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High End Luxury Cars

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  • anthonypanthonyp Posts: 1,857
    Tag----I to enjoyed your post, and found it very similar to my past experience with my last Lexus....I could almost feel exactly what you spoke of as I am so familiar with Lexus.....I`m sure it is an improvement over old, but still Lexus....I look forward to your experience with the A8...It is a really rounded auto, and I`m still enjoying it, except for this week as it is down where the sun shines and I am driving an older Honda accord of a friend..Enjoying the no frills, zippy drive...Tony
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Tag----I to enjoyed your post, and found it very similar to my past experience with my last Lexus....I could almost feel exactly what you spoke of as I am so familiar with Lexus.....I`m sure it is an improvement over old, but still Lexus....I look forward to your experience with the A8...

    I'm trying to work out a couple of glitches in my schedule to drive the A8 and the S550 back to back, for a better comp. If I'm really lucky I'll drive them both tomorrow or Thursday. You'll know about it, I promise! :)

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Speaking of Audi, here's just another feather in Audi's cap:

    link title

    TagMan
  • Less than 10% of Mercedes sold in Europe are S-class. The overwhelming majority of Mercedes sold in Europe are A,B and C classes. The majority of E class sold in Europe are essentially taxicab varieties that have are more lowly equipped than the lowest E class sold here in the US, with 1.8L, 2L, 2.2L, and 2.8L engines.

    2006 witnessed Lexus sales in Europe increase by 76%! Lexus is just getting started there.

    The LS sales in Europe are something less than 0.0000000000000000000000000000000001% of the S-Class

    Considering that only about 100k S class were sold worldwide last year. 0.0000000000000000000000000000000001% of 100k cars would be like, hmm, a license bracket? a screw or some paint chip? Are you sure that Lexus dealers in Europe did not even manage to sell a license bracket or a few screws for an LS? Lack of math skills really does not contribute to the strength of anyone's argument.
  • The difference between S320 pricing in 2005 and 300D in 1983 is 22 years, the same two decades in which MB did a thorough hash job of trashing its reliability reputation. History is the only guidance we have for anticipating future. Unless you believe the marque prestige of S class is only 10 months old, history certainly matters . . . a bit ironic if MB advocates need to be reminded of that.
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    Thanks for your thoughts, tagman. In my brief drives at TOL I too felt the steering was too light.

    It sounds like you didn't have a car with the air suspension....that would have had a switch with a "sport" setting for the suspension (as distinguished from the "power/normal/snow" switch, which all cars including air suspension cars have, that governs the drivetrain, primarily keeping the car in lower gears longer when in power mode). Don't know how much of a difference the "sport" switch makes to handling characteristics, as I drove both times in "sport"....and I didn't drive the 7 or S at that event because the lines were overly long.

    The hesitation issue is something that there was a TSB for on the old LS....dealers could fix it at no cost. I'm surprised the problem is still there on the new LS...that's a failure on Lexus' part.

    I am more and more attracted to the A8, exterior-styling-wise, and at this point view it as prettier than the S. Haven't driven either, but from what I understand, I am probably going to prefer the ride of the S over the A8. Anyway, those 2 and the LS are on my shopping list for next winter, once the LS460 AWD is hopefully available.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 6,020
    Well here you go, grandstanding again! Crawling out of a Porsche and climbing into any luxury sedan is going to leave the luxury sedan somewhat wanting in the "feel" dept, don't you think?

    It would be sort of like jumping on a trampoline and then just jumping up and down on the floor. Big difference in perception.

    Of course we all know how unreliable first hand experience and eye witness accounts can be. So what are you going to believe, your own faulty and imperfect impressions or what your ol' buddy Houdini tells you?

    Okay, I'm kidding. Good post and I enjoyed it. You are to be commended for actually going out and driving one of the autos that we endlessly discuss here. Good job. :)

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    "DaimlerChrysler executives are working on a secret restructuring plan dubbed "Project X", to be unveiled on Feb. 14, which calls for unprecedented sharing of vehicle architectures and parts between Chrysler and Mercedes, including developing small cars and SUVs together, the report added.

    The newspaper also reported that the plan outlines deep cost cuts, plant closings, a reduction of factory shifts and employee buyouts aimed at slashing more than 10,000 blue-collar jobs. The likely closures will include an assembly plant in Newark, Del., and an engine plant in Detroit.

    The newspaper, citing people familiar with the situation, said Chrysler and Mercedes will collaborate on their next generation of small cars built in the U.S. and Germany. Also, work is under way on a common SUV architecture for the Mercedes M-class and Chrysler's Jeep Grand Cherokee and Dodge Durango.

    Besides developing vehicles together, Project X calls for Chrysler and Mercedes to expand purchasing of common parts like steering columns, and to source more components from low-wage nations in Asia, the newspaper said." -C&D

    Not good. I would hope that the 2015 C-class isn't a rebadged Chrysler Sebring.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    "DaimlerChrysler executives are working on a secret restructuring plan dubbed "Project X", to be unveiled on Feb. 14, which calls for unprecedented sharing of vehicle architectures and parts between Chrysler and Mercedes, including developing small cars and SUVs together, the report added.

    How appropriate that the unprecedented "sharing" will be announced on Valentines Day!

    TagMan
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,914
    Maybe they'll say it by exchanging personalized M&Ms

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  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    How appropriate that the unprecedented "sharing" will be announced on Valentines Day!

    The dates of Feb. 14, 2007 and Feb. 14, 1929 will both be remembered by both MB fans and Chicagoans as The St. Valentine's Day Massacre. :sick:

    Lexusguy I hate saying these words but I will say them anyways---"I Told You So" :P
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    My point was that you were wrong when you claimed that the $20K difference between the current LS and S Class disappears . Both cars are currently hot sellers and both of them are within their first year of introduction. MSRP is highly relevant and great lease deals are scant for both of them.

    That's all nothing more.
  • are we discussing cars, or candy?
  • Both cars have been discounted ever since the new LS has propagated through the distribution network. Full MSRP is only close to reality for about 8 months in a 6-8 year model cycle when only one of them is a brand new design. As soon as competition is there readily available, discounting starts for both. That's just how capitalistic markets work. Using the first 8 months of S market premium when the new LS was not even on the market as a guage to assess the real market premium of S marque is quite erroneous. Even in those first 8 months, only a minority went out and got an S class without a put option at the other end of its first-owner service life.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Full MSRP is only close to reality for about 8 months in a 6-8 year model cycle when only one of them is a brand new design.

    If you can prove that... which we will have to wait and see if you can.... it doesn't address the point anyway about your other erroneous statement concerning the $20K. Unless you can substantiate and/or source these wild statements, they have little meaning other than to exercise the imagination.

    TagMan
  • Tag, are you actually demanding proof that cars get discounted in the bulk of a model cycle? Both S and LS are being discounted now even as we speak. How long has S been on the market? The $20k was cited as evidence of the marque value of S over LS. Since neither S or LS are marques invented for Model Year 07, we have a very good track record of what kind of premiums each marque really command in the market place for much of a typical model cycle. One has to have no prior experience with this segment at all in order to characterize my statements as "wild"; either that, or have too short of a memory :-)
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    "L'Equipe, France's biggest automotive authority compared the top luxury cars against each other.

    The results:

    1. Mercedes Benz S500

    2. Audi A8

    3. Jaguar XJ8

    4. BMW 750i

    5. Lexus LS460 "

    Pretty much confirms my opinion of the BMW 7. It doesn't really belong in a category where luxury is and should be emphasized.

    Motivates me to drive the A8! :shades:
  • Audi always does quite well in emerging markets; Korean market only opened up to imports by removing astronomical tariffs in recent years; the current run-rate, as the article indicated, is only about 4k cars a month, all imports combined, still very small market for imports (set to grow exponentially, I'm sure, just like most other emerging markets). A6 with 4-cyl turbo or 5-cyl is a very decent market entry in markets where gas is expensive and most local cars are still in the sub-2liter range; the size is right too for "executive sedan" for many of those markets.

    Interesting to note from the same article, however, the best sellig imported HELC there is actually the LS460. I would have thought Japanese imports would have faced non-economicly-based objections in the Korean market. Perhaps Lexus should offer an ES250 to do battle with the A6 2.4 in markets like Korea; the 3.5 liter engine in ES350 is just too big where gas is expensive.
  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    Just in! Audi, BMW and Mercedes-Benz worldwide sales for the month of January:

    BMW- 80,629

    Audi- 75,150

    Mercedes-Benz- 73,500

    Yes, you read that right. As of now, Audi is ahead of Mercedes. Perhaps the trend will continue and Audi will be #2 this year. Nonetheless, all are very close.

    '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet • '04 Lexus RX330
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    we have a very good track record of what kind of premiums each marque really command in the market place for much of a typical model cycle.

    Where is this track record you speak of? Who has the data on it?

    TagMan
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    Your test of the LS basically corraborated what I thought of the new LS.

    Is a good luxury, but the execution is just not there and thus the is not pace-setting as some would like to believe.

    The interior for me is the biggest letdown. The grade of plastics used are not up to par with these prices, and are making GM look quite good.(the new GMT900 truck/SUV interiors are world class now). Was not expecting much in the way of a radical shift in performance as that is not what the LS is about. It would for sure lose it's core customer base if they build a 7 or A8 chaser in terms of performance.

    The usual Lexus qualities are ever present: Tranquility, practicality, and luxury.

    But the value is long gone considering that the LWB is priced matching the S-Class with options. It closes in on 100k(the unit I drove was 94.5k)
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    Glad to be of service.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    "BMW-80,629"

    Yes!!!

    A fine tribute to the Chris Bangle world-wide revolution!
    He gave BMW a well-needed sales catalyst with his amazing creations.

    Predictably, other manufacturers are attempting to plag...ummm..."copy" his inspirations; unsuccessfully, I might add! :shades:

    With the anticipation of the BMW diesels soon to be in the USA and then liquid hydrogen (by 2020 in the USA) with virtually zero emissions (with 9 speed records) combined with Chris Bangle's innovations in design, there will be no stopping BMW!! :surprise:
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    link title

    No, I'm not the person offering it up for sale, just thought it was interesting.
  • A report on Fourtitude says that Audi will release both the A5, and S5 at the same time sometime this fall. They will both debut at the Geneva auto show in March.

    This new platform [MLP] pushes everything back from over the front axle. This new engineering, while still not offering perfect 50/50 weight distribution, puts Audi in a better place to knock the 3 series from the throne than any other manufacturer IMO.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    This new engineering, while still not offering perfect 50/50 weight distribution, puts Audi in a better place to knock the 3 series from the throne, than any other manufacturer IMO.

    Personally, I don't think anyone will knock the 3-series off the throne... just make little dents here and there.

    Consider another contender to come... the new C-Class AMG variant may turn out to be a genuine monster delivering real numbers to back it up.

    TagMan
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    Tag, lets not forget the the new CTS, which coincidentally, has near 50/50 weight distribution and is now over the magical 300hp barrier now.
  • I am thinking about leasing a used
    745i/S500/CLS500 and would like to find out what are the pros/cons of each car.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Hemi - Are you talking about the '08 CTS that arrives this fall? That's a 300hp V6 with AWD available. I'd be concerned about torque out of that 6 cylinder. The new M3 will be a V8.

    TagMan
  • doesn't come with a stick in the highest power offering.[what are they thinking] and Cadillac has a way to go to convince me of anything. [see Lexus]

    But there's more to it than weight distribution, although that's a lot. Steering, gear box, chassis. All those things come in to play.

    Look how great Porsche is with completely ridiculous weight distribution.

    Infiniti hasn't done it yet because of quality of materials, and a poor clutch. Audi's got those thing's better than BMW IMO.

    Oh well, can't wait for Geneva.
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