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High End Luxury Cars



  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    Lexus has hedged it's bet long enough.

    I have stood next to both cars, at the same time.

    I see no reason to "Check" at this table. I'd raise, on more than just power, features, size, and looks.

    119+ yrs of brand v 17 yrs of brand... that's why ! Slow and steady wins the race.. The LS price will creep up, and with the different models, you'll finally see an LS sedan priced in the mid-80K and up. That is a far-cry from the past 17 years of $72K top ceiling for the UL.

    You cannot fault Toyota/Lexus strategy. It is the stuff of legends, so gotta wait and watch as the strategy unfolds... Its scary if you stop to think of it.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    "And the point Len is making is that 600hL buyers don't give a hoot what the Prius is/does/does not..."

    Exactly. As well, the 600HL car will be heavily leased so the risk will be on Lexus anyway which is still another reason why any Lexus buyer of the car, on top of the obvious reasons, will not give a hoot. Then on the next go round he'll take the updated battery and get 500HP with 35-40mpg at the same price as the original purchase. If you use the argument noted here than there'd be no such thing as an early adopter of technology. What the early adopter here will look at is a high HP car that is green and is loaded with phenomenal luxury and techmology vs it's real competition - a gas car that gets a gas guzzler tax and costs more - a lot more in some cases - and retains less value on resale.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    "Isn't there a LS430 owner on here that has a Prius also? Could have sworn there was."

    Certainly isn't me, Merc... I am not a hybrid fan yet.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Certainly isn't me, Merc... I am not a hybrid fan yet.

    Same here. Although I have to say I found the Edmunds Camry Hybrid review interesting. Unlike the utterly pointless HAH, it actually works.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    Personally, I am ambivalent about the hybrid tech itself. I'd like higher MPG, but at what cost ? Maybe when HSD becomes mainstream as fossil-fuel based cars, then I'd go for one. My wife seriously considered a Prius during the first waves of higher gas prices, but now we simply have gotten used to paying more for gas...
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Isn't there a LS430 owner on here that has a Prius also?

    I think that was michael_mattox. Haven't seen him here for a while.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    I too am not completely sold on hybrids, but I do applaud the engineering advances that it has taken in the last decade. I am one with the diesel crowd as this has been tried and true for over 100 years(thanks Rudy). And with the forthcoming diesel-hybrid coming in the not to distant future, the gas-electric cars will have to have some other reasoning for existance. Long gone is the argument that gas cars are more refined than diesels. This has been abolished with the onslaught of new-gen diesels(both consumer and commercial).

    Take for instance MB's Bluetec. The engine is 4 db quieter than the outgoing 5.0L V-8, and at last check, that engine was resolute at 55 db at idle, 61 at a 70 mph cruise. Diesel is here to stay if it's going this rate. I can't wait for BMW's answer with the diesel-hybrid and Audi's V-12 diesel for the forthcoming A8.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    VW and Chrysler-Jeep haven't exactly set the world on fire with their diesels. Not exactly feeling the buzz on the E-Class diesel, either. :sick:

    I don't think Toyota is shaking in their boots over a diesel hitting the US market.

    Toyota seems to be the only one who can make hybrid/diesel palatable to Americans. And I'm not one to bet against them.

  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    And I wonder why that is, drfill... Is it the price of diesel isn't attractive right now and people don't understand the mileage dynamic, or are they lousy performers when you drive 'em? Why don't diesels sell here?
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    I can't believe it. I have to somewhat agree with the good doc.

    Yes, if the hybrid king was to offer a diesel hybrid, then they'd prbably sell as quickly as they can make them. But:

    Diesel is what the Europeans do best. The E320 CDI has not nor was it intended to be a sales king. Notice MB does not do a whole lot of advertising for it. And that is sure to change once the Bluetec comes on full line.

    The same for the Jeep vehicles. What other trucks in it's price range/size class offers a diesel of any price? None. The next closest thing would be the VW Touareg, at 50k. And this is why DCX is sure to cash in on the high-gas-pubic with a diesel that is just as refined(if not better) as a gas engine yet returns over 30 mpg, in an SUV? And these are verified facts, unlike the Prius' and Civic' "normal average" debacle....
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    I'm right!

    Leave it to you to hedge a bet on the right answer. :P

    Diesels just have a bad rep, from decades ago, for being slow, noisy, smelly, expensive to maintain, and having poor drivability.

    You never get a second chance to make a first impression.

  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    "You never get a second chance to make a first impression."

    That is true, however:

    You do get a chance to be reintroduced and reinvigorated, hence the recent surge of diesel sales in pick-up trucks to customers who actually don't need diesel power. And this is why DCX is the commercial leader: DIESEL POWER!
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    Since I'm not rollin' into a Chrysler dealer to buy a Commercial diesel. Retail consumers couldn't care less about commercial diesel sales.

  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,257
    that no one here has commented on the big news that was revealed on the 2007 LS board the past couple days. Someone found out the starting price for the LS460. It will be at about $60,500. The information seems very legitimate. If this is the case (there is no reason to doubt it), then it gives us huge clues on the pricing structure of the LS460 LWB and also for the LS600h. Based on this, I cannot imagine that the cost of the LS600h will be much more than the low 90's K.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    and voiced my displeasure at the LS board earlier.

    $60,596? Pretty strange price for a world-beater! :mad:

    BTW, Lexus has confirmed, via e-mail, the 2007 GS350 will sport 303HP.

  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    The usuals around here are still shell-shocked about the news... Give them a few more months to digest this info. Besides, its not like the Germancarfans do not have enough Lexophiles to worry about :)
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    And the point Len is making is that 600hL buyers don't give a hoot what the Prius is/does/does not... The Prius was novel 4 years ago, now its mainstream... the 600hL is something else... And I buy that argument as well. Heck, why should a '08 600hL owner worry that an '09 Prius gets 100mpg ? Is the 600hL all about MPG ? Geez ! About the only thing remotely similar b/w a Prius and a 600hL is that they both have an electric motor, and there the comparison ends... Oh, both have 4 doors, 4 wheels and a body-on-frame design...

    Only to one who one minute will try to seperate Lexus from Toyota, but yet in the next sentence tell you how might Lexus is because of Toyota. You obviously don't seem to understand what a greenie buyer is. The type of person that gets excited about hybrids is likely to take notice, that is all anyone is saying here.

    In the beginning of all the hybrid ranting the Prius was such the car that celebs were buying it and now that will shift to the LS600HL, but none of this same group will notice it if the (and a very big if) the next gen Prius makes the tech in the LS600h look outdated? You guys seem to trip over (or can't remember) what was said from one minute to the next, it is hilarious.

    One minute Lexus has the almighty power of Toyota behind it and Toyota's image on Hybrids and yet now we're to believe that the LS600hl buyer is completely of another realm and wouldn't know or much less care about the Toyota hybrid that started it all, yet all these celebs bought Prius and the LS600hL (according to some Lexus fans) is a "celeb" car also. Makes sense.

    Get a new argument and stop beating a non-starter.

    I've been suggesting you do hat for years when it comes to same old nonsense about Lexus and complete and utter lack of understanding about anything beyond Lexus. Heck the same thing could be said about Lexus too regarding that 8-speed CVT that doesn't exist.

  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    And once again we have to remind you Merc1, that PRICE is but one factor ! Need we list you the features this new LS series will come with ? Not really cos you know them so well too... But more importantly, the LOWER price of the LS is bcos of efficiency of production, the HIGHER price of the S is bcos of the inefficiency of its production system. Give or take... if MB could make their S with the TPS efficiency, they'd price it right as well. Bottom line is the S is overpriced for what you get, unless you are simply buying the 3-pointed star on the hood.

    So this does prove that you do understand the concept of "price" but only when it comes to certain topics. Again talk about a non-starter, all this about why the S is priced higher is NOT IN DISPUTE. How many times does one have to say that for it sink in? Everyone knows that Toyota has a lock on lower cost production and that they're able to price Lexus vehicles lower because of it.

    Bottom line is that you think the S-Class is only bought for the star that the star is all you're getting over a Lexus you obviously don't know anyting about the car.

    And if you can get all of what the LS series delivers at rock bottom prices, why won't it continue its class-leading sales domination over its peers ?

    If you read your own statement you'll see part of the answer: "rock bottom prices". That has something to do with it you think?

  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    The usuals around here are still shell-shocked about the news... Give them a few more months to digest this info.

    What in the world is there to be shell-shocked about? We all knew the LS460 would cheap out in price next to the European competition, it is Lexus' MO.

  • brightness04brightness04 Posts: 3,151
    Nobody confuses MB CDI with a ride on the city bus even if both use diesel . . . Few will confuse hybrid for fuel saving vs. hybrid tuned towards performance. We already have a common engine technology that can be tuned towards either: Variable Valve timing. Honda first ues it for fuel saving, and for years the Civic HX had variable valve timing just for that. Once it was popularized for performance, somehow nobody associated VVT, VVT-i and Valvtronic with fuel-sipping specialized Civics ;-)
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