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High End Luxury Cars

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  • brightness04brightness04 Posts: 3,151
    Thanks for bringing that to my attention. I was not using the word as a cussword. It's normal for people have biases. Value is subjective anyway. So long as they don't mind others reminding them of their own biases, don't lie, don't launch into personal atttacks instead of mustering logical arguments to support their biases, I'm perfect okay with that.

    I currently own a Euro and a Japanese car myself; and like I said before, if the Euro's prove great deals in overall (termed) ownership cost, I don't mind getting one.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    Who's left the site besides dewey?
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    You have right to post your criticism lf LS460, so long as Edmunds tolerates it, whether such criticism is valid or not."

    Well, my criticisms of the LS460 echoed those of the Edmunds reviewer in his test drive of the vehicle, so if they don't tolerate my criticisms, it would be quite hypocritical.

    I'm sure I will have fun at the event. Thanks! :)
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    "I don't think you will see him running."

    Ya got that right!

    It's a free country. Everybody's got a right to post and also not to post if it is going to get you involved in a circular argument going nowhere.
    I don't agree with someone completely quitting the thread just because of an argument between 2 immovable forces.
    Heck, there'd be nobody left here, if that was the case!
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,863
    Well, the point is that NOBODY should leave. Hopefully Dewey is just taking a break. Oac should not have left either. Hopefully he will be back. Tag has said he won't engage Brightness any more. That is just not like him and I hope he reconsiders.

    Brightness should be welcomed here as someone who is fairly objective, has prejudices like the rest of us, is knowlegable and knows how to debate. What's not to like about that?

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    But the guy that syswei was referring did have some valid points. The build quality of the LS, never a sour point, seems to be taken up a bit further. And the interior decor of the car I witnessed was simply stunning, altho the word peerless does not come to mind as it won't have Audi designers and engineers up at night.

    Oh I agree. The most interesting comment I thought was about the paint quality, in this area Lexus has always been behind the Germans. The interior design is not hugely different from the 430's, but the materials do seem much richer and more luxurious. I agree about Audi's interiors... at least in the A8 which is definitely world class. The A4 though has a last gen look on the inside, they didnt change enough from the previous A4. The A6\Q7 interior I'm not nuts about. I prefer the previous A6's design.

    Interestingly, while the LS430 looked fine without the NAV system, the 460 looks horrible. C&D's test 460L didn't have NAV, and the center stack was just a wall of buttons.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    I agree. I also disagree with other posters going out of their way to indicate they would rather respond to another poster's contribution rather than yours. I find this rather insensitive as there is no need to go out of one's way to hurt another poster's feelings. You don't want to respond, don't. No need to announce it.

    Looking forward to checking out that 19 speaker ML system in the new LS. Getting my behind soothed from the swirling cool air emanating from that buttery soft perforated driver's seat won't hurt much either. Four more weeks.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    I hear you on the paint quality.

    The 460 I saw was in a brilliant graystone metallic. This car makes some "base" German paints look econo, but the optional paints from MB and Audi are still tops.

    And on the Audi interiors, I love the simplicity of the '98-'04 A6 over the current. That car's interior had a certain flare to it that was, at the time, unmatched in that class. And yes, the A4's interiors is nothing to boast about. It still has an edge over the 3 and C-Class, but given that these models aren't what you'd call a showstopper in the interior department, that's not saying much.

    I hope that with the new '08 A4 they'll get back to the basics and infuse this car with the usual Audi glamour. This to go along with the new platform that is supposed to have BMW shakin' in their boots as Audi has stolen the top 20 engineers from BMW.

    BTW: I thought I was the only one that thought the LS460 without NAV looked WORSE than a Camry's IP/dash. It simply looks down right spartan. NAV will be a must....
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 5,863
    The Tigers in 5 or better.

    Well, maybe 5 but not better. Some writer predicted the Tigers in 3. I think he may have stirred up a hornets nest!

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • anthonypanthonyp Posts: 1,857
    `Lord I sure would hate to hurt your feelings`, and may have done so by accident...I have posted your name hpowers vs hpowders, and am guilty...Sorry...I noticed with your (Sic) about a hundred posts ago...Now that I have cleared the air on that blunder, I hope Tag and Bright step back with mutual respect....Tag blasted me a year or so ago, when i tried to respond to an Audi question-----before they began to get noticed----and accepted his quasi apolagy, and have gone on to throughly enjoy his posts and largely agree with him...In fact I enjoy all the participants, but hugely disagree with Steve on the pricing, as I am the one who has to pay the bill...I understand his and the good Doc position though....Tony PS it may not have been Tag--that`s what forgiveness is all about forget
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    Just got back from Belmont. Some informational tidbits I got from chatting with the LS specialist (to be taken with a grain of salt...he seemed reasonably well-informed, but could be wrong about certain things)

    -LS600hL will start around 88k...at that price, it will be configured as in the preview brochure

    -AWD will come to the LS460 late CY2007 at the earliest. Original plan had been CY2008, but they are working to move it up. Big disappointment to me personally, as I require AWD and the 600hL's trunk is going to be too small for me.

    -Top management has mandated that every Lexus vehicle will be offered with a hybrid option by the end of 2009, at a price premium of no more than $1500. He said some of the engineers are a bit panicked about this (I assume because the price point will be a challenge).

    -Lexus is "toying" with diesel and/or diesel/hybrid for the LS. Doesn't sound like a near-term event. When I suggested that clean diesel circa CY2007 from the Germans looks pretty interesting vs hybrid, he said that GM has shown that designing good diesel engines is easier than designing a good hybrid system.

    -Neither the LS or GS guys had heard of the JX.

    As far as my personal experience with the drives, I think a 1-minute test drive isn't enough to guage a vehicle. My only comment from the short experience with the LS is that the steering felt a bit light to me. I got on line for the S550 but gave up after 10 minutes because it looked like the line would take another 30-40 minutes....they didn't have as many S550s or 750s as compared to the LS. I also drove the IS250 and IS350, RX400h, and ES350, as they had shortish lines. Overall, it was pretty fun for me because I normally don't drive aggressively...at this event, one of the Lexus people told me to "take a little off next time" after I finished with the ES350, and that driving that aggressively (I had made the tires, which I assume were not very sporting, squeal like crazy, and the VDIM or something beep at me) was more appropriate for the GS/IS course. (And I hadn't even hit any cones, which is something I saw one guy do in the S550, and heard another guy talk about doing in both the LS and S.)

    Anyway, for me personally, an LS460 in AWD trim is still the leading possibility, but we're talking 12+ months from now based on availability, and I'll be able to take lenghthy test drives of the S and new 7 when the time comes. So, I'm keeping an open mind.
  • guestguest Posts: 774
    Since the LS will be a smash hit, delaying the AWD only makes sense, as it will not be needed early on, and it's a nice follow up to a strong 2007.

    I have to confirm, but I should be scheduled for A Taste next Sunday.

    Want to drive the S, the IS350, and the LS. :)

    DrFill
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Well I didn't realize the Cards were going to wake up and play great baseball. The Tigers should have learned from the Mets-if you want to beat the Cards you have to pitch around Pujols no matter what.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Well Tony, I tried sending the spelling police over to your house, but Edmunds wouldn't give me your address. ;)

    I agree with you. Hopefully all former posters taking a "sabbatical leave" will come back one day.

    It's only cars. There is so much to life that is really more important. Some folks are taking this stuff much too seriously and are exhibiting childish behavior. Boycotting the HELM thread. Do you realize how ridiculous this sounds? Life is too short to waste it on being angry and carrying grudges.
    Nobody should really care that much if I prefer BMW to Lexus.

    To each his own and peace be with everybody. :)
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Well I do hope they give us more than 1 minute driving each vehicle at the Taste of Lexus. I am traveling rather far.
    The only 2 cars I will be checking out are the LS460 and ES350. I will be keeping in mind that these 2 cars have been deliberately engineered toward luxury. I will not be driving them with BMW performance in mind.
    The IS is too cramped for me and the GS450h is a disaster.
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    BTW at the NY event, the only non-Lexus vehicles were the 750 and S.

    You can always get back in line and drive again, and I've no idea how crowded/uncrowded it will be at the event you go to. But it does seem like a long way to drive. You could instead opt to take the vehicles out for extended drives at your local dealer. Some dealers will even loan you a demo car overnight.
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    Some folks are taking this stuff much too seriously and are exhibiting childish behavior. Boycotting the HELM thread. Do you realize how ridiculous this sounds? Life is too short to waste it on being angry and carrying grudges.

    100% agreed. In the past I have sometimes gotten frustrated myself, and even took a sabbatical once. But you're right, people shouldn't get too worked up over the debates that go on here. It isn't life or death. Or even politics.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Well, being that I am not a Lexus customer, I would have to have a salesperson along with me on a test drive, and I find it hard to drive the vehicle the way I want with him/her beside me. Also, I am not interested in purchasing/leasing any vehicle at this time. I'm just really curious and am trying to make a list of potential future candidates. I don't want to mislead any salespeople and waste their time.
    In other words, no pressure at the Lexus Taste.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    ":makes sensedelaying AWD only"

    I don't know about this one Doc. With this car coming out in the dead smack middle of the NE winter, AWD would look more admirable to the potential buyer.

    But then again, the S550 was late also with AWD. And the sales never wavered one bit. So you may be one to something.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Burned you before? Well, if someone makes generalizing statement, it's only fair to question the assertion with the relevant details . . . hard numbers as they say . . . would you rather prefer someone who argues back with no facts citation? or engage you in a childish my assertion is more valid than your assertion game with zero factual support? If someone who obviously has no attention span for details or numbers, and yet claim to have a CFA, it's only fair to wonder aloud if the person even knows that the "A" in CFA does not stand for "accounting." I'm not the one tossing around outright lies, and I suffer nobody's fool.

    Hey Tagman,

    I had the great fortune of lurking here and noticed your discussion with brightness. I have not a clue how my name got involved here? :confuse:

    Unfortunately Brightness does not understand that a person like myself can have both an accountant's designation and a CFA designation at the same time. There are many Accountants with a CFA designation.

    The fact that Brightness expresses such a strong opinion about two professions in which he happens to be so misinformed about does not surprise me at all. Especially after reading his views on cars. ;)

    Anyways back to my vacation from Edmunds (need to catch up with the non-virtaul parts of my life). This time I am serious. Well at least I hope so. :surprise:
    Looking forward to future discussions with you and fellow forum members.

    Take Care

    Dewey
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