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High End Luxury Cars



  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    The 7-Series (well that is not a real HELM), but for the most part, the S-Class achieves what MB wanted it to do.

    The 7 series is not a real HELM :confuse:

    IMO the A8L is no HELM if the 7 series is no HELM. Your opinions and my opinions dont really matter one bit since the world knows that both the A8 and 7 Series are real HELMs.

    CAR is notorious for it anti-Audi tribble and its kissing a$$ of BMW.

    CAR and almost every major auto magazine in the world kisses BMW a$$. Why? Is it a conspiracy? Are most auto journalists under control from Bavaria? Or are the majority of auto journalists ignorant about cars? No, no and no again. Is it maybe because BMWs are really that good? Maybe?

    This whole idea that most opinions among auto journalists are drivel is mainly held by disgruntled individuals whose favorite cars are not favored by the press. Maybe you will change your mind when Audi manages to improve the reviews of their cars . In that case I assume you would consider auto journalists far more objective. :P

    At the end of the day the most important reviewer is the car buyer/leaser himself. But that does not in anyway diminish the role of a good auto reviewer. Most of us in this forum read auto mags for a reason and it is certainly not to waste our time. There are many good auto magazine reviewers that do provide valuable and different perspectives about a car.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    I like the Tiger/Nicholas analogy because it compares the acknowledged standard of excellence against the upstart, the Next Great One. I didn't use it to compare Nicholas today to Tiger today.

    If you asked Tiger Woods who is the greatest golfer ever, he'd say Jack, no question. Lexus would give Mercedes the same respect.

    The S550 is the "benchmark". Period. Ok? Not disputing that.

    Is that the end of the story? I think not.

    All I know about the two cars is the LS was more tasteful and elegant, especially out back, after seeing them together.

    My "extreme remarks" were always qualified with Maybe, or words to that effect. Again, the car isn't out yet. The LS always competes well against ANY luxury car, because it has been that good.

    All I'm sayin' is the LS460 has all the ingredients to be the new "benchmark".

    What was the Toyota Camry before the 1992 redesign? The Camry is now the standard, ever since.

    That might be a more "balanced" Camry comparison, because that may not be so far-fetched.

    I will drive the LS460, and hopefully the S550, on the 29th.

  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    That's why even though the LS review from C&D has been especially disappointing, after some initial hesitation, I do intend to drive the LS next month and find out for myself.
    If nothing else, it will give me some insight as to where the Lexus posters are coming from.

    It would be nice if all regular posters here would test drive as many of the HELM offerings that we discuss here as they can so we can compare notes.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    I wont. I will have to wait until I reach an age where a stick and a stiff sporty rideis no longer important to me.
    Hopefully my great grand children will give me a soft riding luxury car during my 100th birtday.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    if you are going to mention one of the greatest golfers of all time, at least take the trouble to look up the correct spelling of his name: It's Nicklaus, not Nicholas.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    And do you really think that after they give you that 2064 LS 870, the one that is absolutely guaranteed this time to be the 7 Series killer, that you will actually be able to see it?
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Y'know, Doc, I previously replied to your post with a "copy/paste" on your misspelling of Nicklaus as Nicholas, so it seems I've become your accomplice here in the misspelled golfers crime. To be fair, I'll have to split the fine with you. ;)

    Back to your post, I get your point this time.

    It's all starting to heat up a bit isn't it? As we get closer to the real understanding of what an LS460 truly is and isn't, and how it will honestly compare to the offerings from Mercedes, BMW, Audi, and even Jaguar.

    It will be interesting, and I do hope that we are able to reach some areas of agreement as to how the LS460 ultimately stacks up. That will depend, of course, on how objective we are able to be.

    If history is any lesson, it ain't gonna be all that easy.

    But who knows, maybe the qualities of the LS will be so obvious that they will leave little room for doubt or debate.

    Since I won't be participating in one of the Lexus driving promotions, I will ultimately inspect and test drive the vehicle when it becomes possible at a local dealership.

    After that, we'll be in a better position to compare notes.

  • brightness04brightness04 Posts: 3,151
    C&D had a single preproduction unit for test, under conditions that are not specified. Carmakers publish statistic expectation values of a model run with margins of confidence that they are comfortable to live with. The 0-60 number of your specific 545i is unknown until someone tests it . . . on a hot desert with bald tires, chances are that it won't make 5.4 or 6.
  • brightness04brightness04 Posts: 3,151
    Most of us in this forum read auto mags for a reason and it is certainly not to waste our time.

    Actully, yes. Most auto mags are in the leisure, past-time and entertainment section, not considered peer-reviewed scientific journals or real news, the last time i checked.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    I know what it feels like to be that fast, and I will be able to tell if the LS is closer to the 5.4 as claimed or the 6.0 that C&D found.

    If a Lexus rep accompanies you in the right passenger seat, make sure he understands your driving techniques and then proceed to offer him a vomit bag.

    Let me know what you think the 0-100 time is, please. This should prove to be more representative of the way you and I drive, anyway. ;) Since you'll already be at 100, might as well check the 100-0 braking distance, to check for any grabbiness.

    Good luck with your mission. Lethal force is prohibited. And don't eat that pate until after your drive. We wouldn't want your reflexes slowed down.

  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    And do you really think that after they give you that 2064 LS 870, the one that is absolutely guaranteed this time to be the 7 Series killer, that you will actually be able to see it?

    A 8.7L V8 from Lexus seems somewhat unlikely. I'm thinking by 2064, the LS will be hydrogen\electric with a motor per wheel. Ultra capacitors and extremely powerful electric motors will eliminate the need for a traditional big engine.
  • brightness04brightness04 Posts: 3,151
    I believe that there will be a substantial number of neutral consumers that will discover this truth, and not be swayed by marketing or gimmicks, but by the genuine realities of these vehicles.

    We will certainly see the result of competition shortly. Within a couple years, we will probably see substantial lease subsidy on one of the two models . . . talk about marketting gimmick :-)
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    extremely powerful electric motors

    Those will also power the massage recliners in the back seats while watching the motorized 42" plasma satellite TV with THX 7.1 surround sound utilizing Mark Levinson Jr.'s 48-speaker 5000 watt system.

    And of course Lexus in the year 2064, still trying to conquer BMW, will have their new slogan: "Lexus - The Ultimate Passenger's Machine".

  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    BMW is more robust than ever. The company has become the industry benchmark for high-performance premium cars, customized production, and savvy brand management, making it the envy of Mercedes-Benz (DCX ), Audi, and Lexus and the subject of Harvard Business School case studies. Even mighty Toyota Motor Corp. (TM ) regularly dispatches engineers to BMW's factories to see how the company cranks out 1.3 million customized cars a year.

    Wow! This is a terrific in-depth article on BMW that we should all appreciate (especially hpowders and Dewey).

    BusinessWeek - BMW's Dream Factory

  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Great read! It is no secret that BMW has been a better run company than either Mercedes or VW/Audi for a few years now. While VW dreamed of selling Mercedes-priced cars/suvs and Mercedes tried to cheap out on quality and buy up other troubled companies, BMW stayed true. Truthly I've liked BMW as a company better than Mercedes for a while now. Mercedes is still finding its way back as is VW/Audi. Only Porsche is run any better IMO when it comes to German car companies.

    BMW is also willing to take more styling risks than either MB or VW/Audi too. You'd think with all the complaints and general dislike of idrive and their newly launched styling theme (2002 7-Series) BMW would be in trouble now, but just the opposite has happened. So much for critics.

    That part about Toyota sending people to BMW factories to look at their production techniques isn't going to be accepted by some of the Toyota/Lexus faithful.

  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Wow! Looking forward to it. My 120 year old body should be just right for it by then. :(
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    as a company right now, I would be selling Toyota stock at this time and buying BMW shares aggressively.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    When I drive the LS next month, I should have some idea of how fast it accelerates. Mine is about 5.5, pretty much the same.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    I hope there is no Lexus rep. For that, I could visit a Lexus dealer for a test drive.

    My mission at the Lexus Taste arranged in descending order of importance after a 4 hour drive will be:
    restroom, wine, pate, restroom, acceleration, braking, cornering, Maalox, restroom, drive home.
    It's always good to have a plan. :)
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,777
    Too bad you had to explain it to them. Your first post went right over their heads!!

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460

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