Audi A4 2004 and earlier

wmquan

Plus the top-rated family sedan that CR has recommended for two years running has NOT been the Camry, but the Passat! While the Camry beats the Passat (especially the 6-cylinder) in CR's reliability ratings, that doesn't stop CR from recommending the Passat because of its other merits over the Camry.

CR also loves the MB E-class as well.

I read CR's review of the A4 and I thought it was quite fair. They were actually quite positive about it. They praised the vehicle's performance in the emergency handling test, and its fit and finish, for example. As well they should have!

Their two main negatives was the quality of the low-speed ride, and that the rear seat is cramped. They noted the A4's excellent array of safety features.

I don't expect CR to come out and speak in lavish car-loving tones like the automobile mags do. Since such perceptions are so subjective in the first place, I just look to them for some base objective observations, then look toward others and my own opinions.

I think the reason they didn't give the A4 a checkmark is because the vehicle is new and a reliability history hasn't been established. Yes, the Camry is also new but CR does tend to base its initial estimate on the previous generation, especially if the previous generation was similar.

I suppose they could have based the 2002 A4's initial score on the previous-gen A4, but that would have been awful since the previous edition never did do too well in CR's surveys. One could argue that they could have used Passat numbers as a base but I'm not sure if that makes sense either. I'd rather they give the new A4 the benefit of the doubt and wait for real numbers to come in.

silvernubira

I guess you all said it right; as long as one considers cars as devices to be used for travel from point A to point B, CR reviews are fine. And in that case CR would not even need a separate car division. Today technicians would test toasters, tomorrow cars, next day frozen dinners. However, it is not as simple as that. At least to me. I guess, once again, you are right; CR's audience, in general, have no interest in cars as cars, but only as devices (appliances?) that take them from A to B, and a Camry is perfect for this purpose. I was really surprized when they rated Passat over Camry. However, if you read carefully, you notice that they always state that the difference between two is slight in term of overall ratings.

I guess many CR readers also agree with some statements from their most recent issue (March 2002). I do not have my copy with me now, but it goes something like this. According to CR, if you need a car (similar in size to those tested, I guess) what you need to get is either Passat or Camry. Currently tested cars (Lexus ES, Audi A4, etc.) are basically same thing and one does not need to pay 1000s dollars extra for these cars.(So far I have no problem with what they state, even though I do not agree.) And at the right upper corner of the page, they refer to the previosly tested cars, they say that BMW 330i and one other car (I cannot recall it now) "scored almost as high as Passat and Camry."

Well, I rest my case. If they are ignorant enough to compare BMW E46 (I drive one currently) and Camry (I owned one, unfortunately), and if they think Camry is the better one, tiger8 you are totaly, completely and 100% correct, I shouldn't be reading CR's auto reviews since I am a car buff (enthusiast?) as you correctly predicted (however, I am not single, I have kids and I am not young-I have been driving since 1966). And I don't race cars, I have no interest in skid pad numbers and so on......

I guess this concludes the discussion. You all have a good one!!

10k_oregon

I was wondering who in the Portland Oregon area has bought one recently and what kind of deal I can expect from the dealers locally or should I go somewhere outside the local area?

a4_4vince

Hi, I live in Portland also and took delivery of a 1.8T from Sunset Imports last week. They are the only game in town so they are not backing off much from MSRPs. I was able to get 800 under, which is not a very good deal. I went to priceline.com but got no return from the Washington dealers. If you don't need the car now, you might want to check out the dealers up at Washington. Some of the folks on this board are actually from Washington. They might be able to give you some insights. Good luck the rest of the way.

vince...8o)

scirocco22

Corey-- Tried to reply to your email a couple of times but I think they bounced back.

--'rocco

10k_oregon

Thanks Vince. I am going to Sunset on Saturday to test drive one and see if the wife does like it enough to get rid of the Durango she has. I have talked to some dealers in Washington and CA and have some telling me about 5-7% about invoice is about right since these cars don't have alot of mark-up on them. So I will have to let you know how Sunset does on Saturday.

scirocco22

Although Consumer Reports have praised Audis in the past as Paul and William have stated, their latest tests on both the A4 and the A6 resulted in their not recommending either car.

I suspect its over reliability issues.:(

--'rocco

dougmg

I have a 99 A4Q with 16K I bought 2 weeks ago. The car drifts to the right. I have had the tires rotated front to back and then from right to left, neither helped. The tire pressure is fine. Yesterday I had a good alignment shop align it and it still drifts. They reported that mechanically it is fine and there is no evidence of any accident. Any thoughts?

pat

A major newspaper is looking to interview folks who learned how to drive stick in their adulthood, and either fell in love or hated it. Also welcome is any input on why people love to drive stick, and any unusual anecdotes about how you learned etc.

Hope to hear from you before Feb 22 via the Talk to the Press discussion or at jfallon@edmunds.com with your thoughts and contact information.

Thanks as always,

Jeannine Fallon
PR Director, Edmunds.com

markcincinnati

Why did you have a "good alignment shop" do the work? With 16K miles on it, it should be eligible for the Audi Advantage full four wheel alignment -- my experience is that most alignment shops align the front end and not all four wheels.

Perhaps all Audi dealers are not created equal, but my experience in Cincinnati is that the dealer does a very good job aligning them.

And on that note, perhaps we are quite fortunate to have Northland Audi (which is really Northland Porsche + Audi) -- they seem to treat all cars as if their owners had "Porsche" expecations.

The only other thing your e-mail didn't address was the "bent" factor - bent wheel (ever so slightly?) or bent "tie rod ends" or some other component being bent. My friend's Audi hit a snow covered curb and the car developed the same symptoms you describe. It took a couple of parts and a four wheel alignment to right it.

andietigger

I am looking at a new A4 1.8 MT and a new Acura TL-S. I cannot afford the A4 3.0 and have concerns with the 4 cylinder. I promised myself my current 4 would be my last. How do you guy/girls who own a 1.8T feel about the power and torque of this engine? There are 90 more horses in the Acura. Additional concerns are the rear seat space(including a child seat) and the lack of power sheets & steering wheel radio controls in the 1.8T. The A4 is a beautiful machine and wins the sheetmetal contest hands down. Your thoughts and comments would be appreciated. Thanks for your time!

Tom

audibon

I agree with markcincy as I bought a used 94 Accord in 97 that was in outstanding condition. Yet, when changing out the rubber on all 4 rims the shop found one rim that was bent and really not much they could do about it. Didn't want the hassle of having to ship it out and have it repaired so just bought a new OEM rim from Honda and was done with it. Under the Audi warranty I would have a 4 wheel alignment done and have the tires dismounted from the rims to see if anything is inside then remounted and computer balanced. If there is a bent rim and you are pressed for cash you can get by with it on the rear but I wouldn't leave it that way for too long. Also, as Mark said there may be a bent suspension component causing it. Has the car been in an accident? If it has, then the unibody may be bent which is a hassle to straighten as special equipment is required to do the job. Good luck and let us know what you find out!
Brian

btr1

I recently got a A41.8TQuattro Auto (paid $30k total inc. tax) ....while it only has 400miles so far, I have noticed that it is a little more sluggish than I expected (although I haven't really pushed it). I wanted AWD, so logical choice (VW Passat has it, but rear seat doesn't fold - but it is a good choice otherwise). Power seats, who changes their seat position that often? Acura does have a lot standard, and I'm sure quality is good. For me, rear seat space no that big a deal....a kids seat should be fine, and s/he will fit easily in back of A4 till they're 18. Not sure if Acura has 4yr regular maintenance - nice plus on Audi, especially if you're lazy or don't know cars. Overall I'm happy, waiting for the snow so I can see what she can do. Good Luck.

wmquan

Fear not. I firmly believe that if and when Audi A4 survey numbers come back with at least "average" reliability, that CR will then recommend the vehicle.

The A4 outscored the TL-S and I35 and CR recommended both. CR will recommend any high-scoring vehicle with at least average reliability and without any major failures in some tests (e.g. emergency handling has to be at least "below average" from what I've seen).

While the sample they tested had problems, I think if the survey results come back positive then they'll ignore the sample issues. They didn't base the 2002 A4's reliability on the previous generation as they sometimes do.

wmquan

Does the A4 have pretensioners for the rear seat belts? The Audi website indicates that the front belts have the pretensioners and force limiters, but it only says that the rear belts have adjustable retractors.

It'd be strange if the A4 didn't have them, as it has a great variety of other safety equipment. Plus the Passat supposedly has pretensioners for all seating positions -- even the middle rear position, which is unusual.

wmquan

Both the A4 and TL-S are excellent vehicles. But they do have some marked differences.

The Acura has a lot of nice power. Straight-line acceleration is exhilarating and you can't say that with the A4 1.8T. Statistical reliability should be excellent, the A4 will probably be average or above average (just a guess). Rear seat room is quite good. Some more convenience features than the A4. While the leather isn't the best, the leather trim is real leather (though the A4's leatherette is reputed to be very good).

But for roughly the same price as the TL-S, you could buy a manual transmission quattro that offers Audi's excellent AWD system, giving you more capability and security in wet or snowy weather. The Audi will offer better safety features that the Acura doesn't have, such as side curtain airbags and optional rear side airbags (the 2003 TL-S does NOT offer any kind of head protection; I think Acura is waiting for an early MY2004 release that will be built on the 2003 Accord that may have head protection). The Audi's emergency handling will be better, as evidenced in Consumer Reports' testing where the Acura, with a heavy front-end weight bias, was harder to control at the limit, with some fishtailing. The Audi will include four years of scheduled maintenance while the Acura does not come with scheduled maintenance.

It comes down to your priorities, in weighing incremental safety differences, features, power, and handling. Good luck!

eludwig

I'm considering an A4 and would love to hear opinions on the performance of the auto versus manual. I'm used to Honda manuals, and I'm concerned I might be disappointed with the Audi's manual transmission. Not that you can find a manual A4 in the Seattle area anyway...

If any folks are in the Seattle area, I would also be interested in experiences with dealers. What are people paying for their A4's? As an aside, it seems Seattle dealers stock many A4 Quattro 1.8T's with the Tiptronic, 16" wheels, heated seats, leatherette, ski sack, and sunroof.

Finally, any thoughts on the classiest color combinations? For some reason I really like Dolphin Grey with Platinum (I'm sick of Silver with Black).

Thanks!

nschulman3

I am on my second audi and really love their cars. However, I am in a quandary. I was all set to lease a 2002 A4 1.8 Quattro (this would be my 2nd a4) with sport package. Here's my problem. I looked at a few other cars this weekend. The new Caddy cts (not happy with the quality or dealers), a TL-type S (great power, but felt like an old man's car), and the Lexus IS-300. The lexus handled great, was comfortable and great fun to drive. It also offers some things i can't get on the audi 1.8 such as leather, power seats and an in-line 6. The a4 is great for a 4 cylinder, but the 6 felt much smoother and i don't want to chip the audi (did it before). Also, the ride, even with the 17' tires and rims was fine. Now before anyone tells me how great all-wheel drive is, let me explain. I live in northern New Jersey where we get very little snow. In addition, my other car is a subaru impreza wrx 5 speed. It almost seems like overkill to own 2 all wheel drive cars where i live. If i could afford a 3.0 quattro, i'd do it, but for the same money as a a4 1.8, doesn't it seem logical to get the lexus. After all, it is rear wheel drive which is great fun most of the time. Any thoughts?

byronwalter

...I'm sure that this has been discussed before but the 1.8t engine performs poorly with the AT. That torque converter just sucks down too much energy. That said, it is reported (and confirmed by me) that the manual 5 sp is somewhat notchy at first. I presently have a '99 1.8t Avant and, after a couple thousand miles, the manual shifted fine. Just don't expect Honda-like shifting. I'm leaning towards another 1.8t Avant but also thinking about that odd-looking WRX. The WRX may have some warts but, boy does she know how to dance. What I'm trying to decide is how I will feel about the WRX when I wake up in the morning...

...hey, NSchulman3... if you had to dump either the A4 or the WRX... which one would you keep?

Byron

markcincinnati

The title was a trick title, there are no choices for a 1.8T quattro -- manual transmission is the only choice if one of your criteria is performance. While the tip is a very good transmission, it genuinely cuts the performance of the A4 1.8T quattro noticably. On the other hand, automatics can sometimes mask even the relatively small amount of turbo lag that comes with the turbo territory these days (and the 1.8T does not have huge lag).

So you've got choices -- what ever benefit the auto has (and frankly since I have one, I can tell you there are no benefits whatsoever to the auto trans, IMHO): lower performance, lower gas milage, less work on the driver's part, less fun and convenience; versus the manual transmission which offers higher performance, better gas mileage (theoretically since you are likely to drive less economically with the stick), more work, more fun and less convenience.

Choices are good -- and nothing I have said as either fact or opinion is meant to criticize anyone who has made the automatic decision (or the manual decision for that matter.) It is just that the 1.8T engine performs "better" (by most definitions) with a manual transmission.

Now onto the issue of "after 400 miles. . ." Audi engines, at least all Audi gasoline engines "open up" at approximately 5,000 miles and again at 10,000 miles. I can think of no reason that the tip in and of itself will change these intervals. Relax, the A4 1.8T quattro with either transmission is an excellent car -- I happen to believe, however, that it is more so with the manual transmission.

How I long for one myself -- whenever I get the chance to drive my wife's TT with that sweeet 1.8T 225HP engine and 6spd manual, well I just turn green with envy knowing that I have to get back into my old man's car -- an A6 with a tiptronic. Even the 300HP V8 can't negate the life sucking power of the tiptronic (for my tastes, that is).

Your milage may vary.

lauk0dg

Well before buying my 2001.5 A4 1.8T I also told myself my ex-Accord would be my last 4 cylinder vehicle. I test drove the BMW 325ci (so-so with the 2.5L inline-6 engine power, no doubt will go to the 330ci if I got $$). Keep in mind the IS300 at that time only has automatic and I don't like the interior of it. Then the test drive of the A4 1.8T with manual. All the way from 2000rpm to 5000rpm, the car pulls like crazy. Of course if you want MORE power, go with the S4 bi-turbo. That thing is......oh well. Anyhow, this 1.8T is no normal 4-cylinder engine. That said, I have test driven a 02 A4 1.8T manual and I don't know if it's because we got 3 people inside the car (the salesguy is at least.....300lbs), but it doesn't feel as fast as my 2001.5. I guess it all comes down to your own test drive and your own preference. However, as many have pointed out, don't get the Tiptronic on the 1.8T Quattro. Torque converter takes out way too much torque.....and that's why my buddy in San Francisco bought a 325ci automatic rather than an A4 1.8T Quattro automatic cuz he thinks the Audi is a lot slower with the automatic.

The back seat legroom is small for sure, but heck, I don't usually carry people around (except my girlfriend) and if I do, it might be at the most for an hour or so inside Chicago. It's not as big as a Lincoln Town car, but heck, it's enough.

All in all, I still love this car after 15,300 miles (Feb 28 is her 1st anniversary)......take note, Rocco.

Billy

bluetrane

To any who may be interested, I just got the updated Audi A4 literature in the mail yesterday. The new brochure has info/specs/pics of the Avant. It also now includes the paint "swatch" for the Avant-only Atlas Gray. It may be of interest to anyone who has ordered or is considering a wagon.

Rick

goolapper

.....if anybody back there complains about the legroom, suggest they "lay down" that will
solve their problem. Works really well when complainee is a girlfriend. Or consider the minivan
alternative.....

jdbtensai

nschulman3: you have a wrx manual? i'd think you'd want an suv, a van, or a "near-luxury" car. seems a little strange to have an a4 1.8 quattro and a wrx. but i don't know what you're looking for. what are you looking for? which would be your "second" car?

markcincinnati: are you on audiworld?

brick22

Where did you get the brochure? I want one! Is there anything else in it that differentiates the avant from the sedan?

Thanks!

brick22

I'm also in the northwest and looking for the best deal even if I have to go to California. What options did you get? Any word on pricing to expect in Washington or California? I actually want an Avant 1.8T manual and i liked hearing that it comes in Atlas grey--I thought that was an interior color--What ever you have to offer about dealing I'd like to hear.
Thanks!

andietigger

scirocco22

Jill-- e-mail me if you want the results of my research of western WA dealers when I purchased my '01.5 last March.

The differences that I've heard are the Avant's wheelbase is 1.7" longer and of course, the Avant is only available with quattro ...so that means no mutitronic option, evidently. But you want a 5-speed anyway, so nevermind.

--'rocco

affy

Was it true Audi mailed gift boxes with fruits and junkfoods inside? Saw this topic in Audi world, I bought the car for two months now but no gifts other than the catalog and coilpack letter.

tcasboy

I have a 2001.5 1.8T with the 5spd manual and I never even considered the tip/auto because I had been driving 2 cars for the past 4 years with auto and wanted to actually drive the car. The 1.8 w/5 spd manual is no rocket, and there is a definite flat spot around 2800 rpm when accelerating(right before the turbo kicks in I guess, and I don't like to rev it much past 3500, even though it redlines at 5500 or so, can't remember exactly), but the car can certainly get out of anybodys way when you need to. There is usually very good power on tap for passing manuevers as long as you keep the revs above 2000 or so and the gas mileage is terrific. I don't miss a 6 cyl at all, of course I am getting old and pretty conservative in my driving habits. There is a lot of unbridled enthusiasm in this forum for the quattro, and justifiably so, but after selling two 4 wheel drive vehicles that I never needed the 4WD on(and the fact that I lived in VA and now AL) I certainly didn't deel the extra cost was necessary for me. I think most people do not need the quattro unless they routinely drive in snow. I think the handling benefits are probably offset by the additional weight (just one opinion, please don't hate me)and the added up- front cost and complexity (more maint $'s) will bring much higher ownership costs in the long run (perhaps to be offset by higher resale). Only you can decide if that cost is worth the peace of mind you will get with the quattro (not to mention bragging rights!) Anyway, I am very pleased with the 1.8, 5 spd and FWD. You can hardly go wrong with the A4! Good luck and happy shopping.

bluetrane

Brick: It was mailed to me by a local dealership, so I can only assume they can be picked up by anyone at a dealer.

As far as differences between the sedan and wagon, exterior dimensions are identical, except the wagon sits an inch higher (might just be the roof rack rails). The Avants are about 100 pounds heavier than a sedan with the same engine/drivetrain. There are some subtle differences in how the wagons are optioned.

A few people on AW are driving theirs already, if you're looking for some personal accounts.

Rick

10k_oregon

I am currently working with Sunset Audi and offered them 5% over invoice on a A4 1,8T Quattro loaded. If they accept then I will be buying that car for $31000. If you want more info e-mail me for updates.

scirocco22

Corey-- So you haven't heard anything yet? If you can get 5%-over, IMO, that's a pretty good price for the NW! ...good luck! btw, your email addy is hidden.

Rick-- Same wheelbase??? ...hmmm, I was sure it was longer on the Avant ...1.7" is what I understood but no, eh? That's a disappointment.

--'rocco

a4_4vince

I am not too familiar with the pricings in Washington and California. I bought from Sunset Imports at Beaverton, Oregon. I didn't get a very good deal, about 8% above invoice. But if you want the detail, email me. I just don't want to post the details over and over again and bore the regulars here...hehe..hope you don't mind. Good luck in finding the deal.

I just hit 1000 miles on my 1.8T. Still flawless. I might go test drive the 3.0 later just for the heck of it.

vince...8o)

10k_oregon

I have open my e-mail id for those interested.

brick22

Thank you so much all of you. I don't have time to write right now, but I'll definitely email you with questions. This is such a cool site!

houaudia418t

It's a little off-topic but...
Just curious if anyone just bought a car had to pay the VIT (Vehicle Inventory Tax). Does
anyone know if this tax is a state mandated fee that the non-dealer car buyer has to pay
or is it one of those fees/tax that the dealer is trying to pass on to us? I live in Houston.

Thanks in advance!

scirocco22

houaudia418t-- Sure sounds fishy to me but I'm not in Texas. You might want to ask the question on the message board/forums at the North Texas Audi Group: http://www.northtexasaudigroup.com/forums/

There may be other Audi groups in Texas but that's the only one that I'm aware of. Let us know if you get any responses to your question over there.

--'rocco

scirocco22

Jill-- Are you located in Washington or Oregon?

--'rocco

bluetrane

The literature lists the WB as a solid 104.3 across all body styles. I think I heard the same thing as you though, that the Avant had a little longer WB and thus more rear legroom.

brick22

Why? I'm going to write you later when I have more time.

amy44

Does anyone know how much over invoice/under MSRP I should expect to pay for an 1.8T (manual) in the Bay Area/around SF? Also, since I would rarely drive this in the snow and more in the rain, do people feel it is worth getting the Quattro?

Thanks!

scirocco22

amy44-- From what I'm hearing, west coast prices aren't varying as much as usual. Out here in the west, we are still paying more for A4s than in the mid-west or the east coast. 7-8% over invoice in the west compared to 4.5-7% over invoice in other locations in the country. This is just from what I'm hearing so take it with a-grain-of-salt ...I'm sure there'll be geographic pockets, even here in the west, where you'll be able to do better but just use what I'm reporting as a rule-of-thumb. And as for quattro, as we've discussed before, many of us believe that quattro is worth it both for its handling characteristics (yes, even in snow-less conditions) and its resale value. The aspect of quattro retaining more value might be shifting now that fwd is available with CVT ...who knows for sure --time will tell.

brick44-- um, ok *looks puzzled* no reason, just curious ...no offense.

Rick-- Whoa! Guess what? I went to the Edmunds specifications area and this is what they're reporting: sedan wheelbase = 104.3" and the Avant wheelbase = 103.2" They are reporting that the length of the Avant is actually 2.7" shorter than the sedan. Can this be right??? I think I do remember somebody saying that the Avant was shorter but didn't pay it too much attention. I'm going to do some more research on this but can you look at your brochure again and see if you can confirm that the Avant's length is 176.3" and its wheelbase 103.2" and report back please? TIA!

--'rocco

nyccarguy

From what I've read here and on the BMW boards, buying a car in the bay area really sucks and is just as bad as the Seattle area (CA gets better weather, we get better deals on cars here in NY). I'd recommend Quattro to you even if there is no snow. The handling characteristics are awesome. If you're leasing, the Quattro cars have a better residual (in NY at least). If you're buying, the Quattro will have a better resale value down the road.

To all you A4 owners out there: Does the 1.8T have the dual outlet exhaust coming out of the back like the 3.0 does?

btr1

bluetrane

The wheelbase is 104.3" and the length is 179" for both the sedan and the wagon. In fact, all other dimensions measured are exactly the same with the exception of height, which is listed at 56.2" for the sedan and 57.2" for the Avant, although from the diagram, it looks like the extra height is just the roof rails on the wagon.

Interior dimensions are not listed with the exception of volumes. Interestingly enough, while the front volume is a steady 50.7 cu ft for both styles, the Avant has an extra .7 cu ft of room in the rear (39.4 to 40.1), which I suppose could be from the roofline although I'm hoping it's from a skooch more rear legroom. Luggage volume is listed at 13.4 and 27.8 cu ft respectively. No mention is made of room with the seats folded.

Again, I have not yet seen an Avant in person; this info comes strictly from Audi's literature

brick22

Now I'm getting talked out of the A4 1.8T because I've heard auto mechanics say a turbo engine is not the best to buy because of the turbo process. Is that true any more? Exactly what is the turbo--what does it do? What problems can it cause?

Thanks!
sorry if I sounded gruff-scirocc!

scirocco22

brick44-- *heh* no prob. ;-) A very elementary and simplified definition of a turbocharged engine is one that uses exhaust gasses to provide added pressure for enhanced engine combustion. The regulars here know my love of the 1.8t engine. As I've said many times before, it's an engine that's been used across the VW/Audi model line for some time now and has made the Wards "ten-best" four times in recent years. So far, the turbo itself has proven to be very reliable if left in its low-pressure stock form with very few major problems reported. Turbos allow engines to have added power with very little weight gain. Here is a quotation from Wards in its latest write-up of the 1.8t engine (from the 2002 list of "ten best" ...Jetta application):

"Auto makers of the world, fix your gaze upon this engine.

How does Volkswagen AG manage to give out this much in cars that don't cost a whole lot? After all, this grunty but high-tech little powerhouse now can be had with a Volkswagen badge for around $19,000. Go to the domestics — and more than one of the Japanese auto makers, too — and that same money gets you some crappy unit that deserves the moniker of “4-banger.”

But somehow, VW makes a business case for doling out in inexpensive cars: DOHC, five valves per cylinder, turbocharging and intercooling — and the bragging rights of an even 100 hp/L. That exposes a $19,000 Pontiac Grand Am and its grubby pushrod V-6, while similarly thrashing any 4-cyl. from anybody in this price range.

This engine has enjoyed a unique distinction of migrating on and off the Best Engines list a couple of times, usually depending on the power level. We originally liked this 4-cyl. technical showcase at its initial 150-hp rating, so it stands to reason we're happier still with an added 30 hp. The 180-hp rating has done nothing to blunt this engine's outstanding NVH properties — the VW 1.8T continues as one of the market's sweetest, most powerful 4-cyl. engines, and to call it a “base” engine is a disservice.

We applaud VW's generosity in providing this level of engine techno-finery at the bottom part of the market, but we remain at a loss to explain the yo-yo marketing that dictates this engine's ever-changing power ratings. Last year, VW-brand vehicles got the engine at 150 hp and the up-market Audi unit enjoyed the advantage of the 170-hp rating for sedans and 180 hp for the TT sports car.

Although we can't see the reason for such minor distinctions within a brand, the rationale is at least evident. But for 2002, we're befuddled by the VW brand's access to the punchy 180-hp rating for the 1.8T, while Audi's all-new A4 remains saddled with the 170-hp version. Huh?

That's OK, VW. We're happy to point buyers to the Golf or Jetta 1.8T, thankful that VW makes available in affordable cars one of the most technically sophisticated 4-cyl. engines available at any price."

Rick-- Okay, thanx. This issue has now really got me curious. I'm going to continue to do some more research on this when I have the chance.

gerry-- Yup, it does look cool!

Bradd-- Good comments! *lol* ...exactly what I've been hearing too. But still doesn't explain why we in Seattle area get both crumby weather and worse deals on A4s! :-p

--'rocco

nyccarguy

Start of the grunge movement in the early '90's and better coffee.

lauk0dg

My belief is, whatever those brochures said about interior legroom or other dimensions are, don't trust them. They can be totally deceiving, especially the interior volumes. Some of the interior volumes might be hiding in places that you don't really use. Also about the legroom, I don't even know if all auto manufacturers are putting the seats at the same position when they measure them. So it's not right to compare a BMW's rear legroom vs an A4's rear legroom. The best way is to go test drive one, set the front seats to your comfy position, and then hop into the rear seat and see if you like the rear legroom.

The only ones I trust are the exterior dimensions.

About rear legroom, I sat in an 02 Avant and it feels about the same as the sedan. It's larger than the pre 02 A4's but not by much....barely noticeable.

Billy