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High End Luxury Cars



  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    1487, List the flaws on each cars. NOt looking to start a argument, just want to see your views on the major flaws of each.

    For once, I also have to agree with you flaws over all car makes. I don't think the CTS's image has been harmed at all. More to the point, the CTS really doesn't have major flaws. Styling could be a flaw, but we won't go there, being that it is subjective. One sees beauty, one sees beast. Overall, I can't see anything that would have tarnished the CTS's reputation in 2003, I mean there are no major recalls, no major reliability problems. It's only real flaws are lack of manual trans., the powerplant's a little outdated, and the interior could use some work in the quality of materials dept.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    fjk57702, You seem to have left alot of cars out, only the S-class, 7-series and A8 are high-end luxury sedans? You're missing a whole lot.

    Forgetting the Lexus LS430 and Jaguar XJ8.
  • fjk57702fjk57702 Posts: 539
    Those should qualify too. I consider Rolls way beyond high-end. I think Cadillac isn't quite there. But all in all, Cadillac is not a bad car, if you can get one for $10000 off list.

    After looking at the prices, the lexus is maybe not quite there.
  • the CTS does have a manual transmission, and will have a new V6 and an available V8 next year I believe, and also I have heard that the interior styling will change.
  • You can't just go by price. The LS430 definately fits in the category, judging by the cars many buyers are chosing between, and the target markets. Some of the owners (for whom the $ wasn't a big issue) have chosen it over S500's. Toyota is just able to offer the car at a great price. The value you get for the dollar shouldn't diminish the status of the car. An 85,000 Yugo (I don't want to get anyone's dander up) still wouldn't make the high end luxury marque grade, but the 55-75K LS does.
  • A lot of Lexus owners who prefer the LS430 were weaned on Lexuses.. they were part of the newer-money younger group and have stuck with what they started on.

    Any brand can be a good brand with the right reliability and quality and design to back it up. There are plenty of once-sorry brands that are now considered upwardly mobile... Audi, Skoda, even Toyota and Hyundai to an extent.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    " I make that acknowledge flaws in Cadillac."

    I guess that means you see that Cadillac has a problem.

    " What I said was that many entry level luxury cars have interiors that need work. Any comment on that? "

    No, because we weren't talking about the other cars here, just Cadillac. Why is that so hard to understand? This was about Cadillac, not the rest. Plus no other car other than the IS300 has to have their interior redone in just one model year.

    I said that Cadillac will have trouble selling a car for 80K. Yes that is my opinion and everyone else's in the car industry. Why is that you brought up how many cars Cadillac sells and what prices they sell them at? For one Cadillac hasn't done anything in the last 30+ years that warrant them selling anything near 80K. Nothing. Why is it that GM fans are the ones that can't grasp the concept of lineage and reputation? DeVilles are discounted heavily as are Sevilles. Cadillac hasn't groomed anyone for a 80K car, so yes that price for a Cadillac will be a shock for many. The same price shock that you're trying to imply that VW will have Cadillac will also have.

    " Once again I state, this is not VW, this is cadillac. They are not going from entry level cars to super-lux cars. Theya re going from semi-expensive vehicles to very expensive vehicles. They are also planning V12 powered models that will cost more than the XLR."

    For once you're correct, Cadillac isn't VW. The difference there is VW makes at least ONE car that is at the top of their respective class. Cadillac doesn't have one car that is anywhere near the top of any class. VW is doing what Lexus did in 1990, but with the same brand. Cadillac is reaching for new heights and hasn't truly made a mark on their present market.

    About the CTS. Why is it that only Cadillac introduces a car for one year and then promises that next years will be better. Why not the best car possible at launch? If you can't see that some buyers are turned off by that then you don't understand the luxury market. You mention the Audi A6. That car made it on styling and quality of build alone and it's available with other engines. Nor was the original A6 2.8 billed as a sports sedan in the same way the CTS is.

    Please list all the major flaws for those luxury cars that caused their makers to install a totally new base engine and redo their interiors in just ONE model year. Those things having to be done to the CTS scream half-baked, unfinished product. Period.

  • fjk57702fjk57702 Posts: 539
    Well, the CTS was introduced by the old GM management and it was the car they wanted. Lutz is the new GM management and he decided that the CTS needed to be better. The CTS interior is on a par with the 3 series and other competition I think. Personally, I think the door trim needs some work and the car would be much nicer (at least the luxury package should upgrade the door trim more than just a few sticks of wood).

    Anyone who does not understand that GM management has recently undergone a change in management is totally clueless. This comment is not directed at anyone in particular.
  • Yet we have to wait and see what a post-Lutz car looks like.
  • fjk57702fjk57702 Posts: 539
    If you all would look back at the beginning of this thread, you will see that the base price should exceed $49999.99 to qualify as high end. Cadillac does not meet these qualifications with any current production model. The CTS is not even close. I fail to see why Cadillac is a topic of discussion here.
  • The Escalade is the only cadillac product that generally ends up being sold for more than $50K, so I agree.
  • fjk57702fjk57702 Posts: 539
    The base price was the critiera, not the fully optioned out price. And I would go on to say the base model (for example the base Deville) sets the base price. Thus for Mercedes, the S class qualifies while the E class does not.

    So, lets try to get this discussion back on track.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    "I fail to see why Cadillac is a topic of discussion here."

    True, the CTS definately isn't high end, and neither is the DTS or STS. And as far as the XLR goes, it will be high end, but this is a "sedans" topic. Someone should create a convertible high end topic and rant all about how the XLR will squash the competition.

    This topic should be discussing the LS430, A8, 745i, S-class, XJ8, and I know I'm probably missing a couple of other cars.
  • The VW Phaeton!
  • brtmdbrtmd Posts: 54
    Re # 1892: Your thoughts on "weaning" are probably true for some. It was just the opposite for me; I was weaned on Mercedes and ended up choosing the LS over the S and 7. When the time comes again to choose a new vehicle, I will probably be looking at the same "good brands". Perhaps by then MB will have their reliability back where I feel it should be.
    Maybe the Phaeton will make my shopping list next time around.
  • Well, I look at it like this way - Mercedes-Benz is the brand I want to own when I am a rich person. Granted I do have a 190E now, but that's not a new Benz.

    If I am anything less than rich, I want a car that is a safer, more affordable investment to begin with and Mercedes is not that. But if money is no object, neither are repair bills.
  • brtmdbrtmd Posts: 54
    magnetophone: I understand what you are saying. But for me, repair bills and affordability were not the issue in my decision. My "happiness" and time are more valuable to me than my money--in all situations. Dealing with a variety of irksome problems became annoying and competed with my enjoyment of the vehicle. So far I have had nothing but enjoyment from my Lexus, and zero problems; I couldn't even imagine that was possible a few months ago. BTW, many people are rich in part because they refuse to say "money is no object".
  • "BTW, many people are rich in part because they refuse to say "money is no object"."

    Amen to that. It is the people that say "money is no object" that fulfill the fool part of the saying "A fool and his money are soon parted".
  • I just browsed through the BMW movies. They do a great job defining the image they want to level performance. I could never imagine Lexus going for an ad campaign like that, even though they could probably get a pro driver to mimic most of the same actions. I guess I see these two as the alpha and omega of the group as far as the comfort/performance spectrum. I think it would be hard for anyone who "feels right" in one of these to be really comfortable owning the other.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I hardly agree with that. The CTS' interior isn't on par with the 3-Series, not at all. The CTS needs more wood or none at all. That coating on the top of the dash feels terrible. The E500 is definitely "high-end" going by that 49.9K threshold.

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