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High End Luxury Cars

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Comments

  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Just on looks I'll take the Lexus. Did I say that?

    The Acura has some interesting lines too, but the Lexus is much closer to production. Then there is the Lexus interior compared to an "Acura".

    M
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Makes me think of the Batmobile. :P
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    The Acura has some interesting lines too, but the Lexus is much closer to production. Then there is the Lexus interior compared to an "Acura".

    Ah, but I wonder who's going to do the suspension tuning for Acura. Ayrton Senna did the last one. Lexus isn't exactly known for world class suspensions.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    I would have to have PASM and drive it mostly in sport mode. I would label the button “For Potholes” in reference to normal mode. Have you driven either a 996 GT3 or 997 GT3? I have read posts by people who had the concern about the harsh suspension because it’s the party line, but after driving the GT3 they say the harshness is overrated and want it. It also has the bullet proof engine with dry sump, higher redline, and more power. But it's the steering and handling qualities that I seek. Of course the new GT3 is very different also.

    I have my work cut out seeking older Porsches. The ones that are at the top of my list are the 993 Turbo and 993 C2S. I could also see myself going back to the 80s and working myself forward, perhaps a different one each year.

    Bottom line, Tag, the new Porsches are different, very different. Too bad because it's still one of the best-looking vehicles around and they stayed the course with styling. I’m glad you like yours and hope your back is better. I really think I’ve reached my tolerance threshold with technology one-upsmanship among the manufacturers. At least I’m not one of those who say the 356 was the last real Porsche.

    ;-)
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    I really think I’ve reached my tolerance threshold with technology one-upsmanship among the manufacturers.

    That's a very big statement. In the real world it's a two-edged sword. On the one hand there are the benefits, but on the other, it explains why guys like me would try the Lotus Elise or Exige. You are an enthusiast no doubt, a purist at heart.. and that's OK in my book.

    At the end of the day, we can only choose from what is available in the marketplace, and pray that something out there satisfies most of our driving preferences.

    Hpowders gets the performance and seating capacity and room for luggage out of his 5-Series. Blkhemi gets a car for every day of the week or every mood he's in. Some of us get a combination of luxury sedan and sports car and perhaps an SUV to accomplish all our needs.

    I'm hopeful that you will find the "right" vehicle for your sports car need, without too much compromise.

    Truth be told, there are days I miss that Lotus in a certain sense, because as great as this Carrera S is, the Lotus was like a laser shot to the senses. Total and pure exhileration.

    Now, if only there was a way to transform the Porsche into the Lotus once or twice a week, because on the other five or six days it is a perfect 10. See what I mean?

    Good luck with your quest.

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    I'm guessing that the Acura might be a 2+2 configuration. But the Acura is very early in the game to determine it's final look. The Lexus looks more muscular and better proportioned, IMO, and the Acura looks almost a bit too sleek and slippery, at least so far. Overall, I think I prefer the appearance of the Lexus, but I sure have my concerns about the front end and especially that triangular exhaust.

    With regards to the IS-F... no thanks, thumbs down, IMO. It will be interesting to see the comparisons to the 3-Series however.

    BTW, that Toyota FT-HS hybrid sports car in the $30K range could be a real winner.

    TagMan
  • brightness04brightness04 Posts: 3,151
    Resale values (acutal used car prices) for BMWs are among the highest in the industry. The high residual are a product of those high actural resale values. Oh yes BMW subsidizes their residuals like any other auto firms. But because of the higher reslae values for BMW their residual are higher than other auto firms. The high demand for used BMWs are what makes high residuals possible

    That set of statements may have been valid at some historical time on some specific (non-HELC) models, just like "buying usually work out better than lease," but not at all valid at current time on some (or the majority of)specific models from that particular mfr that are the purview of this forum.

    The auto industry as a whole sees less than 10-20% of cars going off the lot as leases; however, BMW and MB see over 60% of their cars going off the lot as leases. That phenomenom alone should tell us that BMW and MB are subsidizing leases far more than the rest of the industry on average. The overwhelming majority of BMW's and MB's are returned at lease end. That alone should tell us that there is a significant gap between lease residual vs. how much the used car is actually worth when the private owner tries to sell it at that time. Either that, or BMW/MB drivers have terrible financial sense. I tend to have more faith in BMW and MB drivers's ability in optimizing their own finances. Large number of independent decision makers tend to reflect the underlying cost/benefit very well, just like a disproportionate ratio of the same result is a good indicator of the coin or dice being loaded.

    BMW 7 series, which is the purview of this forum, never had good resale value. BMW 3 series historically had good resale because they were hardly discounted until the last few months of previous model runs; that is, a few months out of a typical 72-month model run; BMW has 6-year model cycles. That was a very unique market situation. E90 changed all that. E90 has not been able to maintain selling average close to MSRP for even the entire first model year. Discounting started as little as 6-9 months after E90 was introduced. The lease residuals have so far pretended it's still the good old days. The lease residuals on 7 and 5 series don't even jive with historical realities. It's going by some kind of historical BMW fleet average, which was heavily skewed by the historical high resale of previous generations of 3-series because 3-series outsell 5 and 7 combined, several times over.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Enough please. You already promised...

    By the way for everyone's benefit, this is the problem with "I'll make one more comment and then I won't say anything else." Someone wants to respond to that with "one more commment" then there's a reply with just "one more comment" to that.

    That's why I have to draw a line in the sand. And I'm doing that here. No more leasing debates here.

    :shades:
  • dhamiltondhamilton Posts: 873
    It's been said here before but,

    Honda is an engineering/racing company, Toyota is a manufacturing company.

    Obviously they both play in the other sand box, but, on tradition, I'll take the Acura, and go with their racing heritage to get it right.

    FWIW, I'll go with Lexus to get a barkocruiser.

    All of this could blow up in my face of course.

    Actually, they'll probably both do some things right, and be pretty close.

    Still, my nod goes to the Acura for the traditional enthusiast. [They'll probably offer a proper stick]

    And the Lexus gets the nod for the "recent lottery enthusiast"
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Honda is an engineering/racing company, Toyota is a manufacturing company

    Never thought about it that way, but what you state is bascially true. Of course they both do engineering and manufacturing, but they both have a slant in either of those respective areas.

    M
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    If it weren't for my uncle Vern's old 300SD w/only 29,000 miles, I'd say that is the most reserved example of that era of S classes, hands down.

    That car, on average, only saw maybe 6k miles a year, WOW!
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    I'm inching a bit further into making my decision on the new conv.

    This comes as the guy who wants to buy the S600 is really ready to buy it. He's sweeten the deal by 2k if I can get out of it by the beginning of next week.

    Jaguar has the greystone metallic XKR that I want in stock. So does MB and Porsche, altho Porsche's Turbo convertible was very exhilarating today in it's Super Red paint. The blistering performance also left my eyes with a matching hue of red. And also, there was an '06 SL65 in the showroom in the usual silver hue for "only" $129k. Very tempting folks.

    Very close gang, very close.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    Judging from how little room is left for the wheels to give any amount of comfort, and also looking at that gaudy bulge in the hood, Lexus will never green light this car into production as it is.

    Why not take the S4 or M3 approach to it all? Give it just a little dash of appeal on the outside and all glitz and glamour under the hood and underside of the car.
  • carnaughtcarnaught Posts: 1,593
    Ummm, choices, choices. My vote is for the red Porsche Turbo.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    What model year is that Porsche Turbo Cab?

    TagMan
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Ah, but I wonder who's going to do the suspension tuning for Acura. Ayrton Senna did the last one. Lexus isn't exactly known for world class suspensions.

    All valid points, but there is something more alluring about the Lexus to me at this point.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I can't keep up with whats going on with you and your cars anymore! Do you still have the S8? Selling the S600? Why? If you still have the S8 and don't sell the S600 then I'd say go for either the Jag or the Porsche, that way you have a well rounded garage.

    M
  • dhamiltondhamilton Posts: 873
    Merc, your in to design a lot more than me that's for sure.

    blkhemi, how's the wife enjoying the S8?

    Also, how can you expect me to do my job of wishing I was your prodigal son, when you have stopped talking about the Aston?
    In order for me to properly continue in this fantasy land, I'm going to have to insist that the Aston be reconsidered.

    Back to merc, and design. Being such a design guy, wouldn't the Aston be your first choice for blkhemi?

    LG, what do you think of the Jag concept?
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Well design is first with me, but it isn't the only thing going either. I didn't know he was considering and Aston, I must have missed that? I still like the DB9 more than the V8 Vantage.

    Yeah I find it nearly impossible to get with an ugly or dull looking car.

    M
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    That is quite a tough decision you've got there. I'd take an XKR over a new SL550 any day of the week, but the SL65 is a completely different animal. I think I could get past the been there, done that looks for that kind of performance. The poor AJ-V8 just can't compete, no matter how much boost they throw at it. The XKR-R might be a different story, but MB will probably have an all new SL by the time it shows up (if it ever does). I have to assume that the days of loooong SL production runs are over.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    The C-XF? So far I think it looks pretty good, though I need to see more of it. The only place where they really lost me is that square mouth that it has, like some kind of sucker fish. Definitely worse than Audi's Big Mouth Bass, which I've grown to tolerate. I think it was a very smart idea for them to come up with a new name for what is the first truly "new" Jag sedan in a VERY long time. Much better to say the S-type is dead, this is the new Jag, rather than this is the new S-type.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,927
    Hmmmm...I see the LS 460 was just named International Car of the Year for 2007. It actually won in 2 categories, the second being Most Respected Car of the Year, whatever that means.

    I knew it was only a matter of time before these awards started piling up. This is probably the finest automobile ever built, by far. Of course this is just my opinion, but my opinion is extremely important to me. :)

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • mdchachimdchachi Posts: 275
    I have a quick question... do the voice recognition systems in any of these vehicles allow dialog-style interaction? By that, I mean do you have to press a "talk" button each time you speak to the system or are there any systems where you need only press the talk button once, at the start of a dialog (like OnStar). Thanks.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    I could be corrected on this, but I do believe that the voice command systems all require the push of a button just prior to issuing the command, or replying to a question.

    TagMan
  • ctsangctsang Posts: 237
    In December Lexus dealers delivered 3865 LS Series to customers, the most of any import luxury marquee.
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    I've noticed them starting to refer in ads to the E350 as a "sport sedan". Isn't that a new approach for them? Maybe they're trying to emphasize sport a bit more, as is Lexus?
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I've noticed them starting to refer in ads to the E350 as a "sport sedan". Isn't that a new approach for them? Maybe they're trying to emphasize sport a bit more, as is Lexus?

    Well for the first time in years the E has an optional sports packace that is more than just cosmetics so that is what they've been harping about. It is also a no-cost option so most of the 07' E's I've seen have it.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Well Detroit opens to the public on Saturday so I'll see you guys in a few days!!!!!

    M
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    Enjoy! Looking forward to the annual Merc1 show report!
  • dhamiltondhamilton Posts: 873
    Congratulations Houdini, and all Lexus fans.

    A deserving award for a very respected automobile
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