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High End Luxury Cars

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Comments

  • fsvfsv Posts: 196
    Don, what was/is the actual gas mileage on your Q's - my Lincoln LS was burning much more comparing to what they said it should be burning... And how bad was the maintenance so far?
  • libertycatlibertycat Posts: 593
    M45 makes perfect sense, shame on you, J/K. But M45 vs. Q45 is just like GS300/430 vs. LS430. Different prices, different classes, different objectives. Q45 is a direct LS competitor, M45 is direct GS competitor.
  • fsvfsv Posts: 196
    Is it again emotions flying, or it's only me?
    M45 is pointles; as opposite to any well executed car that makes a statement as the benchmark in styling, handling, performance & engineering sophistication. M45 is, may be, not a bad car by itself, wouldn't be out there and prior to it's existance Q45; in this situation, with Q45 being so poorly advertised and undermarketed, a car, that has the same size, same engine, same performance, nearly the same interior, and pricetag nearly 20G's lower (in real sales prices) + the car is plain ugly + still lagging behind against it's competition such as BMW540, Audi A6, Lexus GS400 is pointless. You have one excellent car, that is still a lame duck in sales, and now you put on sales floor nearly the same thing - which sells even worse, but competes with your own struggling flagship... And you have to discount this car nearly 20% - it is a killer for the image of a luxury brand. Situation is not like BMW745/BMW545 (or is it 540?) - same engine which is adequate on the bigger car makes smaller car speed demon. It is simply very awkward situation. The only good variable here is that C. Ghosh is still running Nissan, and this situation hopefully will not last long, and he'll straighten it out. M45 is not more than a placeholder for the market segment (I believe it is built on the japanise Sima platform(hope this is correct name), and Q45 in the current form will not last long, and previous gen. Maxima fate is awaiting them - soon better cars will replace though good, but uninspiring current cars. And, we should hand it to Ghosh - look at the parade of Altima, G35, Maxima, coming Titan, Murano. It's not a big deal, to make a mistake, as long as it is corrected promptly.

    P.S. don't misunderstand me - I love Q45 and already love M45 for them being excellent cars, that have devastating depriciation in two years. Better than that could be cash given to me only...
  • aramusaramus Posts: 5
    After work today, I am taking delivery of a 2003 Q 45. It is the 5th Q 45 that I have leased, starting with a 91. They have all been exceptionally reliable cars and I have enjoyed each one. The 2000 that I am returning, looks and drives as if it was new.
    One thing not mentioned in any of the posts concerning the comparison to other luxury cars is the large difference in the real cost of a lease. I will be paying approximately 2/3 the price of a lease of a 745 or a S 500. The way I see it, I'm getting a car that is 95% or more of the competition, at a bargain price.
  • fsvfsv Posts: 196
    Aramus, congrats, good choice, enjoy the car!!!
    If I may ask, what are the lease terms?
  • fennfenn Posts: 197
    Congrats to Aramus... .... I think that the current Q45 is the best bargain on a lease basis. Lots of content at a great price. I really like my 2002 Q... The only reason that I am looking to jump ship is that I do not want to drive the same exact car for another two years, and the Audi and 2004 Jag XJ8 are very appealing....

    As for the M45, there is no doubt that this was not a long term development project. It was a "quickie" new model based on an existing chassis and components. It is a price leader in its class for the HP that it offers....... It is a decent car that has a very nice big V8 engine, at a good price.

    Yes, Libertycat, you can compare an M45 to a Q45 as a comparison of two different model classes, much like a GS series vs LS series Lexus... However, both Lexus models underwent their own independent development and evolution. The M45 is more of a late comer, built from the Nissan/Infiniti parts bin. It has a Q45 engine and dash put into a 5 year old Nissan chassis. The car had to live with the limitations of the body size and chassis, so interior is cramped, and the trunk is small.....I am not really trying to knock the M45. I am just saying that it is not "the state of the art" car that Infiniti needs in this class. Worse yet, putting so much of the Q45's good stuff in a cheaper car only hurts the current Q45.

    When the "new" Infiniti comes out with the 2005-2006 replacements for the Q45 and M45, I am betting that you will see some fresh ideas and innovation.
  • jagboyxtypejagboyxtype Posts: 241
    "The only reason that I am looking to jump ship is that I do not want to drive the same exact car for another two years, and the Audi and 2004 Jag XJ8 are very appealing...."

    Here's the latest from Car & Driver:

    2004 Audi A8 4.2:
    http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_- - - id=6853&page_number=1

    2004 Jaguar XJR:
    http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_- id=6849&page_number=1

    Just a note on that XJ, the color in the C&R pictures is not a standard available color on the XJR - "Quartz" is only available as a standard color on the XJ8 and Vanden Plas; the tested XJR had a $1,000 extra for its special custom paint. Don't ask me about the logic there - the paint is a standard color on every other car Jaguar produces.
  • dwongswongdwongswong Posts: 63
    Here are my ratings of what luxury cars I would like to have:

    1) Audi A8L
    2) Mercedes S500
    3) BMW 745Li
    4) Mercedes E500
    5) Lexus LS430/Infiniti Q45 (tie)

    My ratings are based on these criterias:

    1) exterior looks
    2) interior looks and feels
    3) quality of fit and finish
    4) bang for the bucks
    5) reliability

    I would have ranked the Japanese cars higher if they looked as good as the Germans.

    My rankings for luxury suv's:

    1) Range Rover
    2) Lexus LX470
    3) VW Toureg
    4) Porsche Cayenne
    5) BMW X5 4.6

    I also wanted to say that this is a discussion on cars. It is based on ones' opinions and experiences with the cars. Some people take these opinions too seriously. Remember this is based on subjectivity. Your opinion is right for you, and my opinion is right for me. There really is no right or wrong. If you like the car, then good for you. If you don't, then say so so that others can view your opinions and make a judgement on whether to purchase the car or not. There is never a need to take a harsh tone with anyone. I've been on the receiving end as well as some of the others that I have read on the board. As always, drive safely out there.
  • jagboyxtypejagboyxtype Posts: 241
    Well, my own tastes in cars differs from your own in terms of these luxury cars - though I respect your opinion. But I can totally relate on that last part - very well put; I agree 100% with you there.

    You all would probably say I'd choose the XJ-Series as my favorite of the bunch, and if that is your guess, you are correct. However, I don't dislike any of the cars of this class either - okay, the trunk on the 7 is not to my liking, but it is a nice car even though it's not my favorite; I see no point in hating or disliking any car, though being apathetic is understandable. For SUV's, I actually like the Cayenne - despite all of the criticism aimed at it - and the Range Rover, but that's for another board.
  • libertycatlibertycat Posts: 593
    The Q45 has full-size leg room while the M45 has mid-size front and compact rear leg room according to reviews.
  • ksurgksurg Posts: 48
    Sorry I didn't mean to say you can't be rational and have fun. It's just lately some of the posts are getting brutal. There's a lot of subjectiveness when it comes to rating cars. I remember when JDP evaluated initial interior quality based on number of imperfections. Ever compare a hand made car with quality leather to a plastic and vinyl interior. I have and guess what... the cheap interior was "more perfect." Though Toyota may indeed have captured the hybrid market there is other technology on the horizon. And especially as things stand now, no one manufacturer has the auto market cornered. I hope for all our sakes the competition continues. I'm glad you like Lexus, merc1 prefers MB, DonFenn votes Jaguar and bmwseller sells BMW. You are all well informed, savvy consumers. All I was trying to get across is people have different tastes and that's OK.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Your take on the Q45/M45 situation is exactly right. They did go for the 745/540 relationship, but it's very poorly executed. The M45 is basically an Americanized, Japanese market Cedric/Gloria.

    aramus,

    There is no way a Q45 is %95 of those cars, they simply out-class, and outdo the Q45 is way too many areas. If it were truly that way the Q would be a lot more popular like the car that truly is closer to being a high percentage of what the competition offers, that car being the LS430.

    jagboyxtype,

    Imagine that, you and I both like Porsche's "truck". Who would have thunk it.

    M
  • I like your rating system catagories...although we all would probably have our own individual order of importance ...

    I am assuming that prestige is including in the looks category and I would also give MB the top mark there....

    However Lexus scores #1 in the other 4 categories why did you rate it down with the Q45?
  • fsvfsv Posts: 196
    There is some size difference, but I drove both, and honestly, couldn't see it so much - both cars, somehow, don't seem particularly spacious inside. Could pls someone share info re. current leases for both cars, based on actual experience - would greatly appreciate it.
    May be I am wrong, and beauty is in the eye of beholder, but I still don't know, how Lexus outdoes Q45 - Q45 looks better, more athletic and cosmopolitan and less particularly japanise (unlike Lex), both cars have nearly the same amenities; I like Q45's 340 ponies, etc. And Lexus - everybody has it: I hate to be part of the herd. And, in the way everybody is having a Lexus - to me, there is some vulgarity in it. Paying so much money ideally should give you some freedom, at least freedom of your mind and choice - why everybody still prefers to have freedom of choosing the same uniform? That's why, also, I like Q45 - it's underdog status, which is confronting Lexus/Mercedes duo, makes it nearly antiestablishment; I like give people chance, and I don't think choosing Q45 over any other car in this category would be a mistake.
  • libertycatlibertycat Posts: 593
    Besides the XJ Type, I think it is the best. So second place in the ultra luxury class for me. It has great interior and especially exterior styling, a VERY powerful engine, LOTS of room, 95% of the features of it's competitors for 15% less, plus it DOESN'T have the features people don't want (iDrive, etc.). It is WAY better than 7 Series, S Class, and LS430 and equal to A8 and XJ Type.
  • fennfenn Posts: 197
    Merc1 said "There is no way a Q45 is %95 of those cars, they simply out-class, and outdo the Q45 is way too many areas. If it were truly that way the Q would be a lot more popular like the car that truly is closer to being a high percentage of what the competition offers, that car being the LS430."..............
     
    I disagree that with this simplistic stance, using sales as the determining factor. (Merc1, based on sales figures, your Mitsubishi is not a very strong car either, but I assume that you like it)

    The Q45 does offer many similar attributes to other cars. They may have missed on the styling and curb appeal, but it is a very nice car with lots of content and a nice power train. On a lease basis it is "a nice drive"... and it does offer similarities to some of the more costly cars in this class.

    Do I like the new A8 better? Sure, I may even buy one. But, the Audi also costs about 15k more when similarly equipped.
  • libertycatlibertycat Posts: 593
    Well, excuse me, the styling of the Q45 is IMO the BEST IN CLASS. Better than A8 and XJ Type and way better than S Class and 7 Series and WAY WAY better than LS430.
  • fennfenn Posts: 197
    Styling is very subjective. Libertycat, I am glad that you like it.

    I have "no axe to grind" against Infiniti... since I own a 2002 Q45, which is my fifth Q45 since 1990.
  • libertycatlibertycat Posts: 593
    Congratulations! Enter the Guinness Book of Records "Most Infiniti Q45s owned" LOL!
  • jagboyxtypejagboyxtype Posts: 241
    Some people don't care for the Q's styling, with the "gatling gun headlights" and all of those comments, but I find the car to be very attractive inside and out, and intriguing. I've only driven one in relatively a relatively short drive, but it seems up to the standards of its competitors in most respects. My personal preferences in areas such as performance, technology, styling, and ride, etc. still make the XJ tops in my opinion for this class, but the Q45 is one great car too. I honestly think the Q's a good looking, classy car. I don't care for the M's styling so much, but that's just me, and I haven't driven it yet, so it may surprise me - I don't dislike it at all though.

    DonFenn-

    I agree with you on your view of the "simplistic stance". If sales were a determining factor in telling how great a car is, then all of those Camry and Corolla buyers must be seeing something that we're not. The Q just suffers from being a less-well-known offering in a market with well established and not necessarily better competiton. I don't know about others here, but the first few names that pop into *my* head when I think "high-end luxury" for a nano-second are Mercedes and Jaguar. Further thought then leads to BMW, Lexus, Audi,.......... Infiniti. The Q just doesn't have its name thrown around so much that the public knows about it, but that doesn't make it an underperformer in any way compared to the competition in terms of the car you get. And what it lacks in sales, it gains back in exclusivity and uniqueness; it's not being another "cookie-cutter" overly mass-produced so-called "luxury" car that is used as a taxi cab in Germany.

    Merc1-

    I'm just wondering, why would you purchase a Japanese car when in your opinion European cars are so superior in every aspect? A nice C-Class is only a few thousand more than a Mitsubishi, especially for the Spyder.
  • fsvfsv Posts: 196
    A Mitsubishi is not a car...

    Just kidding.
    Still nobody want's to tell me how much they leased the car for. I'll be annoyingly whining in 5 minutes. Ah-a-a-a...
  • libertycatlibertycat Posts: 593
    He means the Eclipse, OBVIOUSLY. There is no Galant Spyder or Montero Spyder.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    Rolls Royce is THE name for sheer luxury but is now joined by the Maybach.
        Cadillac name was forever tarnished when GM put Cadillac on the Chevy Cavalier and on an Opel and now with Cadillac on a Chevy Avalanche.
  • libertycatlibertycat Posts: 593
    Those are exotic luxury sedans, we are talking about ultra luxury sedans. Only about $200,000 difference.
  • fsvfsv Posts: 196
    You'll be shocked to find out how well this truck-Caddy sells in my "Soprano's" loving neighbourhood... Escalade also sells well in NY, btw especially in inner cities - has some curb appeal to the certain type customer. In a way Caddy has opened for itself some new customer base. But, generally, I should say, Caddy churns out more and more attractive cars. A while ago I nearly fell for DTS...

    On Q45 styling - it may use some work, of course, but what would work greatly for this car, would be slightly stretched version of the car, like Audi has slightly longer A8. And, visually it would be more appealing. And in general, they could make it slightly roomier inside. Same, as they did to Maxima - same engine, bigger car; not only people who are loyalist went after it, but the guys who would normally go for other brands switched to it. Incidently, is Max roomier than Q45? Hm, let me think....
  • libertycatlibertycat Posts: 593
    I LOVE THE DTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and DHS. They have the prettiest interiors of any sedans on the market today. I wouldn't be shocked about well-selling Escalades and EXTs. They sell well everywhere. They have curb appeal and are the dream of everyone to own.
  • libertycatlibertycat Posts: 593
    will compete in this class. So watch out class leaders Q45 and XJ Type.
  • fsvfsv Posts: 196
    Fine with me. As I said, I am the secondary market... I buy them two years old (except the ones for my wife, who wants (and gets) only new cars to show off to her girlfriends - but most of you guys will now how this particular part of your life works). But, a 2-3 year old luxocruiser is still better than the Accord she gets, he-he.
  • fennfenn Posts: 197
    It is nice to see that there are Q45 supporters here.

    Unfortunately, for whatever reason, Infiniti has stopped any significant effort in marketing the car, and passed on any tweaks or updates of significance for the 2004 model year...Meanwhile, Lexus is giving an update to the LS430 and BMW is going to clean up the rear fascia of the 7 series. Both of these models were unveiled within about 6 months of the current Q45, and they are still getting some freshening for 2004 ....Why not the Q45?

    Infiniti is just leaving the Q45 as-is with a new color option and a minor transmission shift modification. It is as if they just gave up on this Q45..That is why I am looking elsewhere for my next car.

    With respect to the Q45's size...The interior is spacious from the driver's seat. I am 6'3" and I find my seating very ample. The problem is that the backseat is relatively cramped.
  • libertycatlibertycat Posts: 593
    The LS430 was on sale in 2000, a whole year before the Q45 and the 7 Series was getting so much criticism about its styling that BMW had to restyle it.
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