articleId=6841
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