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High End Luxury Cars



  • garyh1garyh1 Posts: 386
    The funny thing is that if you stopped writing like a looney and made your points more cogently, you might find people agreeing with you instead of lampooning you.

    We all know (and it has been discussed on this forum for years) that Lexus priced itself as a bargain back when it started selling the LS, and has been slowly but inexorably raising its prices as its acceptance in the US marketplace has increased. According to ljflx's posts about information he received at the NY Auto Show, that pricing increase trend is continuing with the new LS. But Lexus is not about to jeopardize their 17 year success story by taking a "quantum leap" in pricing.

    Of course, if you posted a belief that Lexus was going to slowly keep raising prices, that wouldn't make you the center of all this attention, would it? ;)
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    I guess I don't get how the LS 460 is supposed be a "quantum leap in content" over the LS 430.
    It may be a better vehicle than the LS 430 but nobody knows that yet.
    One poster said he thought the driver's seat was better in the LS 430. But even if the general consensus is that the newer vehicle is better overall, will it be a "quantum leap" better? I highly doubt it.
    $65k or so sounds about right to me on pricing. Very fair for a newly designed LS with ML and navigation.
    I know I will be checking one out in the Fall, assuming I can survive the beastly Florida summer!
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Every car company has to produce at least one lemon every now and then. Still, the statistics don't lie. 2-5% of CR subscribers reported problems with their '98 LS400s in all areas, while the A8, 7, and S have 10%+ problem rates in some areas for the newest rated model year. Thats a lot of people that have cars with no problems, but its still a lot more reported problems than an 8 year old Lexus.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    So it's safe to say that the LS will fall inline with the A8/7 anyway. With prices like this, and if they hold true, them Steve will get his wish.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    I could hardly believe CR any longer than a New York minute. Still, I know that the LS is the paramount of reliability in it's class, that goes without question. But it's far from fault-free. It is less faulty than others appear to be tho. I was just driving the point home that even Lexus has problems too. Not many, but they are there.

    Heck, depending on how good the new LS is, they may get my business once again. I'm waiting for a final analysis as to whether to go with the S63 or LS as a possible replacement for my W-12 until the '09 model comes.

    Yes, I had problems with my second Lexus, and swore right from that point to never return. But then again I said I'd never buy Cadillac after my '84 Eldo caught fire, but there I was again buying a '97 STS(very reliable, shockingly for a Caddy), so time will tell.
  • anthonypanthonyp Posts: 1,857
    In the real world, after the initial rush, I believe Lexus will still have a substantual price advantage over the bmw and a8...That is why it has been so successful---an appealing value, although there is no value in a depreciating asset...Mercedes is the one to beat, but when a company is perceived in a mystical way, it can`t be beaten until it is no longer mystical....How could they not realize that the demand for their new radar and night camera would not be in high demand from customers with much money??? Tony
  • stevekilburnstevekilburn Posts: 359
    So you want to call me a looney who lacks cogent thinking and gets lampooned left and right. Alright, carry on, but then dont expect me to save you next time when you make a less than perfect comment.

    You think I am doing this just to "GRAB ATTENTION". Well I dont get it! I have been saying all along that it does not behove Lexus to under-cut competitors prices, when their products are second to none. What is so lunatic in that?

    According to my Analysis, BMW makes "quantum leaps" in pricing when they introduce next generation of vehicles. And during model years they go for incremental increases.

    Lexus has been charging mid 50K prices since 1995, and its time to move on. The quality and content gap has been sharply decreasing b/w LS and competitors, but price gap is rather increasing. I plotted all te price data since 1992 so I know.

    During 1999-2001 period LS sold quite well and they reduced price advantage compared to 7-series from 25% to 16%, but then something happened and the gap increased to 25% again!!!
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    A few questions about CR. Do they only survey their subscribers or do they survey owners regardless of whether or not they are CR subscribers? I'm thinking that with all the negative reports about Mercedes why would anyone who subscribes to CR even buy one, wouldn't their survey pool dry up if Mercedes so bad?

    I glanced at the April issue a while back and it looked like the only Mercedes even approaching decent reliability is 2005+ SLK??

  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I caught your post on the S-Class board, so you're looking to replace your belove A8 W12 already?? Why so soon if I my ask?

    The S63 AMG won't have the naturally aspirated version of the new AMG 6.2L V8, but a turbo version with around 570hp.

    If they went with the n/a version the S63 would actually be slower than the previous S55 AMG. The 6.2L V8 only has a few more hp (493 vs. 515), but a lot less torque than the old 5.5L SC V8 at 465lb vs 516lb-ft. The turbo version of the new 6.2L V8 will have about 620lb-ft of torque. One of BMW execs called the S63 a "firebreather" when asked as to whether or not they would build an M7.

    I'm looking for a debut at either Detroit 2007 or possibly even Paris in Sept, either way it will land here this time next year.

  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    According to my Analysis, BMW makes "quantum leaps" in pricing when they introduce next generation of vehicles. And during model years they go for incremental increases.

    Your analysis? Oh sure.

    Historically, a "next generation" vehicle is introduced after the current life cycle or model cycle is complete. Sometimes there is a mid cycle change or facelift or slight modifications, updates, and incremental improvements and refinements.

    As a new generation vehicle is released, the opportunity arises for the new price to increase, decrease or stay the same. This can be a very deliberate and strategic decision in some circumstances.

    In any event, there are historical circumstances when the life cycle of a model and all of its incremental price increases resulted in a final price that is just too darned high for the replacement. In these cases the next generation car therefore becomes the perfect time to introduce the "new and improved" model at a "new lower price".

    By "resetting", that is reducing, the price at this opportunity, the price can then incrementally increase once again year after year. Without this occasional "reset", prices would never come back in line as they should, and they could ultimately escalate wildly without limitations.

    I am not suggesting that Lexus should reduce their prices, but I am suggesting that you recognize that price reductions and/or constraints generally INCREASE market share.

    Theoretically, the GLOBAL (as you put it) automobile market is in a position to afford MORE cars at MODERATE prices than at HIGH prices. From a business standpoint, it makes sense to INCREASE sales. So, as the global demographics indicate, the volume of automobile sales will generally and proportionally INCREASE with a DECREASE in price structure. This is just a general and basic rule of global economics.

    Therefore, to take your argument about quantum price change a little further, it is logical to extrapolate that the best incentive for increased sales is to offer a quantum price REDUCTION! This will then increase the sales volume even further.

    That being said, it could be argued that it makes MORE sense to campaign for a quantum price REDUCTION of the LS. Just think how many more they would sell!!! :P

  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    That issue has come down to this.

  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    I'm sure you've seen this before, but I couldn't figure out how to directly post the photo, so I've placed the link. photo/Mini1/page/1/country/gcf/porsche/first-porsche-panamera-spy-photos

    Cookie Monster says, "Me love cookies".

    TagMan says, "Me love Panamera".
  • garyh1garyh1 Posts: 386
    So you want to call me a looney who lacks cogent thinking and gets lampooned left and right.

    I really didn't say either of those first two things; all I said was that you were "writing like a looney" and if you made your arguments more cogently, other people might agree with you more.

    Here are a couple of lines from your post that I was reacting to:

    Well done Ljflx, you star will shine forever.

    Such lollipop shareholders will be immediately escorted out by security gorillas.

    Please read my post again and I think you will see that I was trying to support you, not insult you.
  • garyh1garyh1 Posts: 386
    Very nice! But what is the back seat like? Those rear doors look pretty small. Maybe it will make the back of the CLS look roomy?
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Maybe it will make the back of the CLS look roomy?

    So does a Mini Cooper. CLS rear room is pitiful, IMO.

    Final Panamera is still years away. Reasonable room would be OK. Cramped, and I would pass.

    gary - forget the argument with steve . . . merc's link says it best.

  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    CR only surveys subscribers of the mag or website. There is no data for either the '05 S-class or BMW 7, so perhaps CR subscribers did stop buying them.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    CR only surveys subscribers of the mag or website.

    That's correct. And FORMER subscribers. I cancelled a trial subscription long ago and still get included in their surveys.

  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    Yes it is true. I have a potential buyer for the W-12 waiting for me to decide on a new ride. The only reasons for selling the car is to get a decent return on my "investment" and the poor guy totaled his Phaeton and absolutely loves the W-12 powertrain, and an A8 W-12 factory-ordered is hard to come by, any W-12 for that matter.

    Thanks for the info on the S63. I was reading the wrong info. It's the ML63 that'll get "only" 503hp. But 570 is better. I drove the S600 all day today, and it has erased some of my gripes with the W221.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I guess I'm just surprised you'd sell the A8 so soon, you seem to be a huge fan of the car.

    Well it gets even more complex as the new S65 arrives in July for you to take into consideration...what a "problem" you!

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