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High End Luxury Cars



  • I read it. Personally, I concur with you on this ugliness related to the G500 also. I rather have an H2 anyday of the week. Now that is a beautiful rugged SUV that H2 is.

    J "CaddyLac"
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    "Except in reality, their products are the ultimate in price, and no better than their competitors in anything else."

    Really? Then I guess they've not only fooled me but the entire automotive industry. Why would anyone benchmark Mercedes if there wasn't any substance to any of their engineering accomplishments? You're not making any sense. Where have you been the last 100+ years?

    "Lexus is smart. They let people like Mercedes work the bugs out of new technology, and
    then implement it when they can deliver it free of flaws and reliability problems."

    Exactly, thats why they'll forever be a follower. Lexus can't do squat with their flagship sedan until they find out what Mercedes is doing next. They're so smart they copied the previous S-Class' design. Brilliant. Question: What technology did Mercedes introduce that Lexus later perfected? Just dying to hear the answer to that one.




    "They are not close to anything else I mentioned."

    Oh really. Thats just it you're always saying that a Mercedes just doesn't compare with anything and it's a complete slaughter. That is bs pure and simple.

    "And like I said before, Mercedes should, but they dont."

    No they shouldn't. You can't please everyone, period. Nor should they try. Some of those things you listed aren't even worth chasing down. Mercedes was never a handlin' sort of car like a BMW so again, why would they now change this? Again, for a few who'll never buy a Benz. I know you understand this.

    On a different note, the G500 is a ex-military vehicle, it definitely won't appeal to everyone.
    I guess the Hummer H1 is also graceful and "pretty" too right. I wouldn't expect any Lexus folk to even come close to understanding the appeal of it. Blandness is the name of the game there.

  • "What technology did Mercedes introduce that Lexus later perfected?"

    The automobile!

  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Exactly as I thought, not a thang.

  • pluskinpluskin Posts: 79
    "You're not making any sense. Where have you been the last 100+ years?"
    For most of the last 100+ years, I wasn't yet born. If you're that old, perhaps you shouldn't be driving.

    Really I could care less what they've achieved in the past. All I know is that their cars on sale now don't seem to be significantly better or worse than others in their class. In most attributes, they are not best-in-class.

    "Why would anyone benchmark Mercedes if there wasn't any substance to any of their engineering"

    Did I say their wasn't any substance to any of their engineering? Why do you twist and exaggerate everything anybody says to you? Anyway, Mercedes are very successful, of course they are going to be benchmarked.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    "All I know is that their cars on sale now don't seem to be significantly better or worse than
    others in their class."

    Then what you're point in the first place?

    "Did I say their wasn't any substance to any of their engineering?"

    No you didn't, you were guilty by association.

  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Come ON people -- some of you have heard until *I* am sick to death of saying it that we are here to discuss the vehicles WITHOUT attacking each other.

    We all have our different needs, wishes, wants and priorities. To attack someone personally for holding different opinions on any or all of those values is childish, foolish and outside your Membership Agreement.

    This has been a very interesting, polite, stimulating and appropriately enthusiastic discussion for quite some time. Some one or maybe two of you have dropped in here with the seeming intent to upset all of that and turn this into a flame war.

    That is not going to happen.

    Give it a rest. We are going to talk about the vehicles and not each other.

    Sedans Host
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    Did you happen to see the 03 Lund Cadillac CTS on page 126 of November Motor Trend. Looks great. You can also go to

    I must say I also like very much the looks of the SRX. I'll definitely give it a look when my LX470 lease ends.

    I was so-so on the CTS when I first saw it but it has really grown on me. But then again I'm a person who likes bland cars since I fall into the Lexus genre - so what do I know..

    By the way a friend of mine just bought the H2 - in yellow - and I'll have a chance to ride in it on Saturday.
  • nealm1nealm1 Posts: 154
    1. I have given closer scrutiny to the new 7s I see on the street and am struck by (a) how beautiful the car is from some vantage points and (b) how ugly it is from others. Just what are the chrome strips running around the doors and windows supposed to do for the car's looks? BMW was so close to hitting a home run re: the car's appearance, but ended up with a mess. What a shame.

    2. Did you see the article in the NYT Sunday re: the "new" big Jag? Apparently they took exactly the opposite tack as BMW. Rather than taking the risk of revolutionizing the car's appearance, Jag left the design alone; the "new" car is IDENTICAL in appearance to the existing model. Now, I LOVE the looks of that car; it is one of the most elegant designs I have ever seen. But when you do what is supposed to be a complete redesign on your flagship and leave the exterior design untouched, aren't you admitting that you are running on aesthetic fumes? Time will tell, but I think Ford could REALLY end up regretting its timidity.
  • I seen it. Gorgeous automobile and those dubbs (rims) are super tight.

    So, have you driven the H2 yet? What do you think?

    J "CaddyLac"
  • baron87baron87 Posts: 93
    Yeah, you definitely see a lot of those and the new 7 around Chicago. The 7s looks have grown on me, but I still don't like it as much as the drop-dead gorgeous XJ. I'd take an XJ, especially the new one, over a 7-series any day...
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    I rode in it but didn't drive it. It was smoother than I expected and very roomy. Nice leather as well and overall a quality vehicle. The width is really something on that truck. But compared to an LX470 the ride is harsher and noisier. But then the LX rides as smooth and quiet as luxury cars. The H2 is definitely a special SUV but its not for the Lexus crowd imo.

    I do like the way the SRX looks. My wife would feel more comfortable with that then the LX. Most likely it'll come down to that, the LX and the new Lexus GX when I'm SUV shopping late next year. I may look at the Sequoia as well but given its size its a longshot.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,661
    The 7 does look awesome in the rear view mirror but then you gulp when you see the car from the side. The rear actually looks nice at night thanks to its lights but awful in daylight. The car reminds me of Seinfeld's famous "festivus" episode where Jerry had a girlfriend that looked great in certain light/shadows and terrible in others.

    new Jag - It has the first interior I've seen that rivals, maybe even beats the LS430. But I wouldn't want to own a car that has had hardly any body changes for 20+ years. I also can't forget how disappointed my next door neighbor was with his 96 model.
  • trentpatrentpa Posts: 26
    Have to agree that the 7's looks are growing on me, but only in black. Saw a silver yesterday and thought it was horrendous, from all angles.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    The soon to come redesigned Jaguar XJ looks different from the current XJ. Clearly differences are visible in from all angles, The car is slightly rounder, sleeker, and looks like it's finally in the new millenium, vs. the old one which clearly still looked like it was from the 80s. It's not revolutionary, but it is evolutionary design. I wouldn't confuse the new one when it comes out with the current model at all.
  • actually- i just saw a 745Li on the freeway (i believe black saphire metallic on grey) and that looks really appealing to me. Wondering whether or not I should have gotten the 2003 745Li instead of the 2002 S430 (cannot believe that the 745 is virtually/almost the same price as the S430)

    By the way- i had the opportunity to test drive my neighbor/friend's new black/black 745i. Looks really impressive from the side with the gigantic 19-inch wheels. Love the chrome around the windows and overall styling, but i was disapointed that BMW didn't put in a DVD-based GPS system, considering how "advanced" the car is...
  • linardlinard Posts: 59
    I personally prefer the S430 over the 745 in the style department especially an S with larger wheels. However, the interior of the 7 series, to me, feels tougher. But I think Mercedes rectified it for 2003 with new materials and switchgear. The problem with the 7 series is that the technicians do not know how to service the car. My close friend has a 745Li that has had around 20 days of non-service from minor warning lights to not starting at all. Each time, the dealership has not been able to quickly determine the problem. She has lately had issues with the whole I-Drive system, a warning chime for the seatbelt that wouldn't go off for 20 minutes went off when she tried to use the phone. Her voice activated system has been erratic but that wouldn't be a problem if the screen worked. I think she's going to trade it in with 2,000 miles for the revamped S500.
  • nealm1nealm1 Posts: 154
    You might be right, since I haven't seen the vehicle. (The Jag website doesn't even have a picture of the 2004). But the NYT article quoted (a) insiders at MB & BMW (b) industry observers and (c) Jag executives all of whom were quoted as saying that the new car is virtually indistinguishable from the existing model. (a) and (b) were asking what in the world Jag could have been thinking; (c) was defending the decision by saying that once you have found the "perfect design" there is no need to change.

    As for the 7, I was just venting some frustration at BMW, which could have had a runaway standard setting design and screwed it up from the C pillar backward (and a few of the gee-haws and doo-dads). Lexus could use some of BMW's design daring; BMW could use someone from Lexus to ask "do you really want to do that?"

    The experience of linard's friend is not surprising; anyone who bought a 7 thinking that it would be reliable hasn't been paying attention.
  • but I honestly have no idea what the c-pillar is at all. Is it the pillar that seperates the front and rear door?...

    It seems to me that those who don't drive Jag's find them kind of bland, but I have a neighbor that drives a Vanden Plas model for over 10 years or so.

    in my opinion, the s-class looks really great with Designo Espresso with the AMG chrome 18 wheels. My neighbor has one, and I cannot stop looking atit. I am either surrounded by that S500 or new 2002 jet-black on black 745Li. When I used to have a LS400, they used to keep asking me "Hey Will! STill driving that lex? Get a benz!" Alas, I did, and have had problems from day one that still aren't fixed today...
  • benznutbenznut Posts: 104
    The C Pillar is that which is situated between the rear windhsield and the rear quater glass. What separates the front and rear doors is the B pillar. And what separates the front door windows from the front windshield is the A Pillar. Hope this helps
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