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Audi A4 2004 and earlier

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  • kk13kk13 Posts: 30
    My vote is for 170 hp and here's why:

    * From AudiWorld post Passat and A4 have the same orientation and coincidently the same hp as does the TT and Jetta

    * Orientation would effect the exhaust manifold which could easily account for 10 hp

    * Any benefit for the TT of having 10 additional hp would be less than the detriment from the Jetta having 10 extra hp. My guess it that more people cross shop the Jetta and the A4 than the A4 and the TT.

    * Any additional V6 sales would be less than lost A4 sales to 325i or other competitors.

    * Automakers work so hard to get additional performance from engines I can't imagine giving up the ability to market 10 additional hp.
  • Just curious - what have the various chip tuners measured for output when they do their "before and after" chip install comparisons? Don't most include graphs of HP and torque that show both stock and modified engines?
  • lauk0dglauk0dg Posts: 563
    I think most charts include before-and-after hp and torque at the wheels, NOT at the flywheel. The hp and torque numbers an auto manufacturer claims are actually at the flywheel. As I understand there's no direct way to measure it there. It's just an estimation how much % of power it lost through all the components before the wheels. As in the new Nissan Sentra SE-R Spec V, Nissan at first claimed 180hp. However Import Car Magazine measured only a pathetic 140hp or so at the wheel. THey said there's no way it lost that much power from the flywheel to the wheels. Nissan later reduced the claim to 175hp but still a far cry from 140hp. In comparison they said an Acura Integra GS-R claimed 170hp at the flywheel and 150hp at the wheels. These numbers are all from my memory so please don't flame me if I didn't get them 100% right :>

    However I heard from credible sources that the A4 1.8T engine puts out 180hp, even on the pre 2001 ones without the little red slash next to the "T" on the trunk. Reasons for being not to flame the TT owners, not to pull potential 2.8 buyers, and to pay less taxes. Too bad we just can't take our Quattro cars to the dyno cuz I think the normal dynos can't do AWD cars. Maybe the FWD owners can do us a favor??

    Billy
  • dej0dej0 Posts: 36
    Hi Gang,
    I had to go to the dealer today for the ignition recall on my '97 A4. I test drove the new 3.0 with quattro, manual transmission and sports package. I thought it was much quicker and tighter than my old car. No surprise there. I did not find the ride too harsh on the highway. It was definately quieter and the engine noise is very, very different. More of a throatier, growling kind of noise. I liked the new layout of the dash. I was a little leary of the ball on the stick. The 6 speed was nice, but not too much better shifting than the '97. In other words, they still need to work on this a little bit. It had leather, but to be honest, I did not think it was that much better than the leatherette. All in all, I liked it better than my '97, and I really love my '97. The guy on the lot was VERY intersted in me turning in my '97, says they cannot keep the used ones on the lot. They had about 3 or 4 of the '02s and several more 01's still on the lot.
    I did not drive the S4, but I did drive an A6 3.0 just to give it a try. It was not as fun or sporty, but I did like it better than I thought. I do not like automatics, but it would redline and the quattro worked as well as it did on the A4. I liked it better than my mom's Lexus. The sales guy told me the were having trouble moving the S4s due to the new body style. He hinted they would be willing to bargain on one of those. I did not ask too much about the new A4 in terms of pricing. I have a few other cars I want to drive before I buy. If the dealer was close by, the A4 would probably be tops, especially with the 4 year warranty.

    Have a good one.
  • brave1heartbrave1heart Posts: 2,698
    A friend of mine test-drove the '02 1.8T Q auto and the '02 1.8T front-track CVT. He was very impressed with how smooth the CVT was but he came back thinking the 1.8T Q auto was faster. I have driven neither transmission but the front-track is about 250 lbs lighter and the CVT is supposed to be as fast as the manual, so I'm guessing the front-track CVT would be a full second faster than the Quattro auto (both 1.8T). I have noticed on this board that anyone who has tested the 1.8T came out thinking it was plenty fast - typically, as fast as the older 2.8 and almost as fast as the 3.0. I think a lot of this is due to the turbo effect: the car pulls very hard at the point the turbo kicks in giving you the false sensation that you are accelerating extremely fast. I have not seen any official 0-60 and 0-100 numbers for our '01 1.8T Q manual but I'd be guessing it's around 7.5 sec 0-60. It may be quicker than our 325i manual for a brief moment when the turbo kicks in and glues you to the seat. Before you know it, though, the RPM needle is up near the redline and you have to shift wasting precious time (fast as you shift). I drive both cars on regular basis and I know that the 325i is definitely faster but the 1.8T FEELS a bit faster at the point when the turbo kicks in. All I am trying to say is that the 1.8T is a great little engine but make no mistake about it - the 3.0 will be a lot faster. It may not feel like it because of its smoothness, though.
  • I'll be picking up my '02 1.8T Quattro, Dolphin Gray, on Friday!
    I ordered the optional 16-inch tires.
    However, I like the look of the 17-inch wheels and the supposed improved performance of the summer tires.
    I'm considering buying a set of the 17-inch wheels & tires and mounting them for summer driving. Will this improve the car's performance even though I didn't order it with the sports suspension?
  • I'm told my car is ready tomorrow! So I'm gonna go pick it up during lunch! Whoohoo!
    02 1.8T Quattro Tip, Dolphin Gray/Ebony interior.

    I'm sure 17 wheels and tires will help the performance. As for suspension...don't sweat it too much. The standard suspension for the 2002 models was the sports suspension for the 2001's.

    Don't you love the Dolphin Gray color?!
  • tcasboytcasboy Posts: 214
    I have a question for the forum about the brake dust that clings to the front wheels. I remember some earlier discussions about it and after having put about 1500 miles on my new 2001 A4 1.8 I can't believe how bad the dust is, particularly in front (of course). Anyway, I was wondering if anybody had tried a different brand of brake pads that reduced the dust or those brake covers that claim to stop the dust without overheating the brakes. I've washed the car several times and Audi really ought to be ashamed for putting out a product that covers itself in dust like that, its really bad. Any info on some aftermarket pads or covers would be most appreciated. Thanks.
  • kk13kk13 Posts: 30
    I heard that waxing the wheels helps reduce the amount of brake dust that accumulates.
  • I am seriously thinking about getting the new 2002 Audi A4. I live in the SF bay area. Would anyone out there recommend a reputable dealership or a dealer. Thanks for your help in advance
  • Paul-- Kelly's right. We did discuss this several months ago and concluded that waxing the wheels does help with brake dust accumulation ...plus it makes it easier to wash off the accumulation that does settle. But to reduce the actual production of dust, you have to at least get rid of the OEM pads. A co-worker of mine swears by Mintex Red Box. Over on AudiWorld, I've seen threads that discuss the disadvantages of using Mintex but my friend tells me that he's used them for years on VWs and Audis with no ill effects in performance or problems with noise at all. Dust shields are not particularly recommended because of the reduced airflow causing possible brake overheating. I've gathered that the ideal solution is to change both the pads and the rotors but who wants to spend that kind of money especially if both show little wear? I'm probably going to wait until 30k or so before considering changing anything ...in the meantime, I suppose I'm going to be doing a lot of waxing and scrubbing. :) *sighs*

    Vic-- Congratulations! ...I'm envious. But drive it first ...I'll bet you'll be surprised at how well it handles with the 16's even with the non-sport suspension. 17's will be more prone to accumulate curb rash, etc. Remember, they're pretty low profile and don't have much of a sidewall. The 16's will come with all-seasons so you won't even have to worry about seasonal change-overs.

    --'rocco
  • lauk0dglauk0dg Posts: 563
    Actually now that my buddy driving a BMW brought up, most German cars have tons of brake dust on their rims.....of course excluding the ones that are just washed and brand spanking clean. Brake dust was a hassle during the first few thousand miles, but now with 12,000 miles it's still bad but not as bad as before. A good cleaning solution is the Alloy Wheel Cleaner from Audi. Not trying to pull a plug for them, but it's pretty amazing. Just spray it on, and hose it off with a strong water jet after 30 seconds. Plus you don't need to worry about whether or not it's good for the rims. It's Audi genuine parts and I guess that can't be wrong.

    Billy
  • Brake-dust is the bane of my existence. I'm used to cleaning my rims every two-three days.
  • I supposedly pick up my car today around lunch.
    we'll see how things go.
    I'll get excited once I have the car in my hands! =)

    in terms of wheels and tires...
    do you really think we need winter/all-season tires in Seattle. It rarely snows here (sure sure..it snowed a little today)...but do you think the tires that come with the 17" would be fine right?

    If not....anyone got a good recommendation on winter tires?
  • James-- Congrats! If I didn't have an appointment, I'd come over there and cheer as they handed you the keys. :P ...or at least hide over at the Burger King and watch. *lol*

    Well, um... maybe it's global warming or something but I was born and raised in the Seattle area and I agree that in the last ten years we haven't really had a big snow storm of any magnitude but man, I can remember some whoppers (:O ...must have Burger King on the brain today) back in the 50's and 60's when I was a kid. Even in the 70's and 80's we've had some pretty big snow and ice storms; one that promted me to go out and buy dedicated snow tires for even my 4Runner. Since I'm a Central alum' and used to be an avid skier, I've had sets of snow tires for most of my cars in the past for going back and forth over the pass. One snow and ice storm we had back in the 80's (can't remember exactly what year it was) made me swear that I'd always own at least one vehicle with either 4WD or AWD. Now that I have two vehicles with AWD, I'm still debating whether to equip one of them with a set of snow tires ...even though I no longer ski as often or regularly go up to or over the Cascades. So with all that said, just remember to leave the Audi in the garage if or when we do get another big snow someday! ...those 17" sport tires will be awful, believe me. But maybe global warming is in fact a reality and we won't see any snow in Seattle for the rest of our lives! ...or the next 100 years, whichever comes first.

    I haven't done much research on snow tires recently but my neighbor uses Michelin Artic Alpins on his Outback to go skiing and he loves 'em.

    --'rocco
  • barresa62barresa62 Posts: 1,379
    I just ordered Dunlop Wintersports for my WRX wagon through Tirerack. I'm going to have them mounted on the stock 16"rims and go for a different 17"rim in the spring. Another good performance winter tire is the Bridgestone Blizzak LM22. I go skiing once or twice in the Cascades and once a year to Whister.

    BTW, did you get any snow today? I just had some wet flakes but no accumulation over in the Greenwood/Phinney area.

    Stephen
  • nobeenobee Posts: 194
    Wow, it just seems like yesterday that I picked up my diploma from Central. Remember all the snow we had back in Ellensburg? Snowflakes were as big as the rainbows I fished for on the Yakima. Anyways, my advice on snow tires would be to forget about them and perhaps buy a set of 15" all-wx tires and save a few bucks, no? From my experience in the snow, an AWD vehicle should have zero problems. Unless it gets real icy, then snow tires wouldn't really help...or just forget about it and buy some cheap cables/chains from Bi-Mart like I did! =)
  • Stephen-- nope, I'm in Redmond and didn't get a thing but a co-worker in Edmonds said he had 6" on the ground this morning. *sheesh* ...but let me know how those Wintersports perform in the snow. I've heard that both the Dunlops and the Bizzaks wear quite rapidly compared with the Alpins. Have you heard that?

    Brian-- Yeah! You too, eh? ...man, you're bringing back some good memories. I did a lot of "stuff" on the Yakima too in addition to fishing ...shooting the rapids, partying, etc. :P But yeah, I remember one winter when there was snow on the streets (not just on the ground) all winter long. I had an old ChevyII Nova that I had snows on the rear and made it around Ellensburg okay (not many hills of course and the snow was the dry stuff unlike the stuff we get in the Puget Sound area) but I did spin out near Easton on I-90 during a blizzard one afternoon trying to get to Seattle. That was during my invicible youth... trying to drive on compact ice at 60 MPH *lol*
    I have heard though that the modern snow tires now have special compounds and siping (?) that help quite a bit in ice ...no? And do cable chains fit on an old A4? ...seems like the strut tower clearance is pretty slim.

    --'rocco
  • All that is really is they slice and dice up the rubber tread of the tires. Supposedly it's supposed to improve the grip of the tires on snow.

    Just got back from the dealer.
    If you ever see a dolphin gray A4 zipping around the East side or near Sandpoint....prolly my wife or me in there! :)

    *sigh*.....my 2000 maxima looks like crap now.
    however, ....my maxima can beat any stock A4 , 1.8 or 3.0......in a straight line. Nobody argue with me on this point. It's the only thing my car has that's better than the A4. You take that away, and I'll be left with a car that's inferior in any and every way. So shhhhh! My maxima is faster in a straight line. End of discussion! :)
  • The current issue of Car & Driver features a 3.0 frontrack with the Multitronic transmission, and they recorded times of 7.0 seconds from 0-60 and 15.5 @91mph in the quarter. Quite frankly I'd be surprised if your Maxima could beat these numbers.
  • barresa62barresa62 Posts: 1,379
    don't rain on the poor man's Maxima's performance. My god, he even begged you not to. Have you no heart man! :-)

    Stephen, not even going there w/my WRX wagon. :-)
  • kk13kk13 Posts: 30
    These are the 2 sets of tires that come on the 17" sport wheels. Which ones do you have? I looked them both up on Tire Rack and the continentals are listed as Ultra High Performance and the Dunlaps are Ultra High Performance All Season which means there is a got of compromise for occasional snow.

    I know many people that do not have snow tires and don't have a problem in Seattle, although they don't take their cars to the snow and stay home on the days when there is a lot of snow.

    I am not planning to get snow tires and will either brave the snow when it comes or just stay at home. Not justified for me for the 1-2 days where they would come in handy.
  • There's 3 sets of tires that can come with your 17" wheels.
    Dunlop SP 9090
    Continental Sport Contact 2
    Michelin Pilot Primacy

    Mine came with the Michelins.
    Which one did you get?
  • the dunlop is listed on tirerack as max performance.

    the contintental as ultra high performance

    and the michelin as grand touring.

    hmm..
  • lauk0dglauk0dg Posts: 563
    mainly because they are Ultra High Perf yet still qualify as all-season tires. I talked to a chicago S4 owner who ran SP5000's and he reported no problems in the winter. Personally I'm just going to run the stock 15" all-seasons till the winter's over, and then maybe shop for some 17" rims and put on SP5000's as my new tires. They will go thru the next winter and if they hold up alright, I can just sell my 15" rims.

    Billy
  • WarpDrive could you please give me a break down of your invoice for the arm control repair?

    I never go to the dealer to fix my cars. With my old cars I always went to an independent mechanic and they did a good job for a lower price too

    I'm a 2k 323Coupe BMW owner and I find that to do a break job in my car cost me the same as a my old Honda Civic. The original break pad for a BMW cost the same as for the civic ($49) and installation labor is the same too. Synthetic oil change for my civic was $45 and now for the BMW is $45 too.

    The reason I'm reading this board is because I'm planning to get a new A4 with sport package for my girlfriend I would love to get her a 325 sedan but the new A4 is a very nice car too and the price is lower. I don't think the A4 would be much expensive to keep after the first 50k miles.

    I don't think [non-permissible content removed] cars are more reliable than German cars any more.

    Aaron
  • Am holding off till January (till I pay off my xmas bills). It's a common repair judging by posts on Audiworld.com and many people report paying $600-$1000 USD on the repair after warranty. So my $1100 Cdn (about $700 USD) is in line with the fair cost. The labour is actually a very small part of it, it's the dealer price of the control arms that hurt. So getting the arms repaired somewhere else ain't going to be much cheaper since I still need the OEM parts. Control arm repair is a common complaint among earlier A4's. But fortunately for most people, it fell under the warranty repair period. I have low mileage on my car so I'm outta luck. It's just inherent in the design of the control arm (they've actually refined the bushing design five times from what I've heard). I wonder if they have addressed this in the redesign (they better have!)

    As to whether Japanese cars are more reliable, I think they still are more reliable, at least for the under 8 year average ownership that I keep my cars. The difference is not that great but my personal experience with my previous VW and Audi has been different than Honda, Mazda, and Nissan. From my casual nonscientific observation, BMW's tend to be a bit more reliable than Audis also. Consumer Reports always seem to rate Audi high for the first few years, but their reliability rating plummets after three years as more data comes in.

    I personally wouldn't buy another Audi, but I don't necessarily dissaude other people unless they ask me directly. It's still better than buying a boring Toyota or something like that.
  • kk13kk13 Posts: 30
    They are great on the dry and wet. No problem with the tiny amount of snow we got a few days ago. We'll see how they do with a little more. I plan to get the Dunlops SP5000 when I replace them since I have heard so many good things about them on the AudiWorld forum.
  • Ok folks, I have beem monitoring this board and the VW Jetta BOard and there has been sporadic talk of "allowing the turbo to cool down after use."

    In just a few short paragraphs can someone, anyone tell me what this means in pratical applications and what the negative implications of not allowing it to cool down are on a day-to day basis?

    By the way, I did test drive the 2002 1.8 and my guess is that Audi is fibbing a bit on the HP number. When I asked the sales guy if tiwas 180 HP he fumbled for an answer and basically said "Uh, hmm, well, I've heard that too but can't really say much."

    Anyhow, so, please someone tell me about the turbo cool down issue!

    Thanks,

    Bob
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