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Audi A4 2004 and earlier

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  • shopshopshopshop Posts: 9
    I'm also trying to decide on a 330i or the A4. Here is my analysis so far:

    330i:
    35,100 invoice
    38,500 MSRP

    Moon, Sport, Xenon, Lux Package, Steptronic

    A4:
    34,000 invoice
    37,500 MSRP

    Moon, Sport, Xenon, Leather, Tiptronic

    Most likely prices IMHO:
    330i 37,100 (2k over invoice)
    A4 34,500 - 35,000 (500 to 1,000 over invoice)

    I actually like driving the 330i better due to its better low-end power. I am also concerned that the A4 will take a hit with the impending model change. All that said, the A4 is a great car and I would get a somewhat better deal, also due to the impending model change.

    Any thoughts?
  • lisamplslisampls Posts: 20
    As I said in my posts...the 2002 A4 will gain 14" overall...I did say it was not just in the length. What the specifics are I don't know, nor did my salesperson. I think the difference currently between the A4 and the A6 is only about 5", so it wouldn't take much to make the body styling look more like the A6.
  • lisamplslisampls Posts: 20
    Which models are you looking at? I tested the 330i (not the x) and the 2.8T. The 330 was just over $40K (gasp!) and the 2.8T was just under $40K.
    Also, what state are you in? I am amazed at the difference in pricing from state to state!
  • shopshopshopshop Posts: 9
    State California, SF Bay Area. Tested 330i and the A4 2.8. My listing of packages probably left off some nits from each car, but the final tally has them both roughly equal in core features, but for the Audi quattro system, which is why the A4 doesn't have as much of a price differential as I thought it would. I thought of shelving the quattro system based on the low probability of ever taking it in the snow, but it seems like one of the main reasons to buy an Audi, and also almost all if not all the 2001 Audi's in this area are quattro.

    I guess my main concern right now is that the 2k or so in price differential could be blown away pretty rapidly by a fast depreciation of the A4.
  • scotrickscotrick Posts: 8
    Hi guys,

    I just purchased a light silver 2001 A4, FWD 1.8T, with Celebration package and Sports Package (only had 11 miles on it). I got a really good deal in San Antonio (less than 25K). I would highly recommend Rod East Audi in San Antonio...they will work with you!!! Ask for Donnie.

    I decided to go with FWD because this is Texas (we don't get snow, and if it does ice over, everything closes down...lol). I love the car...thanks for the advice SCIROCCO22 and everyone else that gave input...the sports package is definitely worth it.

    What about gas? The salesperson told me to put medium grade (around 91 octane) in the car...any recommendations? I thought about the premium stuff, but if I can save money without sacrificing performance (and detonation???), I'll do it. What are you thoughts??

    Awesome purchase...no buyer's remorse here!!!!

    Scott
  • lauk0dglauk0dg Posts: 563
    NOOO we didn't try to pick on ya.....I just forgot about the stupid spell check can play tricks on ya :>

    Shopshop, for that price on an A4, I'm assuming you are talking about a 2.8? For that price, include the S4 in your list. Yes it's more expensive, but it comes STANDARD with leather, xenon, sport (there's no such thing on an S4, the suspension is already tweaked), and Tiptronics at no extra charge. The S4 comes with 2 turbos so there's not that much lag.

    OK Quattro is useful in the winter/snow, but it's also useful when you take a curve by giving you traction on all 4 wheels.

    Like fdxboy, I was also considering the 325ci b4 buying the A4 1.8T......a nicely equipped 325ci runs for $35k easy......while the A4 1.8T is $29k MSRP......there's not that much of a power difference between the 325ci and the 1.8T.....OK the BMW got more juice at the high end (high rpm and high speed), but I just LOVE the turbo spooling in the 1.8T. The 1.8T feels faster in city traffic, that's for sure, if you keep the rpm between 2500 and 4000. There might be a bigger power difference between the A4 2.8 and 330i.....so be sure to drive them all......and the S4 if your budget allows you to the $42k MSRP zone, which you should be able to get it at around $39.5k.....250hp and 266lbft of torque in a turbocharged 2.7L engine.

    Which brings out the point of turbocharged engines vs normally aspirated engines.....the A4 1.8T engine and S4 engine are turbocharged, the A4 2.8 and all BMW engines are normally aspirated.....which some can argue it should be cheaper to maintain a normally aspirated engine car. As some of you pointed out, the 1.8T engine got numerous awards as one of the "10 Best" engines so that should make us rest easier.

    Congrats on the purchase, Scotrick. I like it, another silver :>

    Billy
  • fdxboyfdxboy Posts: 45
    As far as gas goes..in Chi-town our gas Octane is 87, 89, and 93(for the most part) The manual recommends premium...the dealer said premium..so that is what I put in. Dealer said I could put in the cheap stuff, but I lose some power and my MPG goes down. Besides. What is it? .10 from middle to high Octane? Doesn't your "baby" deserve the best? As far as Quattro goes, I agree with Lauk. Cornering hard is not even an issue with me. I don't think twice about it. Also, Quattro is the one option that you will lose NO deprecitaion on when it is time to resell.
    As far as Bimmers' go...I do like them. Although many bimmer owners think that they are the end all be all when it comes to cars. Give me the choice btwn a 330 and a S4...I will take the S4 and the a$$ kicking it will give the 330 everytime.
  • godeacsgodeacs Posts: 481
    Way to go, Scott! I've been looking at the A4 at Rod East also. Just curious what else you got on the car in the way of options. Did you do a trade in? I've been impressed with the folks there.....
  • lauk0dglauk0dg Posts: 563
    when it comes to gas. Unless I'm in Montana (I remember the highest octane over there was 90), I will insist on 93 Octane for it. Speaking of which, I'm happy that the gas finally drops to $1.749 for Shell 93 in suburban Chicago, or $1.649 at some unknown name brand station. Man, I remember when we're paying $2.399 2 months ago in Chicago.....

    Hehe just spanked a stock Eclipse (the 4-banger one).....that dude must be thinking what the heck I got under the hood.....NO mods and don't underestimate an Audi :>

    Billy
  • shopshopshopshop Posts: 9
    Decided on the A4, and yes it is the 2.8. i decided the nominal difference in the cars (other than pure engine power--the 225hp in the BMW is truely awesome) was not enough to justify 3 to 4k in purchase price difference. I am giving priceline a shot at $500 over invoice, so I have my fingers crossed. Should find out by 7:00AM my time if a dealer accepts. Anyone else use priceline to by a car?
  • scotrickscotrick Posts: 8
    Godeac...the celebration package and sports package were the only options I got...they were all I really wanted. I like the standard stereo system alot and didn't feel the need to get the Bose upgrade. One thing I like about Audi compared to other cars is that the standard equipment on the car are considered options on other cars...my girlfriend just bought a Toyota RAV4 (I tried talking her out of it...it's actually pretty nice though). Everything was an option...including the A/C...this is TEXAS! How can an A/C be in option in TEXAS!!!? I hope you can get a great deal in San Antonio. My experience was very pleasant!

    Thanks everyone for the recommendation on which grade of gas to use...out of curiosity, does the A4 1.8T, 5-Speed manual w/ Quattro get the same mpg as the FWD A4 1.8T (5sp manual)??? Someone told me that Quattro burns a little more gas.

    Scott

    Scott
  • scotrickscotrick Posts: 8
    Godeac...I forgot...I didn't do a trade in for the car.

    Scott
  • scirocco22scirocco22 Posts: 721
    Scott-- Congratulations!! I'll forgive you for not going with Quattro:P If I were in Texas I might have considered a fwd but even without snow and ice Quattro does have its advatages. Up here in the NW, non-Quattro Audis are virtually unheard of. If one were to special order one, the resale value would be so poor that it wouldn't make too much sense. I think most people that would consider a fwd A4 would probably be better off going with a Passat in this area just because of the resale factor. As far as gas goes, yes, the fwd will get considerably better gas mileage because of its lighter weight. 24/32 (city/highway) for the fwd manual and 22/29 for a Quattro with the 5-speed manual. Well, maybe that isn't "considerably" better but still will add up over time, lol. So, Scott, don't be stingy; go ahead and use that recommended premium gas. You'll still be spending less than we will with our Quattros:P --I think you'll be glad in the long run especially with a turbo-charged engine.

    Alex-- *thumbs up* ...yah, chosing the Audi over the BMW makes sense as far as getting the most value for the money. That's why I went with an A4. As I've said before, I really think the 3-series Bimmer could be the ultimate car for me but I just couldn't see spending that much for what I was getting; at this point in my life, anyway, lol... maybe someday! I had a friend who used Priceline and recommends it. But he was buying a Toyota where there are a whole bunch of dealers here in this area. Since we only have two Audi dealers in the Seattle metropolitan area, I didn't try it with the Audi. I considered trying it for the Subaru Forester that I'm currently buying but I found a dealer in the area that is selling them at a flat-rate over invoice through their internet department. $500 over invoice sounds really resonable for a 2.8 A4 at this time of year. I think you'll get lots of bidding on it especially if you're in a big metropolitan area like SF where I'm assuming have lots of Audi dealers. Good luck and let us know how it goes!

    Lisa-- LOL!, sorry, I actually wasn't kidding with my questions in my last post! ...then I remembered that awful spell-check that Edmunds has after Pat mentioned it. I stopped using that long ago, lol. Just a quick thought: If I were in Minneapolis, I'd surely be seriously considering an Audi Quattro over any rwd Bimmer because of your long cold winters. And yes, as Billy explained, IMO, the Quattro is far superior to any awd system out there, especially the BMW's. I bet you could get a real good deal on an A6 right now. By the end of the summer, most of the A4's might be gone but A6's are slower sellers and I don't believe that the new A6 will be out until deep into the end of the year so you might just be able to get a real good deal on an '01 A6 even into the Fall. I'll have more to say on SUV's later, lol. Keep us posted!

    --'rocco
  • nitpickernitpicker Posts: 89
    Hey, Scirocco22, I'm jealous -- a new A4 and a new Forester? See msg on Subaru Wagons: So Many Choices....
  • lauk0dglauk0dg Posts: 563
    just because they're slower to move. Don't get me wrong, they're nice cars, just that I think most people in that price range are looking at the BMW 530i or even the 540i. Interesting that most people won't mention a Mercedes in this kind of comparison.....I guess they are just priced way out of league.....last time I checked, a nicely equipped Mercedes C320 costs almost as much as an A6 2.7T.....hehe I'll take the Audi.

    Oh yes cars equipped w/Quattro burn more gas, more weight (like a couple of hundred pounds!!) and more energy/friction loss between more moving parts (I'd assume). It also translates into faster 0-60 times.....7.5 sec with FrontTrac manual vs 7.8 sec with Quattro manual. AND you can smoke some tires when you want to with a FrontTrac....LOL. Actually I noticed that Audi (www.audiusa.com) just added a Quattro introduction and FAQ right when you open their website. Go check it out if you wanna learn more about Quattro.

    Oh Scirocco, the Audi 1.8T website does list the engine oil at 3.7 quarts.....darn it how come they put in 4.3 quarts in our manuals which I assume is the amount that they put in when the engine is brand new sans oil?

    Well, 5,760 happy miles and still cruising too fast. Now let's talk about radar detectors.....
  • scirocco22scirocco22 Posts: 721
    Karen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!-- I was thinking about you the other day!! I thought we lost you! I was thinking about posting a message to you over on that other board but the last time I looked it was kind of dead. But yes, I kinda/sorta decided on the Forester. You can't imagine what kind of turmoil I went through with that decision and I'm still not feeling real good about it. You'll have to read what I've been posting over on the main "Forester" board the last week or so. Basically I've just been rehashing all the old stuff that we've already talked about (I even brought up the "Brat" again, lol) but I think price and value finally won out; just as it did with the A4. I'll try to get over there and post a message to you on that "...so many choices" board when I get the chance. So... how many more days?????? At first, I was going to factory order the Forester until they discovered that one was coming in on the next shipment. They told me that it would be 6-8 weeks for the factory order. I thought about what you are going through and was happy that they found one. *argh* it must be agony for you now that it's getting so close! Ok, good to hear from you again, Karen... keep in touch with us here on this board!

    Billy-- Ahhh... that's it! 4.3 for the original factory fill! ...that makes sense. Yeah, I did find that TSB. It's in PFD format in a file on my 'puter. I couldn't quite figure out how to post it here and I couldn't find the post again over on AW from which I originally got it from. So I tried to copy and paste it and guess what? They have an encoded message that shows up when pasted that has a really threatening message about copying, publishing, transferring, etc., that made it sound like they'd prosecute you to "the fullest extent of the law" if they saw that you were reproducing it somewhere without their permission. Sheesh! ...don't understand what the big deal is *looks perplexed* Then I was going to give you the TSB number and now I find that the VW web-site that list all the TSB's is now requiring a password. I think I remember someone over at AW making reference to that but that is so stupid that they are now only making their TSB's available to only service technicians and not the general public. But anyway, yes, the official refill amount is 3.7 qt. with filter change and at the bottom of the TSB there is a warning on the importance of not overfilling and the consequences.
  • lauk0dglauk0dg Posts: 563
    and it's not easy to "suck" up the excess oil. Wish they have some sort of an "overfill" plug that's accessible so you can drain the excess out.

    One thing I noticed recently, the amount of brake dust that sticks to the rims is somewhat less than when the car was brand new. Yay!

    Billy
  • scirocco22scirocco22 Posts: 721
    Billy-- That's a question I was going to ask you: I thought I read somewhere on AW that most Audi dealers use the "suction" method when doing an oil change. Something about it being the recommended procedure in Europe. Is this correct? ...they suck the old oil out through the dipstick tube and never touch the drain plug on the pan? --something about it being more efficient and also protecting the integrity of the drain plug and it's "hole" (less chance of mis-threading and less chance of leaking because of the numerous on-and-offs through the years). Did your dealer use the suction method? I think I've seen a DIY suction thingie at an auto parts store years ago but thought it was some kind of a joke.

    LOL, I was just going to say the opposite about the brake dust... I seem to be getting it heavier lately! Maybe it's because I'm starting to drive a little more aggressively now that I'm approaching the end of the break-in period! Man, what a pain it is to wipe off the wheels almost every day! :-(
  • nitpickernitpicker Posts: 89
    No, Rocco, I wasn't lost, just busy with work. Looks like another week or two before the 1.8T arrives. The ship left port June 19, so the dealer figures we'll see it in mid-July. Funny, I know I should be psyched. Instead, I'm thinking stuff like: Oh, man, I hope this car is reliable. Oh, man, I hope I don't miss my trusty ol' Integra. Oh, man, I wish I would've gotten ESP....

    Congrats on the Forester, BTW. What a perfect duo to have in your garage! I do think you'll appreciate the Forester's utility and reliability; also, IMO, the A4 and Forester are two of the best deals for the dollar among any vehicles. And sounds like you did get a nice deal on both!
  • mgmyersmgmyers Posts: 13
    Just got my new Audi - a silver A4 2.8 Avant manual. Excuse me for posting to the sedan forum, but there's not much happening on the A4 wagon forum. Anyhow, I bought a V6 Passat 2 years ago and although it's really a nice car just didn't have the right "feel" to it. I'd been thinking about an Audi ever since and finally made the "mistake" of test driving one :-) That was pretty much all it took... Let me tell you, finding a manual 2.8 Avant was not easy. Originally, I placed an order for one (in early May), but Audi did not allocate ANY Avants to so Cal (I'm guessing they stopped taking new orders by late May). Anyhow, I panicked briefly, since I didnt' want a 2002 - long wait and not thrilled about the new body style. The dealer found a silver 2.8 manual Avant on it's way to CA, and was able to get it for me. Sadly, it didn't have the sports package, which I really wanted, but at this point the selection is very limited (dealer said there are only 2 2.8 Avants in all of CA!). Picked her up last Thursday and couldn't be happier! What a beautiful car! I have leather and the Bose upgrade, which I originally didn't want, but am very happy with both. I'll probably go ahead and have a sports suspension (springs and shocks) installed, but am pretty happy with the stock 16" wheels. Can't wait to finish the break-in period (anybody need a ride?).

    Mark
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