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Audi A4 2004 and earlier

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  • anyone have suggestions? pros and cons of turbo timers?

    I don't even have the car yet, and already I'm adding accessories!
  • scirocco22scirocco22 Posts: 721
    mmcbride1-- from what you described in post #748, that's exactly what I have (no sports pkg., right?). bought it about a month ago in the state of Washington for $28,425. but as I have said in previous posts, we have the highest A4 prices in the country. glad you can get it for those kind of prices; I sure wish I could have :(


    bast2-- yeah, if you have read my previous posts, here in Seattle we have only 2 Audi dealers and they both were quite arrogant in their attitude and pricing structure. I had to go to a small town almost 100 miles away to get a "decent" deal and to be treated like my business was appreciated.


    mulifat-- I tried to make my deal the last day of February and one of the dealers here in the Seattle area told me that I was getting a good deal at 7%+ over invoice (almost $2,000 over) so I "walked"--I never was called back. I guess that shows you how much in demand the car is/was in this area.


    goonies-- My salesman also told me that about the 1.8t in the A4 having 180hp although being only rated at 170hp. He said that he wasn't supposed to tell me that...lol. If you go to the "2001 Audi A4 1.8t Pricing" forum here on Edmunds, you can read the posts that mmcbride1 was involved in that have to do with this topic (post #156 thru #170). If you haven't already seen these sites, for pics of the 2002 go to http://www.audiworld.com/news/01/geneva/highlights3.shtml and for info about the 2002 go to http://www.audi-a4.com/audi_a4.html


    lauk0dg-- let me know what suspension or wheel and tire mods you are considering. I don't know yet what changes I want to do if anything. Yeah, i guess I know what you mean by the chipping forums on Audiworld. I see that you have a nice forum on your local club website (Lakes Quattro Club). Can you ask about chipping there? Just taking a quick look at the forum, I didn't see your name on any of the posts. Are you using the same name on that forum? And yeah, it would sure be nice to go to your club's gathering--it would be a nice trip to break in the car! lol but no, I can't make the trip to Chicago as I have no extra vacation time to spare right now.


    schwitzer1-- lol! well, from what I understand, turbo timers are only needed when chipping above 1bar and are definitely not needed on a stock engine because the 1.8t in its stock form uses a very low pressure turbo. But I'm no expert. Go to the Audiworld site for more info. good luck!

  • mmcbride1mmcbride1 Posts: 861
    Well, that's what I hope to get, but based on music man's deal, it should be do-able. I kind of want the sports package, but not enough to go right out and buy snow tires/rims. I'll just take the all-seasons. Also, our roads are so bad here in Denver that I think I might be bending rims with 17 inchers on there. I'll take the stock 16's.
  • scirocco22scirocco22 Posts: 721
    you mean stock 15's :(

    *waaah*
  • mmcbride1mmcbride1 Posts: 861
    I thought that just changed (I could be wrong, though). I thought I remembered reading somewhere that the sport wheels were now 17's and the standard 16's...Like I said, I could be wrong. I'd rather have 16's over 15's, but I'd rather have 15's over 17's.
  • scirocco22scirocco22 Posts: 721
    I haven't heard about that but I hope you're right! I agree, 16" would be my preference also. The 2.8's come with 16" and I read where the 2002's will have standard 16's also. I guess when you consider that 15 years ago cars of this size would have had 13" then I guess 15's don't sound too bad! :p
  • scirocco22scirocco22 Posts: 721
    Just remembered reading this article about the interior of the new 2002. Sounds like headroom will improve but rear seat leg room will evidently stay the same :(


    http://www.audiworld.com/news/01/geneva/highlights2.shtml

  • lauk0dglauk0dg Posts: 563
    Rims: The standard sports rim is 17" for the 2001.5 1.8T and the standard sports rim is 16" for the 2001.0 1.8T. The standard rim for both 2001.5 and 2001.0 1.8T is still 15" (confusing enough, guys??) and I am dying for the 16" rim and tires too. I think I'd shop for some 16" rims (preferably some guy who has the OEM 16" sports rims but getting rid of them for some 17") but wrap them with all-season radials. Again I just don't want to buy an extra set of snow tires for half of the year.


    Yeah those rubber around the 17" sport rims are of 45 profile and I wouldn't dare to drive them in half of the roads here in Chicago. Don't want to get them warped and get me crying.


    Prices: MMM.....well here in Chicago I bought my 1.8T last day of Feb at 3% over invoice. Of course cost of living and demand/supply is different in all parts of the USA, you could well start from there. The several things my dealer pointed out in order to get a good deal was, buy at the last day of the month, get the 5-speed instead of Tiptronic (he said more people likes Tiptronic instead of the 5-speed with the 1.8T, something that I can't totally agree), and of course get the cars that are already on the lot. My 1.8T is 5-speed, has Quattro Celebration pkg, Bose and Cold Weather pkg. MSRP is $29,040, got my deal at $26,700, and the invoice is around $26,000.


    Rear legroom: Yup I read the same thing as you, scirocco. The car is bigger on the outside (like by an inch), but rear legroom won't improve, or maybe a few millimeters. Yeah I agree, as my coworker has an A4 2.8, that the only complaints we have is the small rear legroom. That maybe the only thing a Passat is better than an A4.


    Bast2, I almost had a similar "adventure" as you when I walked into one of the Chicagoland's 7 Audi dealerships. Well one guy actually greeted me and took me out to the cars, but he's very impatient when he heard me saying "I'm still considering all the alternatives.". Eventually he handed me over to my salesman and he's a whole lot better. Other people also had bad experiences with the dealership I bought it at, so I guess it all depends on the specific salespeople you get when you walk in. Of course you can try other dealerships but then to me, if I could get a great deal, I don't care which one I buy it from. Afterall I can bring my car for service somewhere. I just need to face the bad dealership once, but I service my vehicle for at least a few years :>


    Hey Scirocco, there's a similar Audi club in Seattle.....go to http://seattle.audiworld.com. I can't wait till that Spring Drive :>

  • bast2bast2 Posts: 52
    Scirocco22, curious about your pricing. What did your car include?

    As I mentioned earlier, the A4 1.8T Quattro I was looking at included celebration, cold weather and ESP (I think). What I failed to include was the fact that it also had Tiptronic. Sticker was $30,700, quote given was $1600 over invoice ($29,300). Mulifat mentioned I should be able to get in the car for $27,500, but I'm assuming that price was for manual, not automatic.

    Unfortunately, there's only 2 Audi dealers here in WI that I'm aware of. Of course, I'm in Milwaukee, so the trip to Chicago wouldn't be completely out of the question if it turned out to be worth my time. Any suggestions for best bets in the Chicago area? And, is it possible to e-mail for a quote?

    LaukOdg: glad to hear I'm not alone in my experience. Again, it WAS a Saturday, perhaps that made a difference, though, I don't see why it should. I guess I'll try the dealer to the north (the metropolous of Sheboygan, WI) and see what they have to say.

    Also...disappointing to hear about the lack of room in the back seat for the 2002.

    JB
  • mmcbride1mmcbride1 Posts: 861
    Thanks for clearing that up. I may go to 16's at some point, too. But I'll have all-seasons on them as well. Hmmm...maybe the dealer will do it for me right from the get go.
  • cc12359cc12359 Posts: 31
    If there is no snow in LA, $200 to upgrade from 16-17 inch, I should go 17 for sure rather than 16, correct?
  • scirocco22scirocco22 Posts: 721
    JB-- I have the 1.8t Quattro, 5-speed, silver metallic, onyx leatherette, Cold Weather pkg, Bose, ESP, and Xenon; no sports pkg. MSRP = $30,115. Invoice = $27,025. I received $1,400 over invoice for $28,425 --a relatively "good" deal here in this area last month but again, according to my research, we have the highest A4 prices in the country. From what I've been reading on the Edmund's message boards, you should be able to do up to $1,000 better than what I paid. I've configured your car on the Edmunds calculator and this is what I've come up with: If the car you looked at had a MSRP of $30,700 then this is how it must be configured according to your description: 1.8t, TIP (automatic tranny) metallic paint, Quattro Celebration pkg, Cold Weather pkg, ESP and it must have had the Bose pkg... this will total up to a MSRP of $30,715 with an invoice of $27,657 and an Edmunds TMV of $29,277. Since I've heard that some people in the mid-west are getting A4's for as little as $400 over invoice, then you'd be getting a great deal if you could get the car for $28,057 ($27,657 + $400). The deal that you mentioned at $1,600 over invoice, comes in right around Edmunds TMV which is the "average" price that most people are paying so it isn't a bad deal but seeing what others here are posting then you should be able to do much better than TMV. Even if you could get it for what lauk0dg got (3% over invoice) then that would bring it to $28,487 ($27,657 + $830)<$830 being %3 of 27,657>. So to sum it up, anywhere from $28,000 to $28,500 would sound like a very good deal on a car with a MSRP of $30,715 and if you can get that car for less than $28,000 then it would be an "excellent" deal!! And sure, try e-mailing an offer to several dealers at say $27,800 and see what happens. They'll make some sort of a counter offer because I doubt that they'll sell you the car at that price (well, you never know, lol) but at least you'll have a starting point for further negotiations with other dealers. I did a lot of corresponding by e-mail when I was in the negotiation process. Just be sure to list the exact configuration of the car. Or you can try www.priceline.com --I found their service after I had already bought my car but I would have tried it if I had found it earlier. Good luck and let us know how you do!
  • The experience with my dealer was actually pretty positive. They were definitely laid back, let me take my time, etc. I didn't interpret that as arrogance. I was used to the "in your face as soon as you park your car" attitude of my local Honda dealer.

    That said, I had the same deal haggling that I had with Honda, just with more polished salespeople.

    mmcbride-

    BTW, if you are considering Prestige Imports in Lakewood, be aware that you need to schedule your regular maintenance at least ONE MONTH in advance. They are that backed up that far. Their sales force is very pleasant, though.

    If you are still test driving, consider going to McDonald for that. They allowed me to take the A4 home for the night and drive it to work the next day. Stunned me, actually.
  • scirocco22scirocco22 Posts: 721
    Billy-- thanx for the link to the Seattle Audi club site... their message board is nowhere near as sophisticated and lively as yours there at Lakes. :(

    Mike-- I think that would be an excellent negotiating item... when the dealer won't budge any further on price then "throw in the 16" rims and it's a deal... I'll buy the car from you today" Although they'll probably have to have in stock some "take-offs" from another buyer that up-graded to better rims and tires for it to work because they definitely won't order them for you--that would cost them too much. ...just a thought,lol.

    cc12359-- no, it's not a matter of a choice now. The 17" rims are what you will get now if you order the sports pkg. The older model 2001's are the only ones with the 16" rims. The old sports pkg was msrp'd at $750 and the new one on the 2001.5 models with the 17's is priced at $950. Now this is for the Quattro. I believe the fwd model still has the sport pkg with 16" rims. In the LA area, I guess you guys have a lot of fwd cars to choose from. Up here they don't even ship them without Quattro unless you special order it from the factory.

    Matt-- did you say that you have xenons? I can't remember.
  • mmcbride1mmcbride1 Posts: 861
    What made you buy from Prestige instead of McDonald? It seems you went to both.
  • mmcbride1mmcbride1 Posts: 861
    Would the 16's throw off the speedo or do anything negative to the handling? Anyone know?
  • scirocco22scirocco22 Posts: 721
    Mike-- 16's would enhance handling slightly, I'm guessing. As for speedo error, I used the tire calculator on the Miata site to come up with an error of 0.7814992025518263% (too slow) which is quite insignificant IMO. I used the stock 205/60x15 compared to the upgraded "old" sports pkg tire size of 205/55x16. To use the calculator, go to:

    http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html"
  • scirocco22scirocco22 Posts: 721
    16's will be slightly lower profile tires (55 as opposed to 60) so the handling will be slightly better but the trade off would be slightly poorer ride quality and maybe the tendency to "wander" a little more. But I don't think you could feel those negative characteristics enough to make a difference. (IMHO only! lol)
  • lauk0dglauk0dg Posts: 563
    wow scirocco, that's a good tool in that Miata website.....I've been working on those inch-millimeter conversions these past few days and that site really helps.

    Yeah that won't be a bad idea to get the dealer to put on 16" rims if they won't go down any further. But again they need to get all-season radials on those rims and yup if they need to special order them, they won't do that for free. Yeah I just don't understand why Audi won't put 16" on the A4 as standard alloys and all of a sudden slap some 17" to the sports pkg. Maybe they will do that in 2002 models???

    bast2, I went to school up there in Madison, WI and there's the Zimbrick dealership there that also sells Audi although I know they won't go down significantly on prices but it will worth a check. For Chicagoland's Audi dealerships, I got mine at Schaumburg Audi, ask for Mike Burden if you do go there. I have also heard good comments for Continental Audi in Aurora, and I have visited there and they were very professional and friendly, but they won't cut me a deal as good as Schaumburg Audi.
  • kdabbeykdabbey Posts: 9
    What's the big deal about getting snow tires? 17" snow tires will handle better than 16" all season tires plus you can have the performance tires for better handling during the summer
  • scirocco22scirocco22 Posts: 721
    hmmmm, Kyle has a good point, Billy, I know that's what a lot of people on the AW site do. We don't get enough snow here for me to justify it (welllll, maybe I'd consider it, hmmmm... I don't know yet) although I do have studded snow tires on rims for my 4runner (I don't like running with studs but man, is that 4runner squirrly in the ice!) ... but in Chicago???--don't you guys have massive amounts of snow and ice? I sure think you'd want to have two sets of tires in Chicagoland!
  • mmcbride1mmcbride1 Posts: 861
    Who did you deal with over at Prestige? Also, what was the MSRP on your car?
  • skobolaskobola Posts: 207
    I am thinking about getting back with Audi because I believe that I can get it for less than my BMW 323i, as well as the new A4's body looks pretty cool. I have already had a A4 1.8T, but I certainly was not happy with the performance - that's because turbo did NOT do much in a hot Miami climate. I guess that intercoler or something like that may have improved the turbo, but that was not present in 1998 model that I had. Has Audi done anything to improve the turbo performance in hot climate? Or could anything else be done to improve that... however, unobtrusively, because I would lease the car. Thanks.
  • lauk0dglauk0dg Posts: 563
    1. Have Quattro and that's the reason why I don't need snow tires. I won't drive fast when snow/ice is on the ground anyway. So Quattro will help me get away from a start without spinning.
    2. Don't want to pay extra for snow tires
    3. Don't want to pay extra for storage (I rent)
    4. Don't want to pay extra for new snow tires (cuz they run out of tread pretty easily)

    We got snow in Chicago but I'd say less than 1% of the people got snow tires. You are out of the game when there's ice on the ground anyways.
  • pjonkheerpjonkheer Posts: 22
    Does anyone have any idea what pricing is going to be like for the 2002 A4?? I am seriously considering a 2002 3.0 without quattro.

    Thank You.
  • scirocco22scirocco22 Posts: 721
    but just think how great the car will handle with summer performance tires ;)

    and less than 1%?? you're kidding! with Chicago's brutal winters, I'd suspect that it would be more than that!
  • kdabbeykdabbey Posts: 9
    You just bought a phat new ride, how much are snow tires in comparison? $120 each at most? Don't be cheap--it will be worth it if they save your butt from an accident in the snow.
  • Hi,
    Can anyone help me find a dealership out west that sells A4's with out quattro. It's frusterating I like the A4 but have had a horrible time with the salesmen in Oregon. They don't carry the front wheel drive version of the A4 and have even told me its a bad idea to buy the fwd A4 because it doesnt hold its resale value. Can anyone confirm or deny this claim? If anyone knows of a dealership within a few states of Oregon that sells fwd A4 I would really appreciate. Thanks
  • scirocco22scirocco22 Posts: 721
    Adam-- I'm in the Seattle area and just recently bought a 1.8t Quattro. The dealers I contacted before buying my car all told me the same thing and cited the same reason you gave about resale value. They told me that only Quattros are shipped to the northwest and to get a fwd A4, in either the 1.8t or 2.8, you have to factory order it. But after doing a lot of research, talking to people in the know and reading the message boards at http://www.audiworld.com, I was sold on Quattro. Quattro greatly improves handling characteristics not to mention the added traction on roads that are wet or covered in snow or ice. I also did some research on the depreciation rates here in the northwest of fwd vs. Quattro and found that it is apparently true that fwd A4's depreciated more rapidly than Quattro (although I had a very hard time finding a used A4 without Quattro in the Seattle area). IMO, the extra $1,750 (I believe that what it is for the 1.8t; I think it's even less for the 2.8--I want to say $650 but I'll have to look it up) is more than worth it considering the enhanced resale value; let alone the better traction in the winter and the fun factor as it relates to handling. As I've heard and read several times: "What's the use of buying an Audi if it doesn't have Quattro?!" For more information, you can go to the Audiworld web site and peruse the current and archived message boards on the subject. If you still aren't sold on Quattro, I'm sure that if you go back to your local dealer and insist you want to order a fwd, they'd be glad to accommodate your request but I'd guess that you wouldn't get much of a price break. And why would you consider going out of state to buy a car?--Oregon doesn't have a sales tax, right?? As lauk0dg and I have discussed on previous posts, we should all come to Oregon to buy a car!! lol You'll be buying the same car for more than $2,500 less than what I paid in Washington! ...and that's just considering the tax savings (even more on a 2.8!!). You also have lower A4 prices in Oregon than we do here in Washington. :( Good luck and let us know what you do.
  • JBaumgartJBaumgart Posts: 890
    I disagree with lauk0dg's contention about snow tires not being much help on ice and with braking on slippery surfaces. This and cornering on ice/snow is in fact where they help the most. I've been running dedicated winter tires on my A4 quattro sport for the past three winters here in Minnesota, and they make the car MUCH SAFER! I've tried running the stock performance tires (Dunlop 8000E's) and they are downright dangerous on ice. An all-season tread would be better but the handling in the summer would suffer big-time compared to any quality high performance tire. It would make the car a lot less fun to drive (for me at least) when the roads are dry.

    P.S. Car & Driver did extensive tests on this a while back and found that using dedicated winter tires make more of an improvement than four or all wheel drive by themselves. This is my experience too as I used to run Pirelli snow tires on a front drive car (Tauras SHO) with very good results - much better traction than the A4 quattro with the summer Dunlops. Of course the combination of snow tires and all wheel drive is the best and safest.
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