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High End Luxury Cars



  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Plus, building some badass automobiles that easily top BMW and the rest in many ways...not to mention one ultra successful and heritage laden motorsport program causing some serious concern down the autobahn in Munich. Who is the true "sport luxury" brand now? Actually, if you look at various vehicle comparisions from the many auto rags over the last couple of years, Audi has easily won the majority against BMW in the various classes of direct comparisions. This is what BMW centers its existence on, isn't it?

    You've got a good point there. Audi isn't much of a threat (yet, perhaps) to BMW in the U.S., but they definitely are a top rival in the world stage. Quattro Gmbh is also a more direct competitor to Motorsport than AMG is. Most AMGs are rocket fast, but not usually "sports cars" in the way Audi RS cars are. Watching the CL65 try to get around the Top Gear track was pretty humorous. As they put it "in the corners it turns into just a regular Mercedes".

    The RS4 managed a 1:25 lap time, a second faster than the Z4M and M5. More importantly, Clarkson, who usually hates Audis, said it was better than the M3.
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    I was under the impression that Audi already outsells BMW on a worldwide basis. Does anyone know if that's accurate?
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    Yes syswei, Audi outsells BMW. Primarily on the heels of the A6, the world's best selling premium car, followed be the A4(and it's 11 variants, 6 of which we can't get).

    Audi is one of those compannies that you have to watch. Even with the many posters who shall remain nameless say that Audi isn't a true or "tierless" HELM, the maker is on a big path to spread it's talent. Starting with the RS4, the RS 6 which will be here next spring(with the Gallardo's 510hp/500lb ft V10 and dry-sump), and the R8/10/12. The company is very serious about head-butting MB in the sport class.

    Then you have the '09 A7, which will feature a CLS-esque design cue and S7 variant, and of course the big kahuna, the new '09 A8. This car's base form will be a 4.2L 450-hp V8, followed by the S8 600hp V12(this go around), and a 400hp/710lb-ft of torque uber-clean V12 TDI w/ Micro Trap.

    I have nothing but astounding confidence in this maker. The company has demonstrated the talent and know-how in manufacturing world-class cars. But......

    BMW won't sit idley. The new 7 is coming, along with a first ever M7. The 3-Series is getting a bump in hp over the 300 mark for '07, and the refreshed 5 is due in '08. The successor to the Z8 is also on the books....

    Maybe this is why the Germans posted the strongest gains in history this quarter, especially with the blazen new product over at MB.....
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    OAC, my fellow car nut, you've hit an all time low. First you gather info on a unreliable German mag from 3 years ago, then secondly you posted something from a mag that is now defunct??? Not the best thing to do if what you're doing is to prove me wrong..... The old tumble cycle on the dryer is wearing out, don't ya think?

    I've got one. Again, how is that a "tierless" Audi A8 outsells the LS in it's homeland Asia(Japan, Thai, and China) 3-1? In many questionaires throughout the continent, consumers see the car as nothing more than a overly large Toyota.... So much for cheap labor and switching to the "L" grille for the first time in 2004... Didn't work.
  • brightness04brightness04 Posts: 3,151
    There was once upon a time Mercedes stood for bullet-proof reliability, just like once upon a time Lexus was a value story, when it was competing with Lincoln and Candillac. . . . comes to think of it, almost every single real luxury brand had its roots in outstanding reliability compared to its contemporaries, including RollsRoyce and Bentley, both had roots in endurace races. BMW and Porsche are primarily performance brands, not luxury brands.

    Brand image and reality change over time, however. Nowadays, Mercedes is the cheap source of luxury-branded cars thanks to heavily subsidized leases. It certainly beats the alternative: extinction by trying to sell overpriced lemons :-)
  • brightness04brightness04 Posts: 3,151
    Don't you think brand new and immature dealer network has something to do with that? Audi has been in those markets for decades, whereas Lexus is brand new to Japanese home market. Audi is also made in places like China whereas Lexus is not so perhaps their government bureacrats (the majority of buyers of those cars in those countries) have to operate under those rules about domestic manufacture?
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    I thought everyone knew the LS is nothing but a re-badged Toyota.
    Ya gotta hand it to 'em though-brilliant marketing scoring a bullseye at the American psyche, calling it a "Lexus".
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,862
    Overly large Toyota? As opposed to a gussied up Volkswagen? Hmmm, I'll take the large Toyota thank you!!!

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    Actually I am considering a Q7 for Dec purchase, to replace our LX. Unfortunately the early owners haven't had a good experience according to reports on the Q7 board (one quy says his service manager said that 30% of Q7s have been back in the shop already, and not for regular maintenance). Other possibilities are the 07 MDX or (if that looks to also have problems), a GX.
  • brightness04brightness04 Posts: 3,151
    I don't doubt that and have no figures to prove otherwise, but still...leasing doesn't apply to every single buyer and for those whom it doesn't is where price makes at least some type of difference.

    The willful blindness to lease offers really undermines the europhiles' intellectual honesty. Lease or buy, whichever is the lease expensive way of acquiring those buggers is what really matters, especially since the overwhelming majority of Mercedes are leased nowadays. MSRP on a Mercedes is no more relevant to the cost of getting one than MSRP on a Cadillacs or MSRP on jewllry . . . sure, some suckers may actually pay that or for very special specimens at very special times . . . but for the overwhelming majority, it's completely and utterly irrelevent.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    I will be looking at the 2007 MDX also.
    Spy-photos appear to reveal a much more stylish truck-probably at a significantly higher price.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Your post is full of baloney. Here's why . . .

    once upon a time Lexus was a value story, when it was competing with Lincoln and Candillac

    WAS a value story? How 'bout IS a value story?

    comes to think of it, almost every single real luxury brand had its roots in outstanding reliability compared to its contemporaries,

    So untrue. Consider that the British luxury cars were not so reliable as you claim. It isn't until recent history that Jaguar, for example, has ever been considered a truly reliable car.

    Nowadays, Mercedes is the cheap source of luxury-branded cars thanks to heavily subsidized leases. It certainly beats the alternative: extinction by trying to sell overpriced lemons

    All just a pathetic portrayal of Mercedes Benz and what it represents, historically, present day, and as it moves into the future.

  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,862
    I would hang onto that LX. After driving it you will be disappointed in the others.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • brightness04brightness04 Posts: 3,151
    APEAL != Appeal

    APEAL stands for "Automotive Performance, Execution and Layout." It's entirely different from "Initial Quality."

    IQ is a statistic study of manufacturing quality, whereas APEAL consists of many subjective fields, most of which have to do with design not manufacturing quality.
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    I would hang onto that LX.

    It is a 2000, doesn't have a nav or backup camera, and it guzzles. So the thought is that we want to improve on all those things (if only slightly, as regards mpg). And the LX replacement, allegedly coming in the spring, is going to be too big for us.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Did you need those Lexus flip-flop seats in the back? In other words, do you need a third row? Makes a huge difference in choices.

    If you do, the MDX may be the right choice, and a new version is about to be released. Acura is known for one of the very best nav systems at any price, has a backup camera, bluetooth, fold-flat third row, and all of the latest. Its size hits a sweet spot as well. Something to consider if you need that third row.

  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,662

    You nay want to see what happens with the GX as I'm told it may move up a notch in size to the LX size and go hybrid as well. I'm still wondering if they will ever make the HPX. The LS hybrid and HPX would be my first two choices for my needs and would look great inside the garage.
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    Yes we need a third row, preferably not of the Lexus design, which my wife hates. If the MDX doesn't appear to have significant first-year issues, it is probably going to be our choice.
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    I don't think the GX will see significant changes for MY07...and I kind of told the family that my wife would get a new vehicle for this xmas. I still need to look into the availability of KDSS on the GX, as I hear body roll is a big problem with the standard suspension. My wife's friend actually traded in a few-month-old GX in favor of an RX because the GX's body roll made her feel unsafe.
  • Audi has come a long way, and it is because of quality.
    Nothing like an Audi, but I like Jags the best.
    How would you compare an Audi to a Jag?
    George Vreeland Hill
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