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High End Luxury Cars

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  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,779
    That's right hp. If you could not afford the GS, then the LS is really out of your reach. Doesn't hurt to go looking though, and dreaming!!

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460

  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Tagman,

    I appreciate you pointed out the above and let me assure that is not at all what I am saying. After consulting with my team of lawyers I have edited my prior clause to be read as the following:

    Protection Clause from future Lexican or neutral GermanCarFan Attacks: With that Google example I am not implying that everything Lexus touches will be a flop other than the LS. ;)
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    The communication police are going to pay you a visit every time you fail to properly disclaim your posts. ;)

    You are funny. So sorry if I didn't understand.

    :D

    TagMan
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    The only way I would be interested in the LS is if it would be offered in a true SE package like Toyota does with the Camry.

    Since leasing is no bargain, I would pay cash for it (yes-I would try and scrape up a few spare schekels, somehow) if I liked it, which is highly doubtful. But I doubt if Lexus would offer an SE for the LS anyhow.

    By the way, that stuff you are currently drinking:
    Obviously, it is very effective in making you appear quite foolish.
  • dhamiltondhamilton Posts: 873
    infiniti serviced i get a chance to check out lot's of cars on the used lot [used last-gen M5, whewweeeee!!] and as well give a fairly close look at the other cars in the Infiniti line.
    [The Infiniti service has been A plus by the way.]
    I think, [In my opinion, and any other disclaimer I can think of to not offend anyone] that Infiniti has a way to go to equal the build quality of the Germans, and even Lexus. The interiors don't wear to well over time, and the doors don't quite have that satisfying chunk when closing like every Audi I've ever been in. Just my 2 cents.
    FWIW, Len I hope you come back, I know I can be a pretty sarcastic sob. If I had anything to do with your departure I apologize. I think this forum is so fun because everyone is so passionate. The sparks flying are the chemistry that keep me coming back.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,779
    Let's stop sniping at each other and talk about something interesting. What is the worst helm or even semi-helm that you have owned? I will go first:

    I don't even remember the year exactly but it was around 87 or 88 when I became the proud owner of a brand new Sterling automobile. The a/c quit on the way home from the dealer and things went downhill from there. Acutally is could have been a fine auto except for all the electrical glitches, etc. I still think the car was gorgeous (for its time) and it had a great engine and good responsive steering. It was just that nothing of an electrical nature would ever work. It was truly a maddening vehicle to own

    To show you how desperate I became, I traded it in on a 1990 Mercedes 190!!

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460

  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,779
    Ahhh!! I see you are weakening. I knew you would come around sooner or later. The clincher will be when you slip into the cozy confines of the new LS 460 and take her for a spin.

    I also see that you are becoming obsessed with my drinking habits! After a few sips of good single malt scotch, my IQ goes up about 20 points!!

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460

  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    IF the new LS is offered in SE form like the Camry is, I would be happy to test-drive it, but I don't believe Lexus will do it.
    Sort of conflicts with their image of the vehicle, I guess.

    They used to offer a "Euro-Tuned Suspension", but I have never heard of anybody actually driving one in this form.
    As far as I know, it has only been available in the back of some brochure.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Aluminum chassis combined with carbon fibre for its body will make the BMW Z29 very light. The doors will be so light that they will be held by one hinge each. It will weigh about 2600 lbs and with the current M3 engine it can go to 62mph in 4.4 seconds. But that in itself is not that exciting.

    What is most exciting is that the Z29 lightweight engineering will later be found in production BMWs. This is the kind of engineering I love and look forward to owning a weight-watcher's version of either the M3 Touring or a twin turbo BMW 5 Series wagon. In fact a feather-light fuel efficient 535 turbodiesel doesnt sound too bad either.

    image
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Complain about the hunps and bumps of the S all you may, currently, it is the best HELM on the market today.

    Most reviewers agree with that, and I know that I certainly do. Doc, excluded, of course. ;)

    S is THE benchmark at this point in time.

    TagMan
  • guestguest Posts: 774
    I readily admit that the S is the Benchmark.

    But, as you seem to understand yourself, a major qualiifier needs to be added.

    I sincerely question the duration of that statement.

    Hemi

    So now if the LS sells 30k in 2000, unless it sells close to 60k in 2001, it's not a good a redesign? I'm not following you.

    Since Lexus is quite proud of the Next LS, and is showing it off to all concerned, a quantum leap in sales, and a sag in current LS sales, may yield the increase of which you speak.

    You can set the bar as high as you want. You know the LS will clear it with ease! ;)

    DrFill
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    DrFill,

    first and foremost let us make sure we are talking about the correct benchmarks.

    Tagman and Hemi are talking about the benchmark the S Class sets in terms of of the car itself when compared to other models.

    While the benchmark you are talking about is based on sales $$$. Sales benchmarks say little about a car as movie box office sales say little about a film.

    An independent thinker will not be swayed into liking a movie or a car just because of how much $$$ they raise.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Posts that are focused on other members are not appropriate and are being deleted.

    Please stick to the cars and not your opinions of other posters.

    Thank you.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    It was my understanding that Lexus sold 49,000 LS' in 2000, not the 30k you quote.

    And yes the bar has been set quite high nowadays by the ubiquitous S-Class. But with better suspenders and a decent set of all-seasons, it should at the most meet the bar.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    I have thought that way about Infiniti's since the new gen cars start appearing starting with current Q45. This car is missing the polish cream the '97-'01 models had. Those cars were very sound and tight.

    The same for most of the other cars in it's class. THe QX56 is by far and away the most "detached" SUV in it's class. At 50k, there is no reason for the shortcomings of this ride. Hopefully the new G's are improved over the predecessors. But I must admit, Infiniti must've sent the M to finishing school as this is the best car in terms of fit/finish in the line-up. I think it is their best offering hands down....

    But one thing I can say about the Infiniti's: Boy are they reliable.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    Alright Houdini, I say this with a grain of salt. My worst HELM was my '87 Audi 5000 S. This car was during the dark days of Germany, and this one beared the grunt of the gloom.

    Two days after having the car, the ECM goes out. Got it fixed, a month later, the power steering goes. Then the "sudden acceleration", and so forth....

    What a difference 20 years make. My A8L W12 has been a model of absolute quality and reliability. Not so much as a hiccup in this car with 14k miles on it. German engineering had dark days indeed, but thankfully, looking at the renaissance of MB, BMW, Porsche, and Audi, those days are over.....
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    Ah-h '87. BMW gave us the first M6 and Porsche had the 3.2 911 and 930 with magnanimous whale's tail. You had to workout on a leg machine to drive those Porsches. Even today I'll take a 930 cab.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    My post referred to the "Benchmark" vehicle, not sales "Benchmark". Nor did I imply sales as a criterion.

    If you are going to interpret for me, try to do it accurately.

    Tag

    I was not quoting sales numbers for the post. It was an example to illustrate my point.

    My posts aren't this hard to understand. They can't be! :mad:

    DrFill
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    The 3 coupe is nice, but it's going to be facing brutal competition in the states from the G35 coupe, which like last time, is going to be faster, sleeker, and sportier than the sedan.

    I don’t know about brutal competition but you know I like the G coupe concept—a handsome piece of work—one of the best lookers IMO. I sure hope it comes unbotched.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    …what do you think would happen to BMW design if it continued introducing cars with no major design changes? IMO BMW would share the same fate as Jaguar in which customers would become quite vocal in their complaints about too subtle sytle changes.

    I always point to Porsche when anyone asks that type of question. The 911 basically looks the same as it did 40 years ago. I’d like the same for Jaguar but they are a different problem. I think Ford will be the death of Jag, AM and Volvo unless they sell them off to worthy concerns. Also, Jag was always plagued by reliability issues so in the hands of Ford the market perception just gets worse.

    I don’t think BMW needed radical styling change. The only thing the new styles did was trumpet “new model”. They could have done the same thing with an evolutionary approach just as Porsche does. Porsche actually went backward with the exterior styling of the 997 in response to complaints about 996, even though they did step up the interior in terms of material quality.
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