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High End Luxury Cars

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  • I never said that the current Audi lineup had been in production for decades. I was using the Audi A4 cabrio only as an example of advance sales causing a waiting list of a year. I was not indicating that this is any kind of sales success or longetivity, just an example of why "3,000 sales in one day" means almost nothing.

    The reason the Cimmaron was a failure was because it didn't redefine the class or do anything to advance small car luxury. For Cadillac's terms, it sold poorly - they were the #1 luxury car maker at the time and 50,000 units or less a year is infitesimal.
  • fjk57702fjk57702 Posts: 539
    What you said in general is that for a car to be successful, a model has to be in production for decades and sell consistently. I think that is nonsense. Cadillac has been in production for a hundred years and has had great influence on the luxury car market over that time period.
  • Cadillac's also had almost 25 years of mediocre cars, which to me indicates a consistently subpar reputation. Let's agree to disagree.
  • fjk57702fjk57702 Posts: 539
    I agree that Cadillac has not built the kind of cars in the last 25 years that it built in the first 75. I hope that things will improve in the next few years. However, I do not view cars that sell for $60,000+ to be a desirable goal for Cadillac. They need to make some good medium priced luxury cars (in the $40,000+ range). I now own a Seville that I paid $40,000 for and I would say that at that price the car is not badly priced. (list was over $50,000)
  • I think Cadillac should concentrate on making their current cars better in every way possible before venturing out into a market where it is dominated by brands like Mercedes and Jaguar. The Seville and DeVille are essentially in the same class which doesn't make sense. The CTS, well to sum it up.. why so square?? Make sure that you have a good line of at least modestly successful models and then maybe, just maybe you can back a $75+ roadster.
  • a 75k flagship isnt that big of a jump.
  • I saw a CTS today with an atrocious gold package and some kind of mini-carriage roof. The car looked absolutely hideous. It's owners like this that continue to make Cadillac second-rate.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    "By the way who, in their right mind ever said Lexus would put the Germans out of business."

    Read any early 90's Car & Driver, Automobile and the like. They all said that MB and BMW would have to partner just to stay in business.

    "But in general they have made it obvious that they don't care about the opinion of the enthusiasts. "

    Well it's pretty hard to cater to both, hence the IS300's failure in the marketplace.

    M
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    "Well it's pretty hard to cater to both, hence the IS300's failure in the marketplace."

    No, it's really not hart to cater to both the enthusiast market and the target market. And I would hardly call the IS300 a failure. Sure, the IS300 hasn't sold as well as Lexus expected in the states, but elsewhere in the world the IS-series is selling well. It's main downside is that it's simply not designed for the American driver. Lexus made a boo-boo when it came to bringing the car to the US as basically a carryover from Europe.
  • mariner7mariner7 Posts: 509
    I agree with zach and fjk. Caddy & Lincoln will have to prove they can build a consistent quality 30+ car before they jump into the 70+ range. That means at least the next two generations of cts and ls will have to keep getting better. And no more than six years between generations. If more than that, customers lose interest and shop something else. It doesn't look good, Ford just axed the scheduled development of the next ls platform.

    bmw, mb, lexus build trust because their models keep improving every five, six years. Their reputation isn't built in a day.

    My advice is Caddy & Lincoln: go slow
  • ejerodejerod Posts: 86
    Was away for a while in the mountains. Had to get away to refresh my brain. Anyway, to answer your question 1487, no I'm not feeling sorry for you my friend. I think you're smart enough that one day you'll find your niche and achieve whatever it is in life you were created for. I'm a private banker with my own firm. That allows me to live a full and wonderful life. I'm not one that worships at the alter of the almighty dollar, but I do believe in hard work and planning.. Thanks for responding, and happy motoring everyone..
  • fjk57702fjk57702 Posts: 539
    Both models are based on the 1995 Aurora platform. The Deville has a longer wheelbase ( about 3 inches) and a longer body (about 6 inches). The STS has larger antiroll bars, so handling may be better.

    The Seville will become a rear wheel drive model based on the CTS's sigma platform for the 2004 model year or perhaps the 2005 model year. Probably an early 2005 model. The Seville is whats left of Cadillacs Fleetwood models. This implys a better grade of interior refinement, but I'm not sure that you actually get much.
  • "I saw a CTS today with an atrocious gold package and some kind of mini-carriage roof. The car looked absolutely hideous. It's owners like this that continue to make Cadillac second-rate."

    Gee, I have seen a few S and E-class Mercedes-Benz models with full carraige roofs...does that mean MB is second rate too?

    "I agree with zach and fjk. Caddy & Lincoln will have to prove they can build a consistent quality 30+ car before they jump into the 70+ range. That means at least the next two generations of cts and ls will have to keep getting better."

    I agree. Mercedes Benz should stop production of the S class until they build a car with consistent quality.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    S-class and E-class with full carriage roofs? Huh. Where have you seen those? I've never come across one of those.
  • I have seen two E class sedans with full carraige roofs, one in Santa Barbara, one in Sacramento, and an S class in the east bay somewhere.
  • carnaughtcarnaught Posts: 1,569
    I think you've seen the only Mercedes' with carriage roofs that exist....
  • Yeah, i see dozens of Mercedes a day and never have seen one of those.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    " It's main downside is that it's simply not designed for the American driver."

    Then why bother? The car has been a comercial failure here, the place that matters to me. I still say it's hard to cater to both the enthusiast and the pure luxury folks all in the same brand. Lexus hasn't been able to do it so far. Both of their "sporty" cars simply don't sell, the IS300 and especially the GS430. Think about it, BMW is all about sport first, Mercedes usually tries to sit in the middle and Lexus (except for one model) is all about Luxury. Audi probably does both the best, if you discount Mercedes having AMG. Wishnhigh1, what you think?

    _______

    I've seen at least one of every luxury brand's cars with a cloth top or some other silly add-on, but the difference between Lexus/MB and Cadillac is that Cadillac dealers still stock these cars on their lots. The Caddy dealer here (Town and Country Cadillac of Naperville) regularly has DeVilles done up in this way. You'd practially have to tell an MB dealer that you're not going to buy the car in order to get them to do such a thing to a Benz.

    M
  • Its a trend that started on the west coast, and will probably die on the west coast. Im not saying that they arent rare, Im saying that owners personal preferences should not determine the worth of the brand, like magneto implied.
  • nealm1nealm1 Posts: 154
    "I still say it's hard to cater to both the enthusiast and the pure luxury folks all in the same brand."

    If these are mutually exclusive, to which does MB cater?
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