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High End Luxury Cars

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Comments

  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    Like it or not, the A8 is here to stay. Low exports to the States or high, the car has a great following of people that own them.

    BTW: The A8 and S are often neck and neck in Europe and elsewhere. Often times, the A8 will outsell the S, especially before the '07. So again, these baseless facts that have come about by yourself and others are just that: baseless and tired. The A8 is limited by export only on the restraint that the company has because they build them as fast as they sell. If Lexus sold as many LS' in the native Asia as they do here, then it'll be the same way. But then again, the A8 does outsell it there too, by quite a margin.

    And more on the "value" quotent of the LS. Yes, it does win here. But a fully opted LS(average transaction of 70k) is where the big guns usually start, the A8, XJ, and 7. And with the average transaction of a S550 nowadays at 92-95k, it seems that the LS is the discount of the class. And with prices moving up only slightly, it's likely to stay that way. So in that saying, you really do get what you pay for...

    The LJ v. Audi of America case has been thrown out, so why retry it??
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,770
    What a great post. The exact same thoughts that I had but could never have expressed them as well. Thank you.

    Even in the best of times some people buy stocks and lose money, some people buy houses and lose money, and nearly everyone who buys a depreciating asset like a car loses money. Some just lose much more than they should.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460

  • emaussemauss Posts: 151
    Oh, I see. So I guess one can no longer lease an MB at a low or "reasonable" rate since.."many of (the leasing companies) went bankrupt or stopped underwriting leases as a result (..of subsidizing MB)"?

    ...and please reserve you sorrow. While your humanity is noted, it takes away from a factual presentation.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    "The LS, like it or not, is perceived to be a "value HELM."

    I'm not knocking the car-just stating a fact-since it competes against the MB S-Class.

    Remember-all S-Class buyers can afford an LS, but surely not all LS buyers can afford to step up to a MB S-Class."


    A. Slight correction. The LS is perceived as the "Best Value HELM". There's a difference.

    B. Also surely, very few LS buyers see going to the S-Class as a step up. ;)

    DrFill
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    "And more on the "value" quotent of the LS. Yes, it does win here. But a fully opted LS(average transaction of 70k) is where the big guns usually start, the A8, XJ, and 7. And with the average transaction of a S550 nowadays at 92-95k, it seems that the LS is the discount of the class. And with prices moving up only slightly, it's likely to stay that way. So in that saying, you really do get what you pay for..."

    Perhaps a review of the word "Value" is in order? You may not be familiar with this word, as it is rarely used in association with an Audi. :P

    DrFill
  • atlas7atlas7 Posts: 126
    Just because a car costs more, doesn't mean it's a better car. The Germans have much much higher Labor costs than the Japanese and therefore their cars cost a lot more to build. If I am not mistaken, the Germans have the highest car labor costs in the world. Lexus builds cars just as good for less, due to the difference in labor costs.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    "Like it or not, the A8 is here to stay. Low exports to the States or high, the car has a great following of people that own them."

    OK - I'll agree with you and I certainly hope the A8 stays around - but the sales in the US are still minimal and barely on the radar scope.
  • atlas7atlas7 Posts: 126
    I agree, The Audi's are nice cars, but they seem to be flying under the radar. I am in the market for a new Luxo Sedan. Considered Audi, the A8, but I just don't see that many of them. I live in the DC Metropolitan area, so it's not like there aren't a lot of Luxo Sedans on the road. Audi, nice styling, nice engines, handle, but don't like the interior at all....to each his own.
  • mickylmickyl Posts: 14
    Hi, Atlas7, I am also in DC area and in the market for a large sedan. I am curious as to what you are leaning toward paying? I have checked Maserati QP and have just decided to drop that off my consideration for now. I am thinking about MBS550.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I just caught the new Q7 commercial, a text book example of a boring, forgettable ad. A lousy song and a few panning shots of the Q7 driving down the road. I could've done better with a Handycam. I really hope that isn't the best the "new" Audi marketing department can come up with.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Well, I see the pomp-pomps rolled out after his [Merc1] downloads and rants on Lexus and Lexfans. I've also seen the adulation he gets for, shall we say, stomping on some of our posts... With the Eurofan cheerleading each other, you refer to Lexfans as "kool aid drinkers". All we do is give our opinions of our fav brands. None is any more important than the other. I'd hope we ALL (me included) tone down the volume of our rhetoric... It'll benefit all, IMO.

    Oac, when you compliment others has anyone ever criticized you for it? I would thank you not to criticize me for complimenting Merc. He doesn’t need anyone to instigate him. He says what he wants. Let’s not make it an issue please.

    On the subject of beefs here’s mine. It seems as if some in the Lexus camp would like to see German brands dead and buried, particularly Mercedes. I find this curious not to mention ire-provoking. I don’t recall hearing anything like this from fans of other makes even though they criticize competing brands. There are some hardcore car fans around the internet but I can’t say I have heard them revel in the prospect of another company’s misfortune.

    Anyway, you have been very friendly and generous to me with your compliments. If I have said anything to cause resentment I apologize. I am here to read and write, not offend, not get wrapped up in tedious arguments, and not pound anyone over the head with my opinions. And I like to think that many of us are friends in spite of being faceless words traversing the ether.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Honda is actively developing clean diesel engines for the US market, and VW is working on those funky super-turbo charged engines. Toyota on the other hand seems to be all in with hybrids, at least for now.

    I understand that Toyota is also on a leading edge with hydrogen and is also active with diesels. No matter what happens with hybrid, I would imagine they are prepared to adapt quite readily.

    I am sensing a resistance to hybrid. Battery size and storage is one thing, but the convoluted technology is another. I think the idea of having several power plants of different nature is a source of concern for many, regardless of how perfectly Toyota pulls it off. I hear people saying…. this is very complex and therefore subjects me to potential problems. Spending $24k on a Prius with conscience-laden concerns is a lot different from spending $55k on a performance sedan.

    I think IS and GS are miscalculated so I believe Lexus is not as adroit with their product design as they are with manufacturing. Camry could be a bust and the LS600h a success or vice versa. Psychology and perceptions can sometimes preclude the significance of a company’s financials in the stock market. A similar dynamic can affect hybrid. I am not saying this will happen but I think it is possible and not improbable.

    Early in the digital epoch there were high hopes for Apple and the ground-breaking Macintosh. We know what happened with Microsoft. These next several years will be interesting but to tell you the truth I would not be surprised at any direction hybrid takes, good, bad or indifferent.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    The reviews I have seen put the Q7 behind the X5 in the handling department.

    So what else is new?

    By the way, the Porsche Cayman S has twice the trunk space as the Lexus GS450h!
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    STOP THE PRESSES!! Thou LJ said agree and Audi in the same sentence. Just kidding, but I also agree with you that the A8 sales aren't impressive given that this is the largest car market on Earth. Sales not being factored in, the car is very impressive.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    Like TagMan and other Eurofans have opined about affordability of S-class vs an LS, where S-class buyers can afford an LS, while not all LS owners can afford an S. What's the point here ? That LS owners are poorer than S-class owners ? Like Len pointed out, average income group for LS owners is $250K 3 buying years ago.... So what does ownership of a $50-70K car vs ownership of a $75-90K S-class mean ? Like another $50K higher in annual income, if that ? I have argued that many who drive an S don't pay cold hard cash for these cars. I may not have the hard facts to prove this, but neither can anyone prove the opposite. If anyone has facts that majority of S owners paid CASH for their cars, pls bring it out.

    So if most owners of the LS and S drive these on lease purchases, do factors like interest rates, money factor, promotions, discounts, etc.... play a significant role in the drive-out price of that lease ? That's when you look at the 3-year timeline when many of these cars go off-lease. What are they truly worth, not the hyper inflated/bloated MSRP these cars are listed for ? And show us which S-class/LS430 is selling at MSRP, eh .....

    So let's see what a 3-yr-old LS430 UL, vs S430 retails for ?

    KBB retail price:
    '03 LS430UL (MSRP of $71K) = $52,825 (Excellent rating, 36K miles)
    '03 S430 (MSRP of $83K) = $53,475 (Excellent rating, 36K miles)

    So is the S-class more uppity than the LS or are some S-class owners simply throwing good money after bad ? You be the judge....
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    LG, I usually can respect most of your posts. But this one has topped them all.

    You say that the Q7 has a boring ad. Well picture this, an RX350 ad that shows the car driving at night then all of a sudden it crosses paths with a deer. The ad was to highlight the swivel headlights of the RX. Nothing special as every carmaker has them now. No word on the mechanicals of the RX. Not utility. Not seating configurations. Nothing. Haven't even seen ads for the ES and IS yet. But they're still running the 1 year old ads on the LS', maybe in an attempt to sell the leftovers, which is brilliant.

    BTW: The Q7 sales have been much higher than anticipated by Audi, so this one definetely won't be a sales dud. It sold more last month than the MDX, SRX, X5, and RX. Being a new model does help out with this for sure.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    I knew I was forgetting sumpin'!

    Everytime I see that commercial, I cringe. :(

    Audi CAN make good commercials, doh. Or at least they have before, with the 1996 (?) A4 ("Get ready for the ride of your life!").

    But they need to fire this ad agency, toot sweet! :confuse:

    DrFill
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    Everybody has 'em?

    Nobody needs to be sold on the RX350, as it has legendary a Deathgrip on the market!

    When it comes to the RX, we don't need to start with a bowl and spoon. At this point it's "Say when!" when I bust out the whipped cream and cherries. ;)

    DrFill
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    "I am sensing a resistance to hybrid. Battery size and storage is one thing, but the convoluted technology is another. I think the idea of having several power plants of different nature is a source of concern for many, regardless of how perfectly Toyota pulls it off

    I think IS and GS are miscalculated so I believe Lexus is not as adroit with their product design as they are with manufacturing. Camry could be a bust...."

    Maybe someone has hacked into Hp's computer and conjured up this :confuse: of a post.

    There is no response to ideas so off the wall, so here's hoping you'll see clear to have this imposter thrown off your estate IMMEDIATELY!

    Hp wouldn't say anything that off-base.

    Nooooooo! :surprise:

    DrFill
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