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High End Luxury Cars

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  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    I think you need to see an 07 MDX in person. In pictures, faux wood looks like wood. In person, it looks like the plastic that it really is.

    Hey, syswei... absolutley no disagreement there. The real point was quite simply that overall the RX interior is no big leap over the rest of them by any significant measure, and on the other hand to say that Acura has never done a good job on any interior is too extreme. They are both in that quasi-mid-line arena that boasts a fair amount of positive attributes, but also compromises when compared to the upper line models.

    TagMan
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    Concise. And accurate. I like that! :)

    If I slip up, you just let me know. K?

    And I like Acura interiors! :shades:

    It's thur exteriors that bite the bust! :sick:

    I think they are officially the ugliest lineup in the business!

    DrFill
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    And I like Acura interiors!

    It's thur exteriors that bite the bust!


    WOW! Is this REALLY the Doc, or an imposter? ;)

    Personally, I also think Acura'a interiors are fine and essentially par with the price category they are in. Regarding the exteriors, I'm neutral, although my wife has the '06 MDX, and after seeing the '07 I am glad... I don't like the '07. Anyway, she's been mentioning the X5 lately. I had originally thought to gently persuade a little towards the upcoming Mercedes GL "vision" 8-cylinder diesel, but it's really her call, and if she can't wait that long, then it could be her first ownership experience with your favorite iDrive. :)

    TagMan
  • reality2reality2 Posts: 303
    hmm. Super luxury Horch was founded in around 1899. Audi in 1904 (same company) all luxury pedigrees. An A3 for $20,000...where? I love to get one at that price. It starts at $26,000 minimum. An A4 for $30,000. Where, would grab one at that price right away. The brand spanking new IS sold around 55,000 units, while the 5 year old A4 sold 50,000 units in the US in 2006. Not bad for an old lady.
  • dhamiltondhamilton Posts: 873
    concede a slight edge in interior quality, but ride quality is down to the new MDX. The RX is a dinasour.

    BMW has done a masterful job of out Lexusing Lexus, and still BMW'ing on the new X5.

    The MDX takes ride quality and handling almost there. The Lexus has
    1. A nicer interior?
    2. Better secondary controls?
    3. A dinasour ride, with a princely ransom = OVER RATED.

    PS what could be easier than voice commands. Easier than taking your hands, and eyes off the wheel, and road to make adjustments, that's for sure.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    So now we're back to "what C&D says is golden" again?

    Just checkin as this is the same mag(with a slew of others) that have just slammed the LS right on it's bouncy springs.

    BTW: This is the same mag that also said on the short take when the S8 was new "that it is the purest sport sedan in it's segment and well worth the premium over the A8". How's that for change of views?
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    You know Doc, I respect you for sticking to your guns. No matter how pointless and untrue they are, you never waver from them.

    But to say you have no respect for Audi? The very brand that has a 4 year vehicle that handed the LS golden "L" to it on a silver platter?

    And I do question your credibility when you say in '89 that you knew Lexus would dominate.

    Gee, you saw something that Toyota couldn't even see as they didn't think it would work as good as it has(in the US of course, elsewhere, it's a diseaster), and it was nothing more than a response to the '80's addition of Acura and Infiniti.
  • dhamiltondhamilton Posts: 873
    You are really at odds with yourself.

    1. You really love sticks, but you love a company that's allergic to em.

    2. The company's that do sedan sticks the best [Audi/BMW] you hate because of I drive, and you just hate, which has 0 to do with the driving experience. [order without it]

    3. While trying to convince us of being an enthusiast, you constantly refer back to that good time you had in the SC430.

    I gotta give credit where credit is due. Trying to figure out where your comin from is like trying to catch a greased up strain of VD. Easy, and itchy all at the same time.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    dhamilton,
    Rest assured of one huge kudo that Acura (and Honda) richly deserve... one of the very best navigation systems at ANY price. Combining the voice-command and the touchscreen with what is one of the absolute best user-friendly interfaces around, as well as very good graphics... well, it all makes for a superior top-notch NAV system, that's for sure.

    BTW, with regards to the voice-command portion of the system, IBM, who had the leading technology in this field, worked closely with Acura on this system years before its release and they deserve a lot of the credit as well.

    TagMan
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    Two Tings!

    First Ting: I'm a complicated guy. Not easily knocked out, or easily killed. This brings respect, confusion, and a little jealousy among the ranks. Not entirely unintentional...

    Lexus' misses the boat on sticks, but they nail most everything else. But even they are not perfect.

    But the PURSUIT continues.....

    And my #2: Don't hate me 'cus I'm beautiful! ;) I'm world-renowned for having fun in many places, doing many things, with many different people. The SC430 is a very successful car, with a great interior, and an underrated chassis, considering it is usually pitted against some of the best performing machines in the world. It's no slouch, is all I can say, despite what is put over in these forums.

    DrFill
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    OK, Doc, fess up... Jack Daniels or Johnny Walker? ;)
    TagMan
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    And I do question your credibility when you say in '89 that you knew Lexus would dominate.

    You'll have to point out to me where I said that.

    I knew Lexus was onto something big, but I couldn't fathom a new company gaining such acceptance, dominance really, so quickly! Just goes to show how far off the Audis, Mercedes, BMWs, Cadillacs were, and in some cases, still are.

    Lexus' plan isn't necessarily brilliant. And they aren't trying to build $30k Ferraris.

    They certainly hit it where they ain't, if you will. They just execute. With stunning accuracy.

    Maybe they aren't building Ferraris. But they can fry a stake like a Texan! And I like steak!

    Kinda makes you wonder what Cadillac has been doing all this time? :confuse:

    BTW, congrats to Lexus on winning the 24 Hours at Daytona! :shades: Tru players!

    DrFill
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Chirp! ;-)

    But they can fry a stake like a Texan!

    Doc, I can't imagine longhorns on the grille of an LS.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    It's not that complicated.

    At that point in history, the Japanese had so well established themselves, mostly in the economy area and a notch above, as well as sports cars. Their reputation was almost too-good-to-be-true... spectacular in the eyes of Americans who had been through too many letdowns with the domestics, as well as having been through the energy crisis.

    The U.S. market was literally over-ripe for the Japanese to move into the higher end luxury arena. But cautiously. The secret was to introduce these cars at bargain prices... and boy did they do that. They literally "dumped" 'em.

    The Lexus vehicles were unbelievable bargains compared to their German counterparts. It was all the rage to get so much dependable luxury for such a bargain. After enough years of that, the prices could start to climb and the models could be expanded, but even until now, many of them are still gussied-up Toyotas.

    Brilliant? Yes, for recognizing the Grand Canyon of potential sales. Brilliant? Yes, for marketing these fancy Toyotas at bargain prices and advertising them as though they were equivalent to their German competitors.

    TagMan
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    Then you haven't seen the 2011 Coach Edition, my friend! ;) I'm under contract not to post pics until May 2010...

    DrFill
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    Dang, and you were actually getting it, for a little while! :sick:

    I expect that spin from Hemi and Merc, not from you Tag :confuse:

    Now for The Real.

    Acura was 5 years old, selling well, but cautiously, and not really challenging the establishment (Caddy/Benz/BMW), because they don't build V8s (still?), and wanted to play it safe (still?).

    Lexus and Infiniti (Toyota and Nissan) both had higher aspirations, starting in 1983 at Toyota. They saw two things. One, that the luxury market was.....soft, and in need of a fresh approach, to say the least, with a good size hole in the $30-50k range. And two, the luxury cars of the time weren't any great shakes to begin with!

    So Infiniti attacks with a sporting approach, ala BMW, and Lexus targets Mercedes.

    A tarted-up Camry, and a slightly different Mercedes S-class looked like a Kia Amanti at the time. And NO ONE thought it would be worth a damn!

    But then you sit in the car, turn it on, check the engine specs, see the commercials, check the performance, and then test the thing, and it's like the luxury car is borne again!

    The Infiniti Q45 is great, also! But the LS had "it".

    The "it" was history.

    History was made because the LS made "it" happen! Timing, price, market, marketing were all factors. But it all came down to execution and market analysis. And no one does it better. It's one thing to say you're the stuff. It's another to prove it.

    No one handed Lexus a title belt. The luxury class was there to be had, and Toyota took it, and keeps taking, yet giving.

    Isn't that nice? :D

    And the Lexus LS in 1989 wasn't some "fancy Toyota". It was the greatest car Toyota ever built, could ever build. Other companies couldn't build it either! So Toyota just applied the winning formula, the secret sauce, the magic dust, if you will, to other Lexus/Toyota models, and....well....here we are. Voila! :D

    If only Cadillac (or Audi) were so adept, not inept?

    Now they are left with whatever market Lexus doesn't want. Sloppy seconds.

    Oh well..

    DrFill
  • brightness04brightness04 Posts: 3,151
    Just saw this article on Car and Driver:

    http://www.caranddriver.com/previews/12348/first-drive-2008-bmw-335i-convertible- .html

    Let me get this straight, this new ZF 6sp auto is about as quick as SMG, which as we know is quicker than traditional manual. hmm . . ., perhaps Lexus (and MB) got it right in not taking the SMG detour, given how quickly (pun intended) auto tranny technology is advancing nowadays.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    Who asked for a "quicker manual"?

    What's dat all about? :mad:

    The manual is not the problem. Women doing make-up on the 405......

    DrFill
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    image

    Bad.

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    Horrible.

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    Did they have GM do this one?

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    I'm stunned, its worse than the last one.

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    No, its not a Honda Civic.

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    Also not a Civic.

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    And the award for worst fake wood ever in a luxury car goes to..

    image

    The runner-up for worst fake wood ever, also winner of the least cohesive, most slapstick interior design category.

    image

    Life time achievement\crime against humanity award winner.

    image

    All it needs is a dancing EQ and big speakers that say "SUPER BASS"

    I stand by my statement. Acura's interior guys are, and have always been, hacks. The current TL is the best job they've ever done, and that is very sad.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    And the Lexus LS in 1989 wasn't some "fancy Toyota".

    I expect that spin from Hemi and Merc, not from you Tag

    Doc, Read my post carefully. This is no spin... Here is what I said...

    "The Lexus vehicles were unbelievable bargains compared to their German counterparts. It was all the rage to get so much dependable luxury for such a bargain. After enough years of that, the prices could start to climb and the models could be expanded, but even until now, many of them are still gussied-up Toyotas."

    What is not true about that? C,mon, now... be real with me... what is not true with that? :confuse:

    TagMan
  • "Perhaps you should move yourself to a land where people are not as manipulated by marketing as in the US!

    The biggest the crock that has ever been pulled on humankind is the product called Mercedes! How people will flock to it just because of the 3-pointed star. It wasn't long ago when I walked into a Benz dealer and I pointedly asked the dealer why I should buy a MB over a Acura, Lexus, or BMW. His one and ONLY response....."because it's a mercedes". That says it all! See, now that's manipulation! Oh but I guess the average american is just stupid and you must be the only one that is above manipulation by the media! or is it that you're the one being manipulated by intangibles like the false prestige of a 3-pointed star on the end of the hood or trying to cram down everyone's throat that they should be buying a BMW because handling & performance is all that matters? It seems more like the manipulation is being done on you."


    Maxhonda,

    This is too well said.... I am an owner of a 2007 E350, and I myself am a victim of this Mercedes manipulation, or actually, the people around me. I like some Mercedes models, but I sure am not crazy on a lot of them. I usually like something more unique and different, and that's why I used to drive a Jaguar S-Type (still drive it actually). Unlike Mercedes, which in Orange County, everyone's cousin and his brother pretty much has one, Jaguar is not all over the streets. You might want to ask why I then decided to get an E350, the reason is because most people think Mercedes is a high end car, and being one of the top employees of the company that I work for, my boss naturally thinks I should drive a Mercedes.

    Before I got the E350, I wanted to get an Audi A6, so I asked my sister's opinion. Her reaction after I told her the Audi was going to be around $50,000, she told me for that kind of money I might as well get a Mercedes. Now, my sister doesn't know much about cars, but she knows Mercedes is suppose to be an expensive car... that much she knows.

    In addition, being a single guy, my friends all think I should get a Mercedes because the car will impress the ladies more (I do to like to go the bars at Hollywood). Frankly, I do like the E350, I like the ride, and comfort, but I don't know if it's any better than the Audi A6, Infinti M35, or the Lexus GS, and I sure don't think it should have such premium over the other cars. One thing it does better however, is everyone knows Mercedes. Whether it's a loaded one with all the high tech gizmos, or a stripped one with a $10,000 rebate, a lot of people will think of Mercedes as a more expensive car than its competitors.

    Mercedes has done a wonderful job with the marketing, which reminds me of how DeBeer created the tradition of buying diamonds for women. You wish you had a choice, but your gf will want a diamond no matter what.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Let's look at what LEXUS has had to offer over the years, shall we?.....

    Just look at this Lexus center console...
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    And isn't this impressive?
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    Enough plastic anyone?...
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    A Lexus interior at its best...
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    Another beauty of a Lexus interior...
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    Just love that Lexus color combination, eh?...
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    What a wonderful Lexus steering wheel...
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    One of my favorites... shot out of a shotgun is this monstrosity from Lexus...
    image

    Well, lg, you sure made your point... Lexus interiors over the years are certainly nothing like those Acura interiors...
    :sick:

    TagMan
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Whats wrong with that late '90s ES300? It certainly blows the doors off the TL 3.2 and the Infiniti I30. The GS300\400 wasn't amazing on the inside, but that wood is real, and it beat the pants off the first gen RL, both as a car and in terms of interior design. Same for that late '90s RX. You may not like the design, but the wood's real. The late '90s RX300 sans NAV was not a great effort overall from Lexus. If all you can come up with is two cars though, I'm not impressed.

    EVERY Acura is bad.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    image

    image

    image

    Please show me "Acura's greatest hits" Tag, I'm dying to see that.
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    I'll second what lexusguy said. The wood in every one of your Lexus pics is real.
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    Enjoyed reading your post.
  • ggesqggesq Posts: 701
    I'll take fake wood over a boring motoring experience, thanks.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    I've wondered about the collectibility of the Veyron, too. As expensive as it is, I think it's value will go south like senior Ohioans headed to Florida for the winter, deep and fast.

    Hmm, not sure about that after a '71 Hemi Cuda got 2.2 mil at auction. Veyron brings some serious numbers to the table starting with only 300 being made and being sold at a loss to the company. The price, expensive as it seems, belies the cost to build. Also, we are getting close to the point where certain speed numbers can no longer be broken unless Scotty can beam us up. I'm guessing we'll see it way up there in the auction hit parade down the road.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 6,018
    Nope, you asked for it so I gave it to ya. Enjoy! ;)

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Lexusguy, I notice you put a lot of weight into quality of materials with regard to interior design which to a fine and to be expected with luxury cars. But I always consider the design of the layout first and would rather have an interior that has an aesthetic and fluid sense to it. Wood alone and top shelf materials mean nothing to me if it is not sculpted nicely. You make good points about Acura but Lexus interiors are hardly paradigms, very far from it IMO. For the most part I think they are incongruous and disproportionate, not shapely at all.
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