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Audi A4 2004 and earlier

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  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,565
    very nice! It is very strange to run into other people from Manhattan on a car site (especially since we live in a city where an automobile isn't necessary).

    I remember you mentioning (either here or on the A6 board) that you wouldn't buy a car in Manhattan because of the arrogance of the dealerships here. They do have a captive market after all. I've never bought a car here, (I usually get my cars either in Jersey or Rockalnd County where I'm from) but I have had one very pleasant service experience with Zumbach. I found their labor prices (and prices for service in general) very high ($120 per hour for labor), they definitely did me well. I have a 2000 Saab 9-3. Right around the 20,000 mile mark, I got off the FDR at 132 & Park Ave (I used to live on the east side), swerved around a cab and steered my car directly into the mother of all pot holes. I always service my car in Jersey, but didn't want to drive that far as my steering was off and the car was making weird clunking noises. I was given an appointment at Zumbach within 2 days for this problem and for the 20,000 mile service. The service rep was willing to work with me (I slipped him a $20) and covered a cracked strut, broken thrust bearing, and an alignment. I had to eat the cost of a new wheel and the 20,000 mile service (obviously). My car was ready as promised and they had the parts in STOCK.

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • I've been prejudiced against NYC dealers ever since I leased my first car at Potamkin many years ago. When I was shopping for my A6, I also compared MB, BMW. I didn't care for the C class MB at all (the weird speedometer reminded me of my dad's Olds 88 circa 1983). It was also expensive, slow and cheap feeling (I'm probably opening myself up for a barrage of "why.." "whaddya mean.." "how dare you.." but so be it-I can always ignore them). At BMW they were just....unfriendly. Period. Zumbach didn't return my calls. A salesman at Mohegan Lake Motors in Westchester did return my calls. He got the business - it was that simple. Mind you, none of the people I dealt with committed any egregious acts, but first impressions across the board were indicative of so many other NYC high-end purchase endeavors. That is to say, unless you're wielding bags of cash, they don't wanna know ya. I cannot judge Zumbach on service as I've not tried them yet - But thanks for sharing your experience. I will feel better having them service my car if ever I don't want to trek up to Mohegan Lake.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,565
    Potamkin...I've known to avoid them like the plague! That place is the poster child for all the bad that people say about car dealers!

    "That is to say, unless you're wielding bags of cash, they don't wanna know ya." Sad, but true!

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • From my own experience and others that I know. The Potamkin group should be avoided.
  • dl7265dl7265 Posts: 1,381
    just quoted me a $50.00 increase in the 2003 MY, in addition, the premium package is $1600.00 with moonroof, homelink and REAl leather, otherwise you get cloth, no more "ette".

    DL
  • lauk0dglauk0dg Posts: 563
    Actually that's not bad.....considering the leather on the 01.5 A4 2.8 was something like $1250.....so for $300 you get a moonroom and homelink. Of course that's assuming you want all 3.

    Billy
  • gfelkergfelker Posts: 26
    Hi all-great forum. Am in the market for a 1.8A4 w quattro--was looking at the 02's but now the 03's are arriving (I don't mind the odd looking trim as much as many others seem to!)

    Anyone had any experience with how far below MSRP (don't know the invoice pricing yet) these are going for? I assume as they are hot off the press they will be in demand and discounted very little from sticker? (I'm in North Carolina for what its worth). Would take a good deal on an 02 I guess but I like the real leather over the leatherette.
    Thanks in advance
    MDH
  • My dealer offered me $1000 below MSRP for a 2003, but not sure if this is such a good price. You should try carsdirect.com. Their prices are really good. Don't know about the service though, but I don't think trying it out has a lot of risk to it.

    Another question, I was looking into buying a 2003 A4 Quattro 3.0l 6 spd but now I saw at edmunds that at the end of 2003, an A4 coupe will eb available as a 2004 model. The coupe looks so much better! I am pretty sure now that I am going to wait for the coupe, even if it takes a year. I am just wondering, does anyone have any updated information on when the coupe will be available?
  • dl7265dl7265 Posts: 1,381
    I did not ask AOA about the coupe debut , not that they allways have the most updated info anyways. You might try vwvortex.com.

    Billy, yea i think its a cheap package. Strange the 3er went from fiberglass trim to aluminum and now the A4 is doing the reverse. I guess both suppliers will stay in business.

    DL
  • parker19parker19 Posts: 59
    dealer offered to sell me 2002 a-4 1.8 quattro, auto, sunroof, 16 inch wheels, bose, heated seats at 28,800 plus tax and tags which ... is this a good deal or because it is a year end model could i get it for less? keep in mind this model has more options than what i wanted and not the exact color though i am fine with this color but this is what they say is the closest they have to what i want
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,565
    what is the MSRP and what is the Dealer Invoice of the car?

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • parker19parker19 Posts: 59
    dealer offered to sell me 2002 a-4 1.8 quattro, auto, sunroof, 16 inch wheels, bose, heated seats at 28,800 plus tax and tags which ... is this a good deal or because it is a year end model could i get it for less? keep in mind this model has more options than what i wanted and not the exact color though i am fine with this color but this is what they say is the closest they have to what i want
  • parker19parker19 Posts: 59
    Invoice $28,761 MSRP $31,520
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 7,565
    So you're getting the car pr5etty much for invoice. Sounds like a good deal to me. Anybody else?

    2001 Honda Prelude Type SH/ 2011 BMW 328xi / 2011 Honda Pilot EX-L w/ Navigation

  • parker19parker19 Posts: 59
    Invoice $28,761 MSRP $31,520
  • dl7265dl7265 Posts: 1,381
    Sounds good , but if its not really what you want i wouldnt get it.You could order a 2003 with the exact color, options ect, maybe for more, but also have a 1 year newer car. thats a hard call . good luck with your choice.

    DL
  • If you are leasing, remember that an 03 will probably have a higher residual and perhaps a lower monthly payment. If you're buying IN CASH -- go for the 02 unless resale value is a big deal. If you are financing and your interest is more than 1.75% -- run away, don't look back and don't buy it.

    The thought about the 03 on order and getting exactly what you want has merit.
  • gfelkergfelker Posts: 26
    Having the same dilemma re the 02 vs. 03--I finally decided to go with the 03 for 2 reasons-- I could order it exactly how I liked, and 2, i liked the real leather available in the O3.

    Markcincinnati, 1.75% seems like an outlandishly low financing rate unless part of some special deal--is that available through Audi or something?
  • My point was that it is better to pay cash than finance and if you can't pay cash it often makes the most sense to lease. It gets attractive to finance only if the rate of interest is the then current fed rate which at this moment is 1.75%(or less). I realize that a lot of us do not pay cash for cars -- but the leasing alternative works pretty well unless you drive well in excess of 15,000 miles per year. Audis at 0% would be pretty interesting don't you think?

    With the lease you can pay for the use of the car, not the ownership -- and when the lease is coming near term, if you really like the car you can then buy it and theoretically at least know what you are buying.

    The problem with these high buck European cars is that they depreciate so fast and cost so much to repair out of warranty. It might be cheaper to live with them and not marry them -- to underscore the point.

    Also if you make the full payment for the car as if it was financed, it is possible to actually come out ahead (the current state of the economy notwithstanding).

    MSRP $30,000:

    Lease the car for 36 months $524 a month
    Buy the car for 36 months $885 a month

    Difference $361 x 36 = $12,996
    Residual 45% = $13,500

    The difference is close if you assume that the $12,996 was put under your pillow.

    If you invested $361 a month for 36 months and you could get any "appreciation" at all, you would at the end of 36 months have more than $13,500 in cash or its equivalent and every day it would still grow. If you bought the car it would be worth less every day and be more difficult to convert to cash -- and if you loved the 36 month old car you could probably buy it for $13,500 (which you would "have in the bank") and pocket the amount you had gained in appreciation (even in a money market fund at today's paltry rates, you would still come out ahead -- only those who pay cash will beat this scenario -- generally speaking).
  • cennis1cennis1 Posts: 25
    Yeah, except that I've never heard of a 45% residual after 3 years. Is that example based on a Yugo. I think 60% would be more accurate.
  • mbnut1mbnut1 Posts: 403
    I tend to agree 45% sounds pretty low.
  • dl7265dl7265 Posts: 1,381
    I could have leased my 3er for some 500-600 per month. instead i purchased at 6%. the return is the current residual if you will is 75%!! based on my last offer.So it brakes down to about $200 a month to purchase.Big difference in my case.

    DL
  • regfootballregfootball Posts: 2,166
    current ads with 2k down suggest you can lease a 2k2 a4 1.8q for 325 or so a month
  • Are you saying then that leasing would be preferable?

    And, BTW, I took the numbers in my made up example from Audis web site -- the spirit, if not the actual example, was the point of view I was portraying.

    And the best residual TODAY on a new A4 @ 36 months is:

    A4 residual 51% 3.0
    A4 residual 55% 1.8T

    BTW, putting any money down on the lease defeats the purpose of leasing. If you put the money that you would put down on the car into an investment, then added to it the differential between the cost of the lease per month and the cost to finance per month, and used 51% as the residual, the numbers IMHO, still favor leasing over buying, but not over paying cash.

    Buying a [Audi] car "on time" -- and you can't buy an Audi at 0% -- is a "false economy," generally. As they say, why buy the cow when all you want is the milk?

    Finally, the best way to buy or lease or acquire or "drive" the car -- is the way YOU think is the best not what someone else (like me) thinks has merit. I have purchased one Audi a 1987 5000CS turbo quattro -- in cash. All the others I have leased -- my basis for doing so was/is a boss I once had (he was a CPA) who said rent what depreciates, buy what appreciates. My current CPA, who works for me, says the same thing.

    To each his/her own.
  • cmnottcmnott Posts: 200
    Just lurking in here and thought I would throw in my 2 cents on leasing. It really doesn't matter if you put money down or not because in the end you always pay the same. I have checked on this for a few cars and i would only aqdvise putting money down if there might be a chance of buying it.

    Right now I can get a 2002 Explorer EB for 0.9% lease, that is an incredible deal. on the swing side, the residual is only 35% so you still have to make up the difference. that residual also ensures a hell of a deal if the EB is good to me!
  • cennis1cennis1 Posts: 25
    The lease vs. buy debate has been had way too many times to have it again. I'm not saying that either is "better." It will always be a matter of personal preference and needs that determines what is better for whom. My opinion is that if all the terms are reasonable, the rest is just math and will be a reasonably good deal regardless of which way you go. It will always involve some estimation on future values of cars, interest rates, etc. so saying one is better seems a little silly to me. I have bought 3 new cars, one was lease, two were paid for in cash.

    For a number of reasons I am currently considering leasing a new A4. I was at the dealer in San Francisco last Saturday and they quoted me a 3 yr residual of 58% on a 2002 A4 1.8tq 5-speed, so I would have to say that 55% is not the best residual as of today (unless they have changed in the last 5 days, may have).

    Then again, the "best" residual in lowering your monthly payments is the "worst" residual if you for whatever reason want or need to buy the car at the end (which I personally think is usually a silly thing to do).

    Of course, this is all just my personal opinion. As you said, to each his own.
  • While I was typing my prior post, I was on the phone with the Audi dealer who gave me the residual "as of today." He also said that the residual is different for every car in the line, even the 2 A4 Sedans are not the same -- I suspect since he said sedans, that the avants might have different residuals. Also, I thought he said that the lease terms change regularly and frequently -- and I did not ask if that meant daily, weekly, monthly, etc.

    Also I agree with your post in that "better" is in the eye of the beholder.
  • manufacturers EVER offered 0% financing or anything close?
  • greggsa4greggsa4 Posts: 24
    Due to excessive repair bills incurred during my aforementioned ownership of an A4, I can no longer afford the electricity to run my computer. I was hoping Audi would change their minds and offset my costly repairs but my phone was disconnected due to delinquency of payment. I hope other Audi owners have better luck and do not end up in the financial situation I am in. Sarcastically bitter in Pittsburgh greggsA4
  • greggsa4greggsa4 Posts: 24
    I know I said it before but....AUDI WAS THE WORST CAR I'VE EVER OWNED
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