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High End Luxury Cars

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  • I have read and responded to this site since its inception and have found an abundance of useful information that has helped me with decisions on some very pricey automotive investments. However, the recent posting sound more like childish banter than people exchanging useful information. Please get back to the discussion of High End Luxury SEDANS and off of the Aurora, Corvette and SL600. They don't belong in this discussion.
  • hello25hello25 Posts: 30
    I didn't know there were two moderators of this topic. I promise not to talk about the Aurora or the Corvette or the SL600 or SLK or the A or the C or the E or the ML or the ES or the IS or the GS or the SC or the RX...
  • In response to the question in 151, I did the German delivery of a 540i in 1998. It is a very nice program, and saves a bit of money. Down side is you must pay cash 1 month prior to delivery, travel to Germany (I go anyway for business) and then wait 5-8 weeks for the car to reach the US. Upside is you have the car to tour Europe, a price better than any I found here and you pick precisely the options, color, etc. I highly recommend the program. BMW gives you temproty plates and insurance for one month which can be extended if you wish. They detail the car for you when it is shipped to the USA. There is no charge for the shipment. My wife absolutely loved it as she joined me for a week in Bavaria, Austria, Switzerland, etc.
  • mmcbride1mmcbride1 Posts: 861
    What a nut job! I give that post 2 hours before it is deleted. Maybe less...
  • mmcbride1mmcbride1 Posts: 861
    It was less.
  • Will be sold along side of the A8, like BMW sold the 740i and 740iL What other features will the A8L other than room?
  • Want to know what tops your "blessed" Mercedes S600 which you seem to think G-d created on the seventh day before he rested? Try a Bentley Continental T Mulliner. *Grins*

    If I had a few hundred thousand dollars to throw around, I'd prefer a more individually tailored and styled Bentley or Rolls-Royce over a bland, mass-produced and common-as-apples "Kraut Wagon" like a Mercedes-Benz. And yes, I'm well aware of the fact that Bayerische Motoren Werke and Volkswagen purchased RR & Bentley from Vickers. IMHO, Crewe still builds cars that will always be leaps and bounds above anything the three-pointed star can churn out in terms of sheer majesty, elegance, and sophistication.

    Moderator: Before you delete this post for the "Kraut" remark, take into account the fact that I'm of Austrian descent. Thanks. ;o)
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    A Bentley does top a Benz in image and "majesty" as you call it. However an S600 is at least 15 years ahead in technology over any 2-door Bentley made today, including their specialized Mulliner editions. Mulliner is to Bentley, like AMG is to Mercedes. I like Bentley's too, very much. However in technical sophistication they are decades behind. A 300K car that doesn't even have Xenon headlights, or side airbags! Of course after you drive a Bentley or even sit in one you wouldn't care, but technically they were outdated 15 years ago. If I had a couple hundred grand I would have a Bentley in addition to a few "Kraut Wagens" too. Don't look now but like you said, those "Kraut" companies own the lady, her dress, and that flying "B". Image they are tops, but "sophistication" is mastered by Mercedes-Benz and the like.


    M
  • Out of respect for the topic of this forum and for its contributors, this will be my last post here.

    I understand and respect the fact that we both have differing opinions, Merc. I don't expect to "convert" you, just as you will never "convert" me. *Smirks* I'm sure we each have rational reasons for thinking the way we do.

    I sincerely think that Rolls-Royce and Bentley top Mercedes-Benz by a substantial margin. The difference is in the craftsmanship, the quality of the materials, and the build quality. Rolls-Royces and Bentleys are quite literally designer items. You don't go to a dealership and just buy one like you do in the case of a Mercedes-Benz; you commission them.

    The "technological" argument is rather moot, IMHO. Arguing that Crewe cars are "decades behind" in technological sophistication is like arguing about the obsolescence of the front-engine, rear wheel drive layout or the internal combustion engine (two things which every Mercedes-Benz has). Just because something may be "outdated" in accordance with modern standards does not necessarily mean it's inferior. Quite the contrary, the "obsolete technology" in Crewe cars is time-proven and just as good if not better than the "superior technology" in a Mercedes-Benz.

    You also seem to forget that the recent investments by Bayerische Motoren Werke and Volkswagen have contributed greatly to the "modernization" of Rolls-Royce and Bentley motorcars. I'm sorry, Merc, but I'm afraid we'll have to differ on this. In my honest opinion, I think the Mercedes-Benz "superior technology" you speak of consists of nothing more than gimmicks and "toys" (like the chromed wands which extend from the rear of the car) to make an affluent buyer feel "special." They are trivial "extras" which experienced drivers will never need or have a use for in their lifetime. Rolls-Royces and Bentleys have individuality, and endear to their owners in ways German cars couldn't match on their best day.

    Also, making a car more "idiot proof" only increases the risks of expensive repairs when that "superior technology" fails, and in a way fosters irresponsible driving. Simply put, if we absolutely need technical innovations like Parktronic and that cruise control that slows the car down when you approach another car too quickly, we really shouldn't be on the road.

    So if I had $300,000 lying around, I'd go with a more individual Rolls-Royce Corniche convertible over a bland and ho-hum (in my opinion) SL600, or a Park Ward over an S600. To me, Mercedes-Benzes, BMWs, and Lexii are as common as apples and, as the Edmund's staff puts it, clutter the highways like salmon travelling upstream to spawn.

    Anyhow, I think I've said enough. Once again, this will be my last post, and let's not allow our differences in opinion make us mortal enemies. ;o)
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    You must have misunderstood my last post. I agree with you totally about Bentley/Rolls craftsmanship and status. They are the top status symbol in luxury cars, if not cars period. However like I said before, I can't see why a 300K should be "forgiven" for not having the same features as a Jetta or Corolla. Furthermore most people don't have 300K "lying around" anyway, nor do I. I do have about 40-45K to spend on my next car though, so a "ho-hum" Mercedes or BMW will have to do. I deal in reality, not what if's. That said, you're correct, a Bentley is a stunning car. There is not other car more lavishly built than a Rolls or Bentley.

    You also said that some of Mercedes' technical innovations are just "gimmicks". Hmmm, an electronic stability program for a rear-drive hi-performance car is indeed a revelation in bad conditions, something that I don't recall any Rolls and Bentley models having. Side airbags and Xenon lights gimmicks, yeah right. Xenon lights have changed many peoples perspective of night driving, because they are now comfortable doing so because of the level of vision these type of lights provide. Parktronic, something that Bentley does have, so if it's a so-called "gimmick" then Bentley is guilty too. Any big car owner will tell you that any parking assistance system is helpful, but not a must-have. That is the point of a luxury car...convenience. About VW and BMW sharing Rolls and Bentley. If those British brands were so good, they would not have needed a savior from.....Germany. Their cars would be 25 years behind without their help. My point is that while Bentley and Rolls are fabulous cars, they aren't the all around best. The best in my opinion are from Germany, ho hum and all.
    However, I were filthy rich I would have several Bentleys too. I like them both, but Mercedes is just my #1. Lastly, don't group Mercedes and BMW with even more pedestrian brands like Lexus.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    For 2000 Rolls and Bentley sedans do have an electronic stability program.

    M
  • hello25hello25 Posts: 30
    Rolls Royce built quality is limited to interior materials and craftsmanship.
    You would not have a romantic idea of Rolls Royce quality if:

    1. the transmission was made by GM
    2. the radio was made by GM Delco
    3. the car had oversteer like an American car from
    1965
    4. the windows went down and refused to go back up
    5. the dash lights went out and refused to come
    back on

    For 2000 Rolls and Bentley sedans have an electronic stability program? They're going to need it.
  • Moddy L8_Apex is going to kill me...

    Merc,

    I don't knock things like ESC or Xenon headlamps, but the reason I call them gimmicks is because most everyone does fine without them. My car has a cheap (compared to the systems on the cars we've been talking about) traction control system that uses the rear drum brakes and throttle to control wheel spin on a slippery surface. It may be crude compared to the systems found on Benzes, but it gets the job done nevertheless.

    Skid control? It's a great feature I suggested should be put on the next generation Fleetwood Brougham, but all I need to do is just drive slower in bad weather to accommodate for sharp turns and the like. With a little investment, I could easily have a Xenon HID headlamp system installed on my vehicle. Will I need it? Probably not... I don't usually drive during the night at high speeds thinking I'm Bob Bondurant.

    Like I said, not everybody needs (or wants) these perks. Granted, they are beneficial, but who really thinks about them?

    "Frank,"

    Assuming that post was directed towards me (and I apologize if that assumption is wrong), all I have to say is this:

    "the transmission was made by GM"

    Don't get me started on GM transmissions... I curse the 4L60-E in my Cadillac.

    "the radio was made by GM Delco"

    After reprogramming the equalizer settings (something most people don't know how or CARE to do), that AC Delco stereo makes this country bumpkin think he's in Carnegie Hall whenever he pops in a cassette of Claude Debussy or Johnny Mathis.

    "the car had oversteer like an American car from 1965"

    For your information, I happen to like that "pinky finger" steering. I'm so used to it by now that I have no complaints about it. It's strictly a matter of PREFERENCE, and there is no such thing as a "superior" amount of steering effort, whether it's highly assisted or taut.

    "the windows went down and refused to go back up"

    I never had that problem happen to me.

    "the dash lights went out and refused to come back on"

    Never had that happen to me.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    You're partially right, people do get by without these items, but the purpose of a Luxury car is to have the latest and the greatest. If I pay 85K for a car, I want the best technology on the market. If I pay 300K for a car surely it should have more "stuff" than a 85K car. To answer your question "who thinks about them". Well Mercedes, BMW, Audi and Lexus buyers. The latest tech features bring the checkbooks into the showroom by the droves.

    M
  • Naturally, if you're going to pay close to $100,000 for a car, you'd expect it to have little innovations that other cars don't.

    You have to realize something, Merc. You're talking to someone whose first car was his dad's 1990 Lincoln Town Car. I thought that a trip computer which told me the gas mileage and estimated distance to empty, high beams that automatically dimmed whenever a car passed in the opposite lane, automatic headlamps, an electrochromatic rearview mirror, dual air bags, a rear air suspension that kept the tail from dragging and the car from pitching and rolling all over the place, and ABS were all the technology one could ask for.

    The latest tech features aren't what bring me and my checkbook into a showroom. I buy cars for their ride, not their technology or handling "qualities" (though I certainly appreciate a little technological extra here and there).

    Okay, seriously... This will be my last post. I already get the feeling I angered some of the participants (not to mention the moderator) with these discussions.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    You said that you felt you angered the host and others here. Well, you didn't anger me. I have actually enjoyed debating this with you. If anyone really gets angry over this (very clean, compared to others) discussion they need to get a life. In closing I will say that all the cars we talked about here are great cars, in the end it just comes down to what one likes and the size of said checkbook.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    One last note, once you've driven a car with HID headlamps and felt a car assist you through a tricky turn, you'll always want these items.

    M
  • Where does Bugatti fit in comparison with the Crewe wheels?
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    If VW restores Bugatti to its former glory it will be the undisputed prestige king of modern times. With VW behind Bugatti, the brand will have the engineering to go along with the eye-popping prices they'll command. If the economy holds up, and VW's plans are realized, Bentley (after it separates from Rolls) and Bugatti will crush Rolls-Royce. The reason I say this is that I don't see what BMW can do with Rolls-Royce. Rollers are not sporty in the least, and BMW won't be able to master both, I don't think. Handling Rover was enough. If these W16 and W18 engined Bugattis are made you can forget Rolls as the status leader. Can anbody say Royale?

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    If VW restores Bugatti to its former glory it will be the undisputed prestige king of modern times. With VW behind Bugatti, the brand will have the engineering to go along with the eye-popping prices they'll command. If the economy holds up, and VW's plans are realized, Bentley (after it separates from Rolls) and Bugatti will crush Rolls-Royce. The reason I say this is that I don't see what BMW can do with Rolls-Royce. Rollers are not sporty in the least, and BMW won't be able to master both, I don't think. Handling Rover was enough. If these W16 and W18 engined Bugattis are made you can forget Rolls as the status leader. Can anybody say Royale?

    M
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