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High End Luxury Cars

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Comments

  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    really knows if the LS460 is better than the LS430 until each of us test drives each of these vehicles and can then speak from experience.

    I have driven the 2005 LS430 and have been disappointed.
    I will drive the LS460 in November at one of the "Taste" events.
    I remember quite vividly what turned me off about the 2005 LS430 and I will definitely be able to tell if the new one is better.
    I look forward to the experience and I sincerely hope the LS460 is a better vehicle.
    (I do hope they got rid of that annoying lag when stepping on the accelerator).
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Well none of us really knows if the LS460 is better than the LS430

    Sorry, but I don't find it hard to say at this point that the LS460 is probably better, based upon all the feedback so far.

    I'm certainly not forming any major "in-stone" personal opinions about the vehicle yet, because I am reserving my final opinions until I have put the car through the paces. But, I'll pretty much bet the ranch that this LS460 is an improvement over the outgoing LS430. At the same token, I am not expecting it to be giant leaps beyond the previous car.

    The point I made earlier was that the Lexus engineers and executives certainly without hesitation think the vehicle is much, much better, and it was in that spirit of comparison between the new and improved LS460L and the outgoing LS430, that the statement was made to suggest that the LS430 was not up to snuff. Only by comparison.

    BTW, did I misunderstand merc's post, or did he indicate that the LS460L is an improved car compared to the LS430, in his opinion, of course, which was based upon test driving, which you say none of us has done? :P

    TagMan
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    So when a Lexus official is hyping the New LS by saying the old one wasn't a HELM, in comparison, you are betting the farm on it.

    Nope, just saying that it backs up what I've said about LS430 all along, it played in the HELM space in size, but not in price (or styling) which is why all that sales nonsense we've had to hear about all these years was just that nonsense. You should be asking your fellow Lexus fans why they aren't here to shout and give amens to what a Lexus official says, they do any other time.

    And when a Lexus official says the IS is a 3-series competitor, you can't wait to ignore that?

    Not my issue, talk to guys on the ELLPS board, they'll tell you that the IS isn't even close to the 3-Series. I'm not as hardcore as those guys, how could I be when I'm a Benz fan, the land of very few manuals!

    I think the IS is definitely a competitor to the 3-Series, but until they get the suspension tunning right and give it that manual to please the shifting crowd it won't be seen as one to those guys, but me personally I like the IS350, but I wouldn't try to go over there and float the idea of it being superior to a G35 or 335i as a sports sedan.

    Please don't talk to me about squiggly lines, that is the official practice of your camp! They switch allegiances every month depending on what type of review a Lexus gets!

    I can't help it if Lexus' folks are starting to become like GM's people by making comments about their upcoming models that don't hold water, i.e. the GS vs. 5-Series.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Exactly. Yet when a Lexus offical says that the end-all from Lexus is coming, it is supposed to be taken as gospel, now one slips and says something not in line with all the previous rhetoric and it can't be accepted and/or MB has to be brought up.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Well none of us really knows if the LS460 is better than the LS430 until each of us test drives each of these vehicles and can then speak from experience.

    Well I've driven the LS460L and I can tell you it is way better than the LS430. It doesn't exactly keel over in corners like the LS430 did, it has better seats, it even looks much better in LWB form. It has a gang more features, accelerates like it is powered by hydraulics, and is roomier. It is a stunning improvement over the previous car, there I said it. Bias, what bias?

    However if you're expecting it to drive like a BMW then you're going to be letdown, it is luxury cruiser first and it really doesn't pretend to be anything else IMO.

    M
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    730 hp and gorgeous.

    image

    image

    Some of us appreciate these things. :)

    TagMan
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Stunning! Looks like something an evil vilan in a cartoon would drive.

    M
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Dewey - Is this it?

    image

    C&D says 0-60 in 4.8 seconds with the stick!

    Heck with any child seats . . . better get helmets for the rest of the family.

    link title

    Congratulations again.

    TagMan
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    The next M3 really has some work to do in topping the "regular" 3-Series models.

    M
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    The next M3 really has some work to do in topping the "regular" 3-Series models.

    The regular 3 is now truly awesome.

    I believe the next M3 will pack a V-8, yes?

    TagMan
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I believe the next M3 will pack a V-8, yes?

    Yep, supposedly a 4L V8 cut from the same cloth as the 5L V10 in the M5/6 models, with about 420hp. With the regular 335 models putting out current M3 numbers, the new one will have to be a pretty good advance to make it relevant. I don't doubt for a min we'll get a M3 capable of sub 4.5 sec 0-60 times and handling to match.

    M
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    They had G35's to compare directly against. These under steered like a [insert comment] I should have checked the tires to see if they were unevenly matched but I forgot to look.

    Now thats odd. I've driven G35s (one X, one RWD) on two occasions. Understeer was never a problem. With the stability control on, go too heavy on the throttle when entering a corner, and even the X will oversteer. Turn off the stability control, and the G35 becomes frightening when driven fast. It will oversteer at the drop of a hat, with almost no warning, and you'll end up facing backwards.
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    Lexus' folks are starting to become like GM's people by making comments about their upcoming models that don't hold water, i.e. the GS vs. 5-Series.

    Is marketing hype unique to GM and Lexus executives, or do German execs practice it too? Like when MB execs vowed to be number 1 in quality surveys, but less than a year later backed down, saying that a German car can't be expected to rank number one based on American concepts of what constitutes quality.

    Gee, that's funny, Porsche is German, and seems to do just great in JDP surveys.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Difference is though I don't remember Germancar fans swearing by every single word a German car exec said like some of the departed used to do here. Particularly everything that Lexus' Clements used to say was taken as being gospel and when most of his comments didn't hold water they all back tracked from his ridiculous statements and boasts. After whatever he said didn't pan out, then and only then were they able to call it hype, but before that is was something to be taken as though it came from up above.

    You'll never catch me in the "oh when this guy says something it will happen" mode when it comes to something said by a Germancar executive or any other, big difference.

    Marketing hype goes across the board for sure, but the ability to recognize it as such doesn't, Lexus supporters in particular seem to have trouble with this. Clements preached and they said Amen at every turn only to have to back track once the hype didn't amount to anything.

    If you remember correctly I was the one that said there was no way MB would be #1 in those surveys in such a short period of time, never believed that hype from the start.

    I really don't want to list all the things said by Lexus executives (or one in particular) that didn't amount to anything, a long and boring list.

    M
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Rather than take Merc's word for it, I would prefer to find out for myself. However, his positive comments probably bode well for my experience. I'll see in November.

    If I find the new LS is better than the old one for me, I will admit it right here, without malice or prejudice.
    But even then so, it's just my opinion.
    Everyone should drive the vehicle and formulate their own opinions.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    I wouldn't expect it to be a BMW.
    I would expect the driver's seat to be more comfortable, not a lot of body lean, no annoying hesitation when stepping on the gas and perhaps tighter steering.
    I will find out in November. :(
    These guys must be walking here from Chicago!
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I think you'll find improvement. How tall are you?

    Oh there is no hesitation when accelerating and the seats are a definite improvement over the LS430. The body lean is still there, but it doesn't keel over and give up like the LS430 did. IMO of course, everything has been tweaked and upgraded over the LS430.

    M
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    6'2". Always tough. Even with the BMW comfort seats, there isn't quite enough seat travel for my legs.
    The only vehicle I found completely satisfying was the X5, but once I drove the 545, decided to compromise on the legroom.

    From what you say, I am looking forward to driving the LS460.

    Did you drive the GS450h?
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Well you're only an inch taller than me. However I have found that it matters most whether or not most of a person's height is torso or legs, that is where the difference lies as you indicate. Then there is the issue of how much the seat cushion will pivot (up to draw your legs back etc. ) and so on. No two butts and the bodies they're attached to are alike when it comes to car seats. ;) I've watched people get into a Volvo S80 and complain that the seats were uncomfortable, unbelievable IMO.

    Yes I drove the GS450h too. If you don't listen to the powertrain you'd swear the car was propelled by a V8, it is that powerful. There was a clicking/beeping coming from the rear of the car whenever I put my foot to the carpet, not sure what that was. To me it and the GS350 felt identical to the GS430 I drove the year before.

    M
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    I am mostly legs which eliminates many cars and airline seats.
    Flew first class to Hawaii and didn't have enough leg room!

    How were the steering and the brakes in the GS450h?
    That adaptive steering and the sensitive brakes in the GS430 were deal-breakers for me.
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