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High End Luxury Cars



  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Oh ok. It seemed logical at the time since Toyota and Porsche have had an ongoing relationship over the years. Maybe Porsche is working on some of Lexus' sportier variants of the GS or IS to be introduced down the road.

  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    In reading that letter about the 07' LS' pricing on the LS board, I'd have to say it is a hoax for a number of reasons, IMO. I can't see Lexus or anyone with Lexus using "whew" and "grand daddy" in an official correspondence. Secondly those prices are just too high for the car to be competitive in Lexus' typical manner, unless Lexus has decided that the 7-Series and A8 are no longer competition. I can't see a LS460L going for 94K, which is an LS600hL price if anything. The base price of a LS460L will be 86K, the same as a S550? No way is that going to happen. Lastly I think it is a little too early for such detailed pricing information to leak out if the car really goes on sale in Sept. Just my take on it.

  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    You have a point about the 86k number, it does seem far-fetched that Lexus would price at parity with the S550. But on the other hand, there will still be an LS460 SWB down at 67k, if we are to believe the letter; MB doesn't have an S in the US down there, and when a S450 comes, it would be more than 67k, I would guess. I think it is within the realm of possibility (maybe a 30% chance?) that the LS prices in the letter are accurate. We'll just have to see.

    As far as the casual wording ("whew" and "grand daddy"), remember that this is from a dealership in Georgia, not Lexus corporate. So I don't think the wording should count against the letter.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Yeah I believe the pricing for the LS640, but not the LS460L. That is the strange thing about the whole letter, half of it seems to make perfect sense and the other doesn't. I can see a fully loaded SWB LS460 going for 67K, that sounds about right considering the old LS430 topped out a 71-73K. That about the base price of a LS460L being 86K just doesn't make sense if and only if Lexus is looking to continue their value positioning against Mercedes. Wouldn't it be something if Steve's wish came true here.

    Anything in the 90K range has to be the LS600HL, IMO.

    We'll have to see how it all shakes out. I can't prove it, but I know Mercedes is waiting to see the LS460 pricing structure before releasing anything on the S450. When the S550 was first talked about every publication under the sun mentioned the S450 and S600 saying they would arrive in April of this year, but only the S600 showed up with the S450 never having been mentioned again.

  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    You can see by my posts that I agree with you. I think the post on the LS460 board about the double up of option pricing has some merit if the etter is real. I don't know if the letter is a hoax or is just an energetic salesman. Could be a hoax as a letter like that would usually come from the General Manager of the dealereship and not a person that fails to disclose his or her title.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    I think the post on the LS460 board about the double up of option pricing has some merit if the etter is real. I don't know if the letter is a hoax or is just an energetic salesman. Could be a hoax as a letter like that would usually come from the General Manager of the dealereship and not a person that fails to disclose his or her title.

    I agree... especially on the part that its not even signed by the GM of the dealership, nor is it directly from Lexus Corporate, so forgive me if I remain skeptical of this letter. A LWB which is NOT the flagship optioned to $94K ??? That seems way out of line for Lexus...
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Fellow forum members may have an opportunity to drive a Jaguar XK for free. The only minor hitch is that you've got be very good looking and popular. I will definitely be writing a letter to Jaguar with my photo enclosed. :shades:

    He dines at Manhattan's most-exclusive eateries and glides
    past security at nightclubs. He wears custom-made shirts and drives an $80,000 Jaguar XK

    Jaguar, a unit of Ford Motor Co., has given Mr. Bossi the sleek XK to use free, weaving it into his already fabulous lifestyle in hopes that by merely being seen in one, he will persuade friends, acquaintances and wannabes to buy a Jag.

    SOURCE: Wall Street Journal

    link title
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    I can't believe in the forseeable future that the LS will be priced with the S. A fully laden LS460L is said to top out at 80k, and the LS600hL to close near a 100 grand.

    On the S450, like Merc said, MB is sitting idle until Lexus releases the LS so they can confirm US pricing(even export). I see can see the S450 coming to the States faster than we thought, albeit extremely late in light of the old W220's speedy release of the S430. I also have noticed that the European S450 will see a 10-hp bump to 345hp and the 550 to go 403-hp '08, maybe the sole purpose is to keep the horsepower crown. That's still a huge disparity between the 450 and 550, and still way behind the 500+hp and 604hp AMG monsters.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I also have noticed that the European S450 will see a 10-hp bump to 345hp and the 550 to go 403-hp '08,

    Where did you see this? That would be nice. We should find out whether or not the new AMG versions of the S and CL are naturally aspirated or turbochared in Sept at the Paris Auto Show. I'm betting on a 570hp turbo version of the new 6.2L AMG V8.

  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Toyota is in the business of manufacturing luxury cars like the Lexus and in the business of odorless manure.


    Hopefully the product recalls in their manure business are not as bad as the recalls in their car business :confuse:

    An Avalanche of Toyota Recalls

    This is all in good jest. Or maybe bad jest? I guess it depends on how you view manure. :P
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    Rick Wagner and Carlos Ghosn have reached a tenative deal. The deal is said to be comprised of GM and Renault-Nissan sharing each companies expertise. (Or maybe a slickish way for GM to entice cost cutting guru Carlos Ghosn to save the manufacturer.)

    The deal also says that together the companies will introduce a high feature/quality HELM jointly. Some reports say the specific models include the highly awaited RWD Cadillac DTS replacement and the needed-like-yesterday Infiniti Q45 replacement, to be built in the US for the first time.

    With this news comes skepticism as Carlos was just quoted last week in Tokyo to not stray from Renault-Nissan as his "work is not complete yet". And I also thought that the DTS/Lucerne/Bonneville replacements were to be devoloped on GM's new RWD Zeta Wide-Body platform?? Maybe things have changed....

    Source: Associated Press
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    The European mag Autocar. They mentioned that MB is not about to give up the hp war just yet. The 403-hp 5.5L is due to a less restrictive exhaust and recalibration of the VVT while acheving Tier 2 ULEV U.S. emission standards(another one of MB's tricks). I always thought the 5.5 was a bit on the quite side...

    The S450 was mentioned to be coming to the States in '08 with a different exhaust system than the GL, M models, hence the 10-hp increase. With a base price around $78k(not far off of the '06 S430, altho I wonder how much decontenting has been done to arrive at this price point- a full 8k off of S550), it should not be a tough sell against it's competitors, much like the W-220 S430, the volume leader...
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Posts: 1,150
    I would have liked a lot more elaboration on the various areas of "expertise" they were going to share. Consider this: GM the master of how to lose market share, actually has more share than Renault in Europe. Mr. Ghosn, a world class executive (he plans his monthly trips from Japan to his home in Paris to arrive just in time for breakfast on Monday morning), can certainly wield a knife. Can he build a sustainable business? Looking at the problems with Nissan in the US, the jury is still out. GMs best bet may be to break it up into three pieces.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Sounds good. I've always said that the 5.5L V8 should have been a 400hp+ engine, more like 420hp. The 4.6L should have around 367hp. If the V6 is any indication I think the V8s will get direct injection around facelift time.

    I don't like the idea of a 78K S450, it should be more like 73K and 360hp.

  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Perhaps something like the GM\Toyota Matrix\Vibe joint project? I still don't see any real benefits of this to any of the parties involved, except of course in Captain Kirk's bank acct. So far the only thing Ghosn has proved he can do is scorched earth cost cutting. Post turn-around, the jury is very much still out. That brilliant move to TN basically killed NNA.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Yeah I agree. I don't see why Nissan/Renault would even want to be bothered with a mess as large as GM. Just as signs appear that Nissan's comeback may be fading they're going to tie themselves up with GM? Doesn't make sense. Ghosn must be after something within GM that no one else in the industry can see. What I really find interesting is that the last time GM formed one of these these "alliances" it cost them about 3 billion dollars. Fiat really made a fool out of the Gerneral and I can't help but think Nissan/Renault would do the same because there is no way they're going to allow their highly-profitable organization to be ruined by GM's self-inflicted problems.

  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    So, far I have driven the 745i and 750i and I have come to the conclusion that the Audi is more of a driver's ultra-luxury car than the BMW. Where the 7-Series feels bloated and extra-large, the A8 is lithe and eager to please. If you are in the market for one of these cars and prefer to drive instead of being driven, the A8 is the one for you

    Auto123 Review Link:

    link title

    The BMW 7 series which has been the "Benchmark Driver's Ultra-Luxury Car" for quite a while appears to be having some very interesting competition from the Audi A8. The above is just one reviewer's opinion but there are many others with such an opinion.

    Also BMW should start looking at its rearview mirror because soon there will be a Porsche Panamera. IMO it looks like the future benchmark ultra luxury driver's car will be the Panamera and not the 7 series. Unless ofcourse BMW focuses on only 3 things for the next generation 7 series: Performance, performance and let us not forget blistering performance.

    Instead it appears BMW is trying to produce an "Ultimate Rider's Machine" with this very silly technology linked below:

    link title

    In all honesty how many "real drivers" needs assistance in parking :confuse:
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    More riveting details about the new MB CL AMG.

    link title


    This car is slightly above my budget. And even if this AMG is within my budget I would frugally save my money instead and buy a humble BMW M5 and give the outstanding balance to the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    At a time when Nissan/Renault still has one leg on the chopping block as they're still not out of the dark due to the ever revolving quality issues on both ends(ie: Titan/Armada/QX, Z/G35, and Maxima just a name a few on the Nissan side and a host of Renaults that make rival Peugeout look like mere reliable Lexuses), why in the world would they write themselves a bum check in the red ink that GM is using?? Use the same pen that GM used to get Fiat off of there back, with Fiat laughing all the way to the bank.

    Sure, GM has some exciting products in the pipeline(the highly anticipated new rendition of the Camaro, new Pontiac GTO/Firebird, and the switch to RWD for all it's mid/full size cars), but I have some skepticism on what this deal is to prove? And what with Nissan invigorating the entire line with the replacement auto-trannies to CVT in everything from a Sentra to a G35, maybe that is what GM is after. And Nissan is said to have a Camry-beating 48mpg Altima Hybrid for '08. That would be nice to have in a, say, G6 or Malibu.

    Or maybe it's Nissan after GM's large pockets and truck expertise, and to a lesser extent, a version of the Vette? Nissan Silverado-esque? For sure they're not tapping to see if they can get some Delphi hook-ups.......... :P
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    Obviously GM can't use it!

    And maybe put some workers back on the line. That would be good!

    But I don't exactly see Americans tearing down the walls looking for Nissans.

    Since Ghosn has taken over, Nissan has fielded their best designs ever, including Altima, FX, G35, and Titan.
    I am impressed, and I don't impress easy!

    But they need to get Maxima, Sentra, and a Infiniti Flagship on track if they are to make any new waves over here. Their comeback is on the fishizzle! :P

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