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High End Luxury Cars

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Comments

  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    The irony is that, traditionally an MB is supposed to be with the owner forever. Using incentives to get a customer back in 24 months is more suitable for un-established brands such as Hyundai.

    Longetivity and luxury went together quite well in the good ole days. Today 24 months is an eternity for ADD afflicted luxruy car drivers. My 83 MB keeps on going and going and going. Longetivity and quality should be a big part of owning a luxury auto. But based on the warranty servicing requirements for BMWs that does not appear to be the case (IMO 15K mile oil changes is idiotic for anybody who wishes to keep their car for more than a few years).

    Or is it that MB positions itself as an underdog (at least in USA)?

    All luxury marques are playing the very same kind of deal game MB is playing. The only difference is MB is currently the most successful growth luxury auto company in USA. The MB S Class is one hot selling car indeed!
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Greenhouse Warming warnings are gaining big currency in Germany as they are in the rest of the world (even George W. himself, can you believe it?). There are many German politicans boasting on the need for speed limits for the Autobahn in order to reduce emissions.

    IMO speed limits in the Autobahn would be the equivalent of a death knell for German performance vehicles.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    LG, I saw the Top Gear review of the XKR VS Vantage V8. I was very impressed with how balanced it looked while being driven hard. It was the best looking coupe at the auto show period.

    I think Jag's engineers really nailed the perfect balance between ride and handling. It wouldn't be nearly as at home on the track as the 911, but I think it would embarrass the SL550.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    IMO speed limits in the Autobahn would be the equivalent of a death knell for German performance vehicles.

    Ultimately, technology can solve what technology has caused.

    Limiting speed is a band-aid approach and a ridiculous one at that.

    BTW, welcome back, Dewey.... missed ya.

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    I think Jag's engineers really nailed the perfect balance between ride and handling. It wouldn't be nearly as at home on the track as the 911, but I think it would embarrass the SL550.

    Definately agree. Would like to see how well or poorly the SL would stack up though.

    TagMan
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,922
    Please don't accuse me of saying that you could not comment on a car without owning one. Where did that come from? I certainly never said it.

    For what it is worth, I have owned two Mercedes in the past. They were nothing special but both fairly good cars. One diesel one gas. It is just that, IMO, Lexus has surpassed them in the last few years and taken the HELC crown away from them.

    Just look at the sales data and tell me what reasonable person would not agree. The LS and the S compete in the same category and the LS beats the S in sales in the U.S.every year. The reason for this is that the LS is the better car. It is faster, built better, more reliable, holds it value better and is sold through the best, most courteous dealerships in the country.

    Oh yes, the LS is about $20,000. per copy less expensive than the S. Not because it is less car but simply because Lexus has a tremendous advantage in labor and other manufacturing costs. Final CHECKMATE.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Limiting speed is a band-aid approach and a ridiculous one at that.

    Thanks for the welcome back.

    I remember driving in Montana many years ago and I was impressed by the lack of speed limits on their highways(if there were speed limits I was not aware of them) . My enjoyment immediately disappeared as I passed the Canadian border and was on the lookout for patrol cars.
  • I get what you're saying, but just wish they would offer the steering & suspension upgrades for the SWB. I know I'm a sample of 1, but I'm close to trading up and I want something killer, just not extended that far.

    Really just getting underway researching, which is why I've been lurking. Under 200 length is about all I'd want to fit in the garage.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    You thought of the E-Class? LOT of car for the money. At least you owe it to yourself to check it out first-hand.

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    My enjoyment immediately disappeared as I passed the Canadian border and was on the lookout for patrol cars.

    Patrol cars?... you mean those guys up there aren't on horseback? ;)

    TagMan
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,922
    It's true. I don't like the Lexus LS. I guess it would be fair to explain this. As I said in one of my previous posts, the Lexus LS is great at isolating the driver from the road and surroundings... instead of connecting the driver to the road. This is a big difference, IMO. I definately prefer to be connected to the road and not disconnected from it.

    You give this as your first and foremost reason for not liking the LS and then admit that you haven't even driven the 07 LS? I don't think that answers Pat's question at all!! Merely adds more credance to it!!

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    ...the LS is the better car. It is faster, built better, more reliable, holds it value better and is sold through the best, most courteous dealerships in the country.

    Impossible to objectively say it is a better car. It is more reliable, but not by a boatload. It is not built better, as I have looked closely and seen more plastic on the LS. I don't think that makes it better. And the gaps have gotten larger on the LS while they have gotten tighter on the S-Class. Any differences are negligable at this point.

    Best dealership? That's a laugh. I'll go to every Mercedes store here and then every Lexus store and overall the Mercedes stores are nicer facilities, and the folks are more pleasant. The last visit I made to a Lexus dealership, I was met with the attitude of smugness and snobbery, while at the Mercedes dealership, I was even taken to lunch! When I owned my Mercedes vehicles, service couldn't have been more pleasant, with all sorts of food and transportation available as well as a kid's area, and tv, etc. No advantage to Lexus at all with regards to dealerships. If anything, it's the other way around!

    The ONLY single thing that is factually better for the LS is the reliability. The LS does not handle or perform as well, and the acceleration times are very close, and vary from one review to another. As far as performance goes, they NEVER vary. The S-Class ALWAYS outperforms the LS.

    Styling? That is not a factual attribute, but most reviewers prefer the S-Class's more dramatic exterior styling, and the interioris night and day. The LS uses the same old dash and center stack/console layout that's been used over and over again in cars of all price categories.

    It DISCONNECTS the driver from the road. Is that better? The S-Class CONNECTS the driver to the road. Now, THAT's better, IMO.

    Sorry, houdinin, but other than the old reliability thing, you've got NUTTIN to go by.

    TagMan
  • Yup. Haven't ruled out too much other than cars too long for the garage don't want to go over 100K, but wasn't sure the E fit this discussion. When I do go I want a crack at the E63. Haven't been able to find much on here re that one.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Well, to be fair, you would expect to be given the royal treatment when you are recognized as a MB customer back again in the MB showroom.

    Whenever I visit BMW, they toss me the keys of any new BMW that I want to drive. I expect to get first hand knowledge of the new diesels that way. As soon as they come off the boat, I'm there! :shades:
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    You give this as your first and foremost reason for not liking the LS and then admit that you haven't even driven the 07 LS? I don't think that answers Pat's question at all!! Merely adds more credance to it!!

    Ridiculous! I've exposed myself to as many of these cars and looked at them closely as well as anyone here on this forum. I've driven the LS430 multiple times. I've read every review I know of on the LS460. There is ZERO indication that it connects to the road, and EVERY indication that it quietly floats along with little feedback and isolates the driver from the road and environment in general. An isolated quiet tomb, remember?

    I will eventually drive it, but until then, I stand by every remark I have made and believe they are sufficiently credible. I've listened to other's experiences and read every post here from those that drove it. I spent an awful lot of time looking over those LS vehicles and sitting in them and examining them from front to back and inside and out.

    And I certainly don't have to drive it to know I dislike its boring style, both interior and exterior.

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    As soon as they come off the boat, I'm there!

    Me, too! To get that royal treatment, I'll just have to disguise myself as you! Unfortunately I don't think that is possible. ;)

    TagMan
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Whenever I am at the dealer, I sit in every BMW except one, the 7! BMW just doesn't do HEL well!

    I guess if BMW does a 7 Series promotion, they could call it HEL Week. ;)

    By the by, that new BMW convertible felt great!
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    You are right. Not on topic, but definately check out the E63. Reviews are excellent as well.

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    LOL. They have no idea... fortunately. :)
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    I deleted the comment about the dealers recognizing certain posters, but of course there is no way! :blush:

    RIGHT???? :surprise:
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Perhaps you caught my lettle mention of the upcoming BMW convertible with the retractible hardtop? And , of course, with that sweet 300 hp twin-turbo engine?

    My secret plan is to get the wife to trade in that oversized Jag... and convince her she'll have much more fun in that Bimmer. (Of course, so will I!)

    TagMan
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    And , of course, with that sweet 300 hp twin-turbo engine?

    It's the sweetest of the sweet engines out there whether it's in the form of a sedan or a covertible coupe. The engine in itself is worth the price of the car. (at least IMO), especially with the way some HELCs are priced.

    I am one happy owner :shades:
  • have driven both, pretty hard around a track actually.
    [numerous times]

    I got out of the LS very impressed, I got out of the S class and forgot the LS. It's nice, just no where near the "drivers car" that the S is.

    "I don't have to stick my head up a bulls [non-permissible content removed] to know I like steak"
    Chris Farley
    Tommy Boy
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Great post!

    Just consider the huge number, maybe even the vast majority, of LS buyers that have placed deposits down and purchased the car without ever having even driven it!!!!!

    Maybe, just maybe, if they had tested the vehicles the way you did, they'd have seen things differently. But then again, some of them might be frightened from being connected to the road, and there's always that "reliability" thing... frightened that the S-Class will fall apart in their driveway into a bucket of bolts right before their very eyes... and the embarassment of all the neighbors witnessing that lemon being towed away.... NO WAY!... it's much safer to be reliably disconnected. ;)

    TagMan
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Let's lighten up on the personal insinuations and get back to talking about the vehicles themselves. We are not here to talk about each other nor are we here to talk about caricatures of imaginary purchasers.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    I sat in it 2 weeks ago in the showroom. None on the lot to drive, unfortunately.
    No twin turbos of any sort as dealer demos.

    I shall return! :)
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    If you ultimately accomplish a test, let me know what you think of it. If I get a chance this next week, I'll pay a visit to my local BMW dealer and scope things out and I'll report back to you. Wonder if there's any chance I might get that "Royal Treatment" from a BMW dealer? :confuse:

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    The way you keep showing up, I might have to perform a little of that "R & D" you recently posted about...
    as in "Running & Ducking". ;)

    TagMan
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Tell 'em powders sent ya. Then DUCK!!! ;)

    I will go there sometime in March to re-check out the merchandise. I will be asking if they heard anything about the diesels. I hope to find at least one twin-turbo to drive. :shades:

    Across the pond they are raving about BMW combining
    twin-turbos WITH diesels! I'm starting to get light-headed! :surprise:

    If BMW came out with a twin-turbo diesel 7 Series, I am capable of completely forgeting about the Audi A8!
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    :D

    They've got a lot going on! What scares me is that I'll buy one, and within 6 months something even more incredible will become available. :confuse:

    TagMan
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