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High End Luxury Cars

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  • As a 22 year old, I can say that I would never choose Cadillac over BMW, Lexus or even MB! My parents own brand new 2003 MDX and ES300 and I m quite certain that I would snatch up our MDX over our other vehicle, ES300. But if we owned new Cadillac insetead of MDX...will I choose Cadillac over Lexus? As much as I dont like our ES300, I would take it in a heartbeat over Cadillac!!!
    Wishnhigh1, I respect your opinion. But to be realistic, if college student like me were given a choice between a 3series (even hatchback MB and ES/IS300) and a cadillac, it's definetely easy choice! Most of my peers aspire to have "athletic" BMWs, "luxurious" Lexus, and "enticing" MBs. As for Cadillac...well...we associate Cadillac as a "old" person vehicle. To be fair, you could consider my preference of luxury brand as a minority representation of young people.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    but I fail to see the productivity of this continuing argument about what appeals to a certain group of people.

    Who cares?

    All that matters is what appeals to each of you.

    Let's move on to something else, please.
  • I agree with Pat, this is a silly discussion. However, to say that the "average" young adult likes Lexus over Cadillac is pure speculation, not fact like Maxhonda likes to refer to it as.

    What the average young person likes is determined by so many different variables, mostly economic and geographic...it is impossible to generalize. Not to mention, anybody who makes an assumption on the opinions of others is also affected by their own perceptions.

    However, to say that young people DONT like Cadillacs is completely false. The cars I see every day in the student lots are a pure testament to that. Same goes with all the Cadillacs in music videos and other elements of youthful pop culture.

    That doesnt mean that BMWs, Audis(my favorite luxury cars), Lexi, MBs, etc arent popular...but it is pure speculation to say that one is more popular than the other.
  • "However, to say that the "average" young adult likes Lexus over Cadillac is pure speculation, not fact like Maxhonda likes to refer to it as."

    "However, to say that young people DONT like Cadillacs is completely false. The cars I see every day in the student lots are a pure testament to that."

    That is a contradictory statement - a student parking lot in California is not any more representative than maxhonda's opinion!
  • Read more carefully.

    To say that a group likes Brand A over Brand B is NOT the same as saying that a group does not like Brand B. Two completely seperate statements.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    move ON please

    :)
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    What is this forum going to be about once you elimate all the arguments? Why would people as a stupid question like "what is the point of this argument?" You might as well say "what is the point of Townhall?". Any topics where people dont debate are boring and sparsely attended. This topic was dead until a few days back. How long can you come here to read about the same people praising Lexus and MB over and over? If they love their cars that is beautiful but it doesnt mean we should shy away from any conflict.

    magnetophone:

    your post about cadillac not being a trendsetter was pointless. First off you mention a bunch of things that Cadillac just adopted and then say "I dont see anyone else copying them so they arent a top Luxury marque". How could anyone copy art & science after a year? Cadillac is trying to be different, they arent trying to design cars than can easily be copied. You give a lot of credit to BMW and Audi for setting trends that they didnt set. The Japanese luxury cars were the ones that forced the Germans to design inviting, logical interiors, not vice versa. The interior of a '92 Lexus was far better than the interior of any '92 Audi, MB or BMW. Look at some old motor trends if you dont believe me. While many companies have copied the handling of BMWs I dont see evidence of them copying BMWs styling or drab interiors (only recently brightened up with wood and metal accents) full of small buttons and red back lighting. The interior of the Ls430 looks better than any German interior to me, and yes Audi is included.

    You people are killing me with your XLR trashing. The car is going to be very limited production and cost thousands less than the XKR and SL500 and yet I keep hearing that no one will buy it because its a cadillac. Is that why the $85K Nieman Marcus models sold out in 14 minutes? People are saying that the car wont sell because its too expensive and its cadillac but there is no mention of the nice styling, the 315 hp engine and the state-of-the-art technology. Can anyone give me a REAL reason why it isnt an SL or XK8 competitor? Not everyone is a follower and I wish you people would get that. The car will sell because many people will want to be the first in their area to have one.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I though we already agreed on this re-tooling thing. Maybe I should have said that for SOME makers it isn't an issue. Mercedes for example has more than one plant that is able to build E-Classes. Maybe it's a problem for Honda, but not for everyone. Age and the news of a new E is what slowed the old E-Class down in the market.

    1487,

    Ok I agree with that. You admit that Audi has a better image than Cadillac? Wow, that is a revelation from you. Yes I was kinda rooting for you because as you well know I don't care much for Lexus either. But you still have that GM slant that I just can't fully agree with.

    magnetophone,

    Post #1804, EXACTLY!

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I don't think anyone is saying the XLR won't be a competitor to the SL, SC and XK8, what they're saying is that its not going to beat any of those cars. Cadillac still doesn't have the rep to command 75K for a car. A Nieman Marcus anything will sellout, Range Rovers and Thunderbirds included.

    M
  • "I don't think anyone is saying the XLR won't be a competitor to the SL, SC and XK8, what they're saying is that its not going to beat any of those cars. Cadillac still doesn't have the rep to command 75K for a car. A Nieman Marcus anything will sellout, Range Rovers and Thunderbirds included."

    Beat them how? In the opinions of Magazine editors? You yourself has denied the value of magazine comparisons, because of the strong desire to compare everything to BMW. So what else is there?

    The only real comparison is in the eye of the buyer. If the XLR sells, it sells...it doesnt matter if it is Nieman Marcus or Fisher Price.

    And if Cadillac doesn't have the rep to sell $75k cars, how do they do it?...ESPECIALLY with a car that the public has only seen pictures of?!
  • How do you guys find the time to post so much?

    Maxhonda,

    I been out of school twelve years now and back then, my favorite luxury automaker was a Cadillac and still is to this day. Cadillacs were pure luxury back then in 1990 and '91 when I begin to take interest in the product. I don't care for Mercedes or BMW back then. I thought they were ugly as sin except few of the models. I like them (luxury imports) a lot better now but if I had a limited amount of income to choose between the STS, S500, or 745Li, I would choose the STS. Although the S500 and 745Li maybe a better car than the STS and in another league, the STS is an excellent luxury car without explaining itself to anyone.

    magnetohpone,

    What you said about Cadillacs being seen in poorer neighborhoods is somewhat spot on. That might been one of the reasons why I liked Cadillacs so much but calling them chump change is way off base. Most Cadillacs around here are driven by older people but more than 1/4ths. of age groups driving older models are younger people.

    However Matt, in the future, what you said about Cadillacs being driven by poorer people seems to be racist if you know what I mean. In poorer neighborhoods, African Americans predominantly live in those neighborhoods. Although you did not say that but anyone can read between the lines. So base on what you see, don't create a stereotype if you don't have a clue what's going on around you. I can easily say only white people drive BMWs and Porches out of ignorance which is false so clean up your posts a bit, please.

    Now to anyone, you guys need to stop being critics. I can tell you several number of Cadillacs that does get crossed shop between the high end competitors. It may not happen as commonly like the LS 430 between S 500 and 7 series but it does happen. The DTS may not be cross shopped according to you guys but it does and I can tell you some posters and their friends chose a DTS over a BMW, Lexus and Mercedes. So, if the car meets certain peoples needs so beat it if Cadillac won them over from Lexus or Mercedes.

    Also for those people that suppose to be rich on here that did not look at a Cadillac. Guess what, some percentage of people that are rich would never consider driving a Mercedes, Bentley, Rolls, BMW, or Lexus over a Cadillac also. So you guys need to stop giving in stereotype and just worry about the automaker you like so much and cherish the car you are driving right now and stop speculating so much.

    Again, I will tell you this like I would tell any of my friends that Cadillac, IMO, makes the best looking cars than anyone. Just about all the Cadillacs currently are drop-dead gorgeous and I can't say the same much about the luxury imports except a few. That is the reason I like Cadillac so much because of styling. So, take it whatever you want but that is my bias opinion.

    Lexus cars are nice but no excitement in styling and always tend to follow.

    Mercedes are nice especially the gorgeous SL 500/55 but Mercedes does not stand out anymore because they are being copied off of by anyone from Asian like Lexus and Acura.

    BMWs creating a new regime like Cadillac is in styling but their cars are funky looking to me like the new 7 and Z4.

    Jaguars have the most beautiful interior designs in its class but the exteriors are too old school and boring. I can't understand why anyone one consider the exterior of the Jaguars gorgeous anyhow. They simply are not.

    Audis are cutting edge in All-wheel drive and looks to be a contender in a few years but shared platforms a little too much like VWs. is turning me off.

    So, therefore Cadillac is the leader in styling direction, among the top in technology and best of all. They are original and they never imitate or duplicate. That is why I like them so much.

    J "CaddyLac"
  • I never spoke of a racial connection to Cadillacs. At least where I live, most African-Americans don't live in the "poor" part of town. The "poor" part of town is about 1/10th the population of the city, so not many people at all live in the poor part of town. t's just something I've noticed. Lexi are also very common in poorer parts of town, but I wouldn't veture to say a particular race drives either.

    My aunt and cousins are Kenyan, and I also have a Vietnamese aunt and my parents are immigrants, so I wouldn't worry about me being racist.
    .
  • pcbrspcbrs Posts: 56
    J CaddyLac-

    "Mercedes are nice especially the gorgeous SL 500/55 but Mercedes does not stand out anymore because they are being copied off of by anyone from ASIAN like Lexus and Acura."

    Some may construe this as being racist as well, and ask you to "clean up your post". My guess is that you didn't mean it in that way, since you seem like a nice guy. But just goes to show how posts can be misinterpreted if read with a certain perspective.

    -Jeff
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Oh my, could we just talk about CARS???

    Again, it seems absolutely pointless to argue about (which is very different than "debating") what vehicle appeals to any given segment of society.

    Let's talk about what we appeals to each of us individually and not worry about categorizing people in any way.

    It's not necessary and the direction in which we've been going isn't even reasonable.

    Please, no more last words on this subject -- it is closed.

    Move on.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    "Beat them how? In the opinions of Magazine editors? You yourself has denied
    the value of magazine comparisons, because of the strong desire to compare
    everything to BMW. So what else is there? "

    Obviously you haven't been paying attention, I said that I'm tired of magazines ranking cars below BMWs soley because of handling. If you read some of my other posts I usually more or less agree with MOST comparo's. In the case of this class of cars (SC430, SL500, XK8/R and XLR) handling isn't going to be as big of a deciding factor and better yet BMW isn't even competing in this class. Pay closer attention.

    Nieman Marcus can sell anything in a hot moment. When the XLR goes 3 years with constant sales it will be a success. The list of fallen-off cars at these prices is a long one, SC400, NSX, 850Ci etc and you can probably add the SC430 to the list by 2004. The previous SL didn't have such a problem, with 1997 (it's 8th(!) model year) being it's best year. Thats success.

    J "CaddyLac,

    "Audis are cutting edge in All-wheel drive and looks to be a contender in a few years but shared platforms a little too much like VWs."

    What is the disadvantage of this? Audi and VW are far more seperated than others who do the same thing, including Lexus, Cadillac and Acura. And Audi is a "contender" right now, easily ahead of everyone except MB, BMW and arguably Lexus.

    "Mercedes are nice especially the gorgeous SL 500/55 but Mercedes does not stand out anymore because they are being copied off of by anyone from Asian like Lexus and Acura."

    To some that may be so, but for those who like Mercedes it's all the more reason to want the "original". I'm not sure how your remarks can be seen as racist though, Acura and Lexus are Asian cars. I'm lost on that one.

    M
  • Nieman Marcus can sell anything at the moment? I dont know about you, but I buy a car, not an "edition".

    As far as comparisons and your terms of success...we'll just have to wait and see. All your comments are pure speculation. I predict the best...in fact, I can see Cadillac up there with making a big dent in sales of Audi, BMW, Mercedes, and Lexus, in the coming 4 or 5 years.
  • O.K., I see what you meant now when you explained what you meant. Though I misunderstood when I was reading earlier in your post. Anyway, lets move talking about cars.

    Merc1,

    Can you enlightened us on the connotation of what the letters stand for? Remember in the CTS topic of how screwed up the Cadillac naming has been. Now what does C in "C Class", E and S in model classes stand for. I think if I recall you said SL stands for "small light" or sport light".

    On the Phaeton and new A8, the side profile looks very similar. However, I don't think I would spend $70,000 on it and I could get the A8. By the looks of the pictures, I am not too sure I really like the looks of the car (A8). I prefer the current A8 model which is very classy and elegant. The Phaeton to me is a touring car that is not sporty at all but on the inside, it is in another league of its on. Also too, I think the current A4 is gorgeous. I can see myself in this car as well. I don't know if you agree or not but is it me or is it that every time I use the word gorgeous about cars, cars look better and more stylish each generation. Don't you seem to agree. I used that word on various Cadillacs, on the SL and now on the A4.

    J "CaddyLac"
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    Neiman Marcus selling out of XLR's means nothing.

    Remember, Neiman Marcus also sold a version of the Thunderbird. And they sold them out quickly also. How is the Thunderbird doing now? It sure doesn't have a 1-year waiting list.

    The C-class, E-class, and S-class designations don't really mean anything. The C, E, and S, basically designate where the car is in the model hierarchy. C would be below E, E would be below S. It is similar to what BMW does except with they do it with number designations.
  • Neiman Marcus can do whatever he wants to the XLR but it still will be a Cadillac. Remember all cadillac's are, are nicer varients of Chevy GMC and oldsmobile's. For me im sticking to my 03 SL63.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    "Nieman Marcus can sell anything at the moment? I dont know about you, but I buy a car, not an "edition"."

    And that means what? Cadillacers are touting that the Nieman Marcus XLR sold out so fast, and I'm basically saying that means nothing.

    "I can see Cadillac up there with making a big dent in sales of Audi, BMW, Mercedes, and Lexus, in the coming 4 or 5 years."

    Also pure speculation.

    J "CaddyLac",

    Well Maxhonda touched on it, and he's basically right. The "E" used to mean gasoline when they put the E after the engine size, like 300E, D was for diesels as in 300D. Now as per the last time they were laid out for me, they meant Compact (C), Executive (E) and Super for (S). Now SL, and SLK, CLK all have more meaning. Coupe, Short, Light, for CLK. Sport Light, is for SL, Coupe Light is for CL. All of this is translated from German words.

    benzbuddy,

    A SL63? Care to explain that one to me?

    M
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