Audi A4 2004 and earlier

scirocco22

jay-- huh? ...the 1.8T/5-speed is revving at 4,000 rpm at 60 mph??? Granted, it's gearing is much too low at cruising speeds but mine doesn't even hit 4,000 rpm at 80 mph. It's turning just a shade under 4,000 rpm @ 80 rpm ...maybe 3,850 rpm @ 80 mph?

Although we are quickly becoming the minority, there are a few of us here who participate on this forum as well as others on other boards who still love the 1.8T. As those who are familiar with my posts can attest, I'm probably one of the most ardent advocate of the 1.8T engine. To risk boring everyone, I won't again list all my reasons.

John-- Depending on where you are located, $1,500 over invoice is very reasonable. You have to remember that Audis have no holdback so you probably won't be able to acquire one at anywhere near invoice or below as you may be able to with some domestic or Japanese manufacturer's vehicles which might have a 3% or more holdback. For instance, Volkswagens have a 2% holdback (of the base MSRP) so you'll notice that the price over invoice you'd pay for a VW will be much less than it would for an Audi.

In my neck of the woods, $1,500 over invoice would be considered a pretty good deal. If you go back and read my posts of a year and a half ago, we in the NW pay one of the highest prices for Audis than anywhere else in the nation. Even the Edmunds' TMV for an A4 1.8T quattro is more than $1,700 over invoice; which indicates that the "average" buyer is paying over $1,700 above invoice.

Now if you are talking about a leftover 2002, then $1,500 over invoice may be a bit too much. Dealerships are getting added incentives from Audi to sell any remaining 2002s. But if you were referring to making a purchase of a new 2003, then the figures you quote are right in the ballpark (if not to be considered a pretty good deal) for this time of year, IMO.

And yes, the VR6 is one sweet engine. I've been a fan of that engine for a long time. However, the 1.8T has also won many awards for its technology and believe it or not, seems to be more trouble free.

--'rocco

mikeg123

To 4193,
One other thought is that the Audi dealer, didn't feel as though they could sell that car without much discounts, since the 2003's are coming out now. This could be why they auctioned it quick sell vs, having it in inventory. Oh course, the dealer selling quickly could also spell something else. But if the car is still under warranty, they still need to service it. Check car facts (get assurances) and ask them to lower the price, if you can get under $26K it may be worth it.

Was this car in Colorado?

mikos

Thanks "h".. I didn't know about the absence of holdbacks on Audis.. makes sense then. The VW hold back is good to know.. I knew there was one but unclear about how much.

scirocco22

John-- sure, you bet! ...btw, Edmunds lists the holdback amount for any new vehicle (or vehicle manufacturer). Take a look at the page which I have linked below for a complete definition and detailed description of dealer holdback and a list of each manufacturer's holdback. I was mistaken in my earlier post: it appears that no manufacturer gives more than 3% back to the dealer.

Click here for Edmunds' definition of holdback and list of holdback amount by each manufacturer

Keep us posted on what you decide to do ...good luck!

--'rocco

scirocco22

Just to add to the above post: even though it appears that 3% is the maximum holdback amount, dealers often receive other incentives from the manufacturer which give them more "profit margin" than is apparent to the consumer.

--'rocco

bodydouble

I have to admit I've been a big devotee of Japanese cars, mainly Honda products, since I started to drive (quite a few moons ago). However, as others have mentioned on this thread, Japanese cars have become rather bland and worst of all, reliability/build quality appear to be slipping. So I've been perusing some of the Euro offerings. I absolutely love the 330Ci but fully optioned it is very pricey, plus I have some concerns over the RWD in wet/snowy climes. I have never really considered an Audi due mainly to the poor reputation.

However, my recent research seems to indicate that the A4 is a real class contender in terms of performance, looks, content and value. There is much about the the A4 (and Audi in general) that I don't know but I have a few initial questions for all the regulars here:

1. I don't think there is a "Audi Problems" or "A4 Problems" thread on TH. This is kinda surprising given the brand's reputation. So would it be accurate to say the Audi reliability reputation is more myth than fact?

2. I have heard from more than a couple of people that their Audis rattle like a bucket of nails. What's the general consensus on this issue? A rattly car would drive me nuts as I am rather obsessive on this issue.

3. Does the A4 have a history of tranny failure since many seem to list transmission as a major worry for out-of-warranty repairs?

4. Is the security system on the post-'01 A4 identical to the pre-'02? I understand the key features that the pre-'02 had included immobilizer, interior motion sensor, auto-relock,
audible "beep(s)" for arm and disarming. Is a siren and battery backup part of the system? Are the trunk and hood protected as well?

5. Still on the subject of security system, I recall reading on audiworld.com that the system could be disarmed if someone smashes a window and reach in to unlock the door using the lock tabs. Can anyone confirm if that is true? If so, it would appear to be a point of vulnerability. Also it appears that on the '03 there is no longer a flashing LED on the passenger side. I wonder why Audi would do that? Wouldn't it be difficult to see the LED on the driver side in daylight if you were standing on the other side of the car?

6. On the '03 premium leather is an option on the 3.0. It appears the standard "regular" leather only covers the part you sit on. So is the leather option on the '02 equivalent to the '03 premium leather?

7. How would the A4 rate in terms of interior sound level? Comparable to Honda, or Toyota, or Lexus?

Sorry for the lengthy post and Thank You in advance for any advice or insight you guys can offer.

dtwleungnyc

I have an A6 Avant, not A4, but let me try to answer some of the questions for you.

1) Most mainstream cars are pretty reliable nowaday. BUT, if you want to drive something that will last you 10+ years with 100k+ trouble free miles, I still think a Toyota or Honda is your best bets.

2) My A6 is as solid as a rock, no rattles at all.

3) The reason most people worry about the transmission after warranty expires is this. Its a closed system, you cannot check the fluid level, plus, its a quattro drive train, thus more complicated than your regular transmission/drive train.

4) Don't know.

5) Don't know.

6) Don't know.

7) Most European cars, not just Audi will have more road/engine noise than your comparable Japanese cars. That doesn't mean the car is noisy, it just conveying the road feel and the car's condition to the driver. Japanese cars tend to isolate the driver from the sensation of "driving". But to each his own I guess.

scirocco22

bodydouble-- Yikes! ...it sounds like you're describing a Yugo! The descriptions of "poor reputation" and "rattle like a bucket of nails" really concern me.

Firstly: do Audis really have that poor of a reputation? Maybe that goes back to the "unintended acceleration" days. Modern Audis, IMO, do not have the negative reputation they once did. Even back in the "unintended acceleration" days, I believe Audis were given a bad rap because of that one particular problem ...if it was in fact "ever" a problem. Even in those days, I was impressed with Audi's technology, engineering and features. I've always been a great fan of quattro; even in the early days.

As you can gather from past posts on this forum as well as the current discussion taking place in the A6 forum, Audis definitely do not have the reputation for reliability as do some of the Japanese manufacturer's vehicles. But Audi's reputation for reliability isn't nearly as bad as many auto manufacturer's. In fact, the car I currently own (a 2001.5 A4 1.8T quattro) actually has a "better than average" reliability rating from Consumer Reports and it's on their recommended list. The 1.8T engine in its application in the VAG model line has at least an "average" reliability rating from the same publication. Example: the B5 platform Passat (same platform as the pre-'02 A4s) with the 1.8T engine has at least an "average" reliability rating from CR. Many domestic models made by American manufacturers fail to come even close to "average."

Response to 1. So yes, I truly believe it is "more myth than fact" as to Audi's reputation.

Response to 2. Well, although I do have two minor interior rattles, it's nothing close to my having to describe the car as rattling "like a bucket of nails." I too am obsessive and those who ride with me can't even hear the rattles I'm trying to describe to them. They tell me that it is one of the quietest interiors that they have ridden in. I believe my "rattles" are fixable ...one being in the driver's door lock button (only can hear it occasionally) and another in the right B-pillar which I hear only when going over a jarring bump in the road. One other in the left rear door panel seems to have been fixed when I mentioned it to the dealer on the first service. The others will hopefully be fixed on the next service visit.

Response to 3. I don't know of many tranny failures so I'll let others comment on that one.

Response to 4. My comments only relate to my car: 2001.5s have no engine imobilizer. It does have an interior motion sensor. "Auto-relock" or engagement of door looks at about 8 mph is an "adjustable" function which any dealer can perform or you can do yourself with a VAG-tool. You can disable the "chirp" when disarming by using a sequence of steps on your remote. The audible part of the system is a repeated horn honking sound which I believe doesn't have any kind of battery back-up. I don't believe it has trunk or engine compartment protection.

Response to 5. I can't comment on the "window smashing" scenario. But I don't believe the door can be unlocked using the lock tabs for they are flush with the door panel when locked. Why did Audi discontinue the flashing LED on the passenger side?: I don't know ...my suspicion would be cost savings. Volkswagens have always had the flashing LED on the driver's door lock button only.

Response to 6. Unless someone can answer this before I have the chance to research it, I'll look it up and get back to you.

Response to 7. I believe the interior sound level in the A4 is superior to the Honda, Toyota and maybe even the Lexus. Hondas especially are noted for their road noise. And as you've probably heard from many sources, Audi interior fit and finish is second to none. All Audi models have this reputation of first rate interior fit and finish. The one "problem" which Audis do have a reputation for is wind noise. Wind noise is especially prominent in my car but the dealer claims it is normal. I've heard A6 and allroad owners commenting on excessive wind noise at higher speeds also. This isn't necessarily a funcion of bad door seals but more of some flaw in aerodynamics when it comes to the design of either the A-pillar or exterior mirror mountings (?).

Final thought: If you like the A4's styling, features, value, etc., then don't let the reliability issues hold you back. Audis are driver's cars and are a blast to drive. As we've said before, if all you want is an appliance to get you from point A to point B for an economical ownership experience, then buy a Japanese car. If you want a car that is definitely skewed towards driving pleasure; one that puts a smile on your face everytime you hop behind the wheel, please strongly consider an Audi.

--'rocco

mikos

hey there "double"

I used to be a devote Honda fan.. however in 2000 I went VW. Bought a 2000 GLX VR6. Best damn car ever.. fast and solid as a rock.. They say once u go German..u never go back. It's so true! Then, just when I thought driving couldn't be anymore fun..VW came out with a 200HP VR6 6Speed that is SCARY fast and the 2002 A4s arrived! I just recently drove a 2003 A4 1.8T..sport suspension.. leather.. ahhhhhhhh... damn it's nice.. enjoyed more than my neighbor's 3-Series..

If you want a car that drives you.. go Japanese.. but if you want a car that needs to be driven.. the choice will be easy! Ever played Gran Turismo on PS2? It's like that everyday on the way to work!

dl7265

After 2 lengthy post, right before hitting "post" i was knocked off,,,

anyways ill subcome to a short post to save me some grief,

rocco: i understand the 1.8T power seat is a delayed entry , so there is still hope.

one more try,
DL

bodydouble

The "bucket of nails" comment was actually someone else's quote, but I suspect he may have exaggerated slightly (or maybe a lot).

scirocco: are you sure about the lack of engine immobilizer. I didn't see it listed on the audi site so I thought I would ask. But I would be really surprised if there isn't one. Afterall, even entry-level Civics and Corollas come standard with this feature now. Maybe no one steals cars in Germany?

uwscarguy

Let me take you back to the mid 1980's...

When I was 15, my dad got a 1985 Audi 5000S. Yes, it was one of those "this-car-just-killed-my-6-children-and-my-dog" Audis. And it had that wonderful 3 speed Auto. I STILL remember CR rating Audi during those dark days during and after the 60Mins episode. The 4000 series consistently rec'd above avg dots while the 5000 was warned about as unreliable (black dots). The car we had was kept for 3 years and 50k+ miles (no record by any means, but still...) and only suffered a power failure in the rear window (stuck in down position during Hurricane Gloria).

Needless to say, the car never unintentionally accelerated (although back in high school I kinda wish it had just as certain high school bullies were crossing the street - but that's a different story). Anyway, as a stupid 16 yr old I tried to replicate the acceleration problem. No luck. With my foot on the brake and the car in neutral, I floored that mighty, fire-breathing 2.22 liter 5cylinder 110hp engine and dropped that tranny into drive. The car didn't budge. Duh!!!!! The car had no muscle! From that day on, I was completely cynical of the automotive press, journalists, etc. Unintended acceleration indeed; the car barely had INTENDED acceleration!!!!

As with many of my posts, there really is not much of a point here other than to share a silly but true story.

That said, my '98 Subie 2.5RS (by any standard, a much less sophisticated car than my A6) rattled very annoyingly by 23k whereas my Audi is still vaultish [sic] (one level below vaultlike) at 21k.

So I believe nothing I read; I have adopted the Markcincinnati mantra of added protection if driving beyond warranty. On my next Audi I'll practice what I preach.

scirocco22

Peter-- *rolls on the floor laughing* ...funny story and delightful post!

bodydouble-- hmmmm, yeah, I have to think that the 2003 A4 now has the engine immobilzer. It's always been listed on Edmunds as a feautre on the A4 even going back to a year and a half ago when I was shopping so I was disappointed when I discovered that my car didn't have it. From the comments on the AudiWorld A4 forum at the time, they left it out on the 2001 model for from what I could gather, previous model years did have it. Even the 2001 Passats and Jettas had it. I have to believe they put it back on the 2002 and 2003 models. Can any E8 owners confirm?

As for the leather seat issue on the 3.0: From what I could find, the 2002 leather seating option actually cost more than the 2003 3.0 leather seats. Both are full leather. The only partial "leather seating surfaces only" (vinyl sides and seat backs) leather option is for the 2003 1.8T only. I don't know if that answered your question ...or maybe I didn't understand your question in the first place. *laughs*

DL-- Really? Where did you hear that? I hope it's right. As I said before, I thought that was a misprint on Edmunds' part for I didn't see any mention of it on the AudiUSA web site. That's been a complaint about the 1.8T for years. A power driver's seat will definitely be welcomed.

--'rocco

vocus

Don't do it! I can tell you from recently going through Lemon Law crap (they wouldn't buy my car back, BTW) that they wouldn't buy a car back just for one little replaceable part like that. He is lying, big time.

I have a 2002 Jetta that was riddled with rattles (I know it sounds funny). I tried to get VW to take it back, no luck. They finally fixed it right, but still. They told me the rattles would not lower the value of the car, and they would not take it back. So the car that they bought back must have serious problems. Just say NO!

vocus

From what I have heard here and on VW Vortex, there was a bad batch of coils in the beginning of the 2002 production. People on Vortex are blowing coils left and right, all 1.8T.

My friend has a 1.8T Jetta, and his coils blew as well. The dealer told him about this "bad batch" thing.

So that's what I think it is, since alot of people seem to be having trouble with them now.

vocus

I have a question.

Has anyone gone from a Jetta to an A4? I decided to get the Jetta and save some money, simply because the drivetrain is about the same between the two. But what about the handling, interior room, and all that stuff? Also, how is fuel economy on the automatic 1.8T? Mine is 22-24mpg average, for pretty hard driving, on the Jetta 1.8T with Tiptronic.

I was just curious. I have never test driven an A4, never made it to the dealer to do so in time (they closed for business on a Saturday).

Thanks for any input.

scirocco22

Paul--

That's it right there... rattles. I have several friends who have Jettas and that's one of the big differences between my A4 and their Jettas ...interior rattles. Maybe not quite rattling "like a bucket of nails" but their Jettas have substantially more interior rattles than my A4.

Yes, coils have been a problem for certain 2002 A4s. Have there been any problems on pre-'02 1.8Ts?

I test drove a Jetta before a bought my B5 A4 and the ride was far superior in the A4, IMO. Although the drivetrain might be similar, they are not built on the same platform. And the Jetta has its 1.8T transversely mounted where the B5 is longitudinal.

Although the interior room is also similar, the main thing which sold me on the A4 was quattro. I love the handling characteristics that it brings.

My mpg is also similar to yours. My car is slightly heavier so your mpg and perfomance may be a bit better.

Good points on the buyback issue, btw.

--'rocco

vocus

Some people on Vortex have had problems with 2001s. But I think it's AWW and AWP engines (later 01, and 02s).

Forgot about the engine being longitudinal vs. transverse. Passat is the same way. Also, I thought the ride would be different.

I love the color of the long term A4 that Edmunds has. I saw one on the road a couple of months ago, and it's soooo nice!

lauk0dg

Let's see if I can chip in my 2 cents on your questions:

1. I think the reputation has improved a lot since the dark days. Although it's still classified as a tiny notch under M-B's and BMWs when it comes to reputation, it's the highest in my list (of course).

2. NO rattles whatsoever in my 2001.5 A4 1.8T with 25,100 miles. Definitely quieter than the 2003 Maxima SE I rented for work couple of weeks ago. That car got major problems with insulating wind noise at the sunroof. I got so annoyed I had to close the sun shield to get rid of 60% of the wind noise. In my A4 I can open up the shield and have minimal or no wind noise.

3. Didn't hear too much mention about the tranny on Audiworld.com except the usual 2nd and 3rd gear grinding. I got some 2nd gear grinding but once you take it easy and don't force it in when the synchros say no, it's fine.

4. I think there's no engine immobilizer in any B5 A4's.....or maybe I'm wrong, Rocco. They didn't just skip out Model Yr 01. Yes the B6 A4's since 02 have engine immobilizers in them.

5. Can't comment on that.....haven't tried smashing the window yet :>

6. Dunno.

7. It's definitely quieter than a Camry or an Accord. Is the A4 quieter than a Lexus? That I can't comment. But just like dtw said, German cars tend to feed back the road conditions to you rather than isolating everything. Now I just went to the Mercedes-Benz E-motion event test driving the 03 E500 and E320 and looks like they completely isolated everything. Too bad.

To be honest, this A4 is one hell of a car. I love it a lot, and touch wood it hasn't given me too many troubles. Just a blown Bose speaker (warranty fix and replace), sticky trunk lid shocks (warranty fix and replace) and radio that didn't work for a day (fix myself). However, IF the maintenance costs get out of hand after the warranty is up, it will be a sad day but it has to go. But again, once you drive a German car, it's hard to go back to Japanese (no American car thanks). So I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Don't let these issues bother you though if you are making a decision on getting an Audi. I do not regret a bit.

Billy

lauk0dg

I drove my friend's GTI 1.8T with 180hp and it rattles quite a bit too. The "feel" of the 1.8T engine in the GTI is totally different than that in the A4. We both agreed the tuning is different and of course the weight is different, and the engine orientation is different. Both the GTI and the A4 deliver their respective images to their target audience, i.e. the boy-racer sport vs the luxury sport images. It is really up to you to decide which one you are more comfortable in situations like weekday driving to work and weekend driving for fun.

Billy

vocus

I have never driven an A4 yet. Like I said, I was going to but never made it to the dealership. Then I have been too busy to drive one. Also, I don't want a dealer to think I am going to buy one, as I just got a Jetta about a year ago. I don't wanna put them on or anything.

It seems VWs have problems with rattles. They are still very nice cars though. I know they share ECUs between 1.8Ts though, because I had my ECU out of my 1.8T Jetta and the Audi symbol is on it. Alot of stuff under my hood says Audi actually.

bodydouble

Regarding the "smashed window" scenario, unless I misinterpreted what they were saying, I think they implied that if someone sets off the alarm, it can be disarmed (silenced) by unlocking it using the inside door locks. Now I'm not sure what's the best way of testing out this theory. Maybe someone can arm their A4 with the window open. Then reach in to set off the motion sensor, then unlock it using the inside lock mechanism. Most, if not all, other factory alarms requires that one of buttons on the remote to be pressed to turn off a blaring alarm, so it's kind of hard to imagine Audi to have this oversight.

Also, does anyone know definitively whether the security system includes arming the trunk and hood. I'm fairly certain the trunk is included since the remote can unlock the trunk.

vocus

Arm your alarm with the windows down. Pull on the inside handle. You will find out then.

I tried this with my VW, and it doesn't work. You have to hit "lock" on the remote for the alarm to stop going off.

And the hood and trunk is included as well. I set my alarm with the hood open before, and do it all the time with the trunk open. I don't get the flashing light or "chirp" until everything is closed up.

shehzad

Thanks for the buyback information guys. In one of the messages, someone asked where I saw it, and I saw it at a VW dealership near Worchester, Mass. As much as I hate to not get it, you all make so much sense--and I think you're right in that it's just not worth it. Funny though--the dealer called me back a day or two later telling me that it was just in for some problem with the engine coils, and just brought in once, and because of this, Audi bought it back. He insisted that an individual that buys a 30,000 dollar car is expecting quite a bit from the car and if he's not happy, Audi is going to make sure that he's happy---b/c Audi's Audi. I mentioned to him that we have an S8 in the family, and when we first purchased it, it had to be taken in to the dealership 3 times in the first month for some problem or the other, and not once did Audi ever mention that they might be willing to buy it back (never asked either). Anyhow, the dealer then tells me that the S8's a completely different car, and b/c it's so expensive, Audi would be less likely to buy it back and Audi would want every chance to fix it first. So, his argument basically amounted to---someone that pays 30grand for a car is going to be more discerning and easily annoyed than someone who pays almost 80grand for a car, and Audi would much rather make the person that pays 30grand happy quickly than the person that pays 80 grand. When I told him that I wasn't going to purchase it, in part b/c I felt that it was odd for Audi buyback a car in the first place, and also b/c his argument made no sense, he got frustrated and told me that he was going to sell it regardless b/c other, more knowledgeable individuals would jump on the great deal they were about to get. I wished him the best, and hung up. Thank you again for all of your help. Your insights were truly, invaluable---Shehzad

tiredofmanual

Based on the salespersons reaction and lame excuses, I think you probably saved yourself from making a big mistake.

bodydouble

I don't have an A4 yet. I'm comtemplating joining the ranks of the German car owners after contributing to the profit margin of Honda for years!

Re: Hood and trunk, you mean you can "pre-arm" your car with the trunk or hood open, and then when you close them the car will arm without pressing on the remote's lock button again? Do Audi/VW also have auto relock? ie. if you accidentally unlock, will it relock after xx seconds without any door opening.

affy

on the web-site www.audicanada.ca the new price for the new a4 has drop, there are lesser options and more standards. I have make my mind i am buying a new A4.

The recent messages does concern me, because Audi does have a tendacy of "bad reliability," my uncle has one A6; he has problem on his sunroof on the A6 and can never be repair by the audi dealer.
Now he is driving a golf which is more stable.

andys120

for 2 reasons:

1) My '98 Avant has over 87k on it and

2) I live on a dirt road in semi-rural NH and it gets pretty bad at certain times of the year.

and FUHGEDABOUDIT!

I haven't heard a single rattle out of either my '98 Avant or the A4 sedan I had before it.

These are great cars so stop worrying about minor issues and enjoy the one true bargain in German-built motoring.

BTW, you couldn't possibly unlock an A4 by pulling up on the lock knob, they're perfectly flush with the door when locked. Sounds like someone's feeding you a lot of BS about these cars.

bodydouble

I know what you mean. Equipped the way I want, the '03 is about $1000 CDN less than the '02. I'm uncertain whether I want the option 17" wheels. May depend on seeing the stock wheels in person and see if I like them.

BTW, you're giving up on your '02 C-class already?

bodydouble

That's reassuring to hear for us aspiring German car owners. Perhaps Audi has been given an unwarranted bad rap? You know how bad news tends to spread faster and wider than good news, especially when it comes to cars.

The part about the door handle I got from audiworld.com. But mind you, I can't recall 100% if they were talking about the A4. I thought they were, but maybe they were talking about another Audi or the older generation A4 (the B5?).

dl7265

i heard it from a friend who, heard it from a friend who , well hes a Audi salesman but his info has allways been good....

ive never wanted a power seat, however i will admit to stalling the A4 on a test drive, the clutch seems longer and the shifter a longer throw than the 3er im used to, never stalled a 3er yet, but i do admit it was operator error...

DL

affy

Yes I am giving up my C-240, the car was great, the car itself is very safe I 've been in an accident with it. However, Mercedes-Benz service has certainly gotten worse. I had phoned the MB bodyshop serveral times, on problems found after repairing from the crashed. Again and again they ignored our calls, which frustrate me. In addition, I had never owned an audi before, i want to know if my exprience with the A4 is a good or bad one. As mention on my last msg. i am concern with Audi's reliability problems, therefore i am very curios on how an audi would perform, under moi.

New C320 4 matic roughly $60, 000 cdn = New Audi A4 3.0 rough $ 51, 000 cdn

Audi is also better price

scirocco22

Jeff-- Good choice! *thumbs up*

DL-- Ah, well I hope you're right. As I said, I'd hope that Audi would listen to the consumer for many people have been asking for a power seat on the 1.8T for a long time. Thanks for the information.

bodydouble-- Okay, I had to check my owner's manual but I am able to answer some but not all of your questions.

Yes, the trunk and hood are protected by the system. Here are the parts of the vehicle which are monitored and protected by the alarm system:

engine compartment

luggage compartment

doors

factory installed radio

passenger compartment

ignition

Also, I misunderstood your question about "re-lock." I thought you meant the auto lock when moving at 8 mph but you meant the re-lock function of the locking/anti-theft system. Yes, there is a re-lock function. "After unlocking the vehicle, you have 60 seconds to open a door or the rear lid. If you wait longer than 60 seconds, the vehicle will automatically lock itself once again. The alarm system will be reactivated."

Now, going back to the "window smashing scenario," what may have been discussed on the AudiWorld thread you were referring to, could have been the switch that disables the motion detection system. On the B5, there is a button on the left B-pillar that disactivates the system. So smashing a window out to get to that switch, may have been the topic which was being discussed.(?) But as vocus stated, I believe the alarm itself can be disabled by using the remote. When I have time, I'll search the AudiWorld forums again to see if I can find that thread you have been referring to.

Shehzad-- Thanks for posting your story. I found it truly interesting. I agree with brian, sounds like you made the right decision. I still have my doubts that Audi would voluntarily buy back the vehicle without the customer putting up a really good fight and insisting that it be bought back. I think that any manufacturer would want to try to do all they can to satisfy the customer by fixing the car they have originally purchased before offering to buy it back ...a buyback would be their last resort and would only be done through the insistant persistence of the customer, IMO.

Billy-- I thought I read that on one of the threads last year when I was researching it; that some of the previous model years before the 2001s had the immobilizer. I remember posting here that my salesman even thought it had one and told me so when I took delivery. It wasn't until I got it home and looked closer at the key and found it had no chip, that I started hunting around on AudiWorld for some information. I'll take a look over there again when I get the chance.

--'rocco

dtwleungnyc

What you guys are talking about in regard to the alarm system in the A4 is this. If my memory serves me correctly. There is/was a spring inside the driver's door that's connected to the door handle and alarm system. What happened was this. If you use a think metal strip, you can slip it inside the window bushing and slide it across to trip the door lock open. While doing this, it will turn off the alarm system also. There's a easy rememdy to this problem, just take out that spring. It will not affect the alarm system or the operation of the door handle/lock.

dtwleungnyc

If you search more on this topic in Audiworld, you will find a lot of discussion regarding this problem.

http://forums.audiworld.com/a4/msgs/377047.phtml

bodydouble

dtwleung: removing that spring must affect somthing. Couldn't really find the discusssion on the link you provided. Guess I'd have to search audiworld some more. Do you know if this problem only exist on the B5?

dtwleungnyc

I don't know, actually, you should also check the "do it yourself" section at Audiworld. Somebody put together a tutorial on how to do it.

dtwleungnyc

That exact article is called the "Door Pin Mod", but I think it had been taken off the web page due to security reason.

ktm1

This has probably already been asked, but I'm curious as to why the A4 1.8T is only 170hp when the cheaper VW Jetta 1.8T is 180hp. I know that this is essentially the same engine since the two manufacturers are cousins. Hope someone has the answer, cause I've been wondering about this for some time.

bodydouble

Have you priced out the BMW 325xi? Equipped comparably to the A4 3.0 the prices are pretty close. I have not driven either one yet so I can't say whether the performance of the Audi 3.0 would be significantly better. BMW tend to have bigger horses! And also I suppose some will argue that the quattro is a superior AWD system to the Bimmer's. But I was kinda surprised that the prices were so close.

audibon

Hello all!
Just wanted to update everyone on my service experience at the dealer where something was stolen out of my car. There was no follow up from the owner or the service dept. to my letter. So, I can take that as a message that they don't want me back for future service or when I purchase my next Audi. A shame actually since they are closer to my house.
As a side note my new job is in custom home audio/video installations and I deal with customers on a daily basis. I have been doing this for the past month and can tell you that for the most part if you make an effort to please people, most will go out of their way to make you happy either with a tip or phone call to our store to compliment you on a job well done. If the Dealer said nothing could be done but at least apologized for what happened I could deal with it, but to ignore me like nothing happened is wrong in my view and I will never buy anything from them and they will not get referrals from me. In fact, if I run into other owners that have bought from that dealer I will try and get them to switch because my original dealer is that much better. Food for thought if any dealers are reading the postings on this board. Safe motoring.
Brian

andys120

but last I looked a 325xi cost more than an A4 3.0. That's US prices of course, could be different in Canada.

scirocco22

Andy-- Yeah, you're right. Remember when I did a comparison a few months ago on this board? I ended up getting chewed-out by a poster for not staying on topic ...so I won't attempt to do it again. All I'll say is that IMHO, the A4 3.0 seems to be a better value ...more bang for the buck.

Brian-- Yeah, that's really too bad. I can't understand businesses which don't treat their customers fairly. It just seems like bad business practice. As you say, it seems like they'd loose potential future customers at a geometric rate; for as you stated: not only won't you be back but you won't refer people to that business and any potential new customers they could have garnered from your referrals can't refer more customers and on and on and on.

That brings up another discussion we had over a year ago ...will your original dealer treat you better than one where you didn't buy your car? Will you ultimately get better customer service from your original dealer? I say yes but some disagreed with me saying that since they are making money even when doing Audi Advantage or warranty work, they want you satisfied and would welcome your return business. But also, as you said, you'd think they'd want to treat you right so when you are ready to buy your next Audi, you'd consider them instead of going back to the original dealer.

I'm in that sort of dilemma. I bought my car from a small town dealership almost 100 miles away when the closest dealer is less than three miles from my house. I keep wondering whether I should take it there for service or not. To tell you the truth, I'm a little scared to. I don't know whether it's because I think they'd have resentment that I didn't buy my car from them and not treat me as if I was one of "their" customers or not. But so far, I've been making the trip to have my car servcied at my originating dealer who has treated me very well so far.

bodydouble-- I'd almost go as far to say that most will argue that quattro is better than the BMW awd. quattro is legendary and has been through many revisions through the years and has been extolled frequently in the automotive press.

Kioko-- I know... there's been many discussions on this subject on many message boards. Some say it's some marketing strategy on the part of VW. Doesn't the Passat still have the 170 hp rating for its 1.8T? I don't know... I don't quite understand all the theories being thrown around pertaining to this. Although the torque specs and the peak hp rpm stats are different for the Jetta 1.8T, we do know that the Passat/A4 1.8T has been rumored to be closer the the 180 hp rating. I know I read a post somewhere that someone had their stock A4 1.8T dyno'd and it came out to something like 178.9 hp (?).

--'rocco

audibon

'Rocco-Nice to see you back on the board after some time off. :-) I was in the same spot you are albeit my distances are not as great but my selling dealer is further away than the dealer I tried for service. I also wanted to see if there actually was a difference in the "QUALITY" of service given. There is a difference in my case and as I am sure you would agree there shouldn't be. The biggest selling point of McDonald's was if you ordered a Big Mac in D.C. it would taste the same as one ordered in Chicago. Audi and others need to realize but don't seem to care that they should be providing a seamless service experience. One that is personal and caring with attention to detail but the only difference being the physical aspect of the dealership (location and building appearance) and the names and faces that you deal with in service. It is really up to you but you might want to try the closer dealership for one service visit to check them out. Sort of a test drive of the dealership itself. It may help make your decision on the purchase of your next vehicle that much easier. Good luck.
Brian

markcincinnati

As close to comparably equipped as the on-line configurators would allow, here is what comes up:

BMW 330xi with manual transmission and all options on web site - $45,470

Audi 3.0 quattro with manual transmission and all options as on BMW plus On*Star $40,074 (on star option is $699, to be apples and apples, take $699 off the Audi price).

Yes it may be true that the BMW with the 325 on the trunk lid may be the same price as the Audi 3.0 -- but that is not "comparable" -- the BMW, with less content is over $5,300 less money.

This does not mean that the Audi or the BMW is "better" -- but this is too great a price difference to ignore. If you want a 325 with all wheel drive, great, fine etc. -- but in all price fairness you must compare it with a 3.0 liter Audi -- when you add the 30 to the 3 series BMW and keep the option list the same, the difference is just about $6000 (more for the BMW).

dl7265

AWD systems , is there a thread that discusses the differences of say, Audi, BMW, Jaguar, ect ???

the jag says it uses a planetary system,thats is simple and light weight.

In regards to the BMW value i think most that argue about the ED option, that save big bucks. Does Audi plan to offer this program ever ??

DL

scirocco22

Okay, I goofed ...maybe I meant to say 330xi ...whatever the case, I did a lot of configuring the last time and still got chewed out. :P

DL-- Maybe you should start one.*heh* And I'll let Mark comment on ED as I have no idea if it will ever be offred and probably wouldn't take advantage of it even if it were --well, in the near future, at least.

Brian-- Thanx! ...good to see you posting again too.

I agree completely with what you are saying. But it has to start from the corporate level. Their philosophy has to be directed at customer satisfaction and stressed at every level of the heirarchy ...but nowhere more importantly than at the level where the customer has actual contact and that is the dealership itself. Audi doesn't seem to stress this philosphy at all. I think Infiniti has the right idea. From all that I've heard about their customer service policies, they really do make an attempt (or requirement) to see that their dealerships strive for complete customer satisfaction. I think this will pay off in the future. No matter how good the product, IMO, the consumer will choose an alternative if treated shabbily once the purchase is made.

It was just the opposite stuation with my Saburu: I recently took it to a dealer for a gauge to be fixed under warranty and it wasn't the dealer where I bought the vehicle. They treated me superbly and replaced the gauge with no problems at all. Before that, the dealer where I bought the car gave me a hassle about it telling me that the gauge was functioning properly and they weren't going to do anything about it. Obviously, the original dealership won't be getting any more of my business or referrals. I just don't understand this kind of business philosopy or lack thereof ...they're just cutting their own throats, aren't they?

--'rocco

scirocco22

Brian-- Another thing I was going to mention: The "Subaru corporate heads" are evidently requiring all U.S. Subaru dealers to eventually have not only a similar "look" --physical appearance-- but offer a consistent array of features and standardized services. One example is a stone tower to be placed somethere in the front facia of the building which will permit a large Subaru logo to be placed. I suspect that the corporate headquarters will give them both time and resources to help each individual dealership to accomplish the changeover. I read about this somewhere but can't remember where at the moment. This philosopy appears to fall into the same line of thinking as you were alluding to. I too, think it is a good idea.

C'mon Audi USA, give us consistent good service and a consistent array of services no matter which dealership we choose to conduct business with.

--'rocco

vocus

On Friday, I tested my 2002 Jetta with this alarm theory. I set the alarm with the driver's window down, and then opened the door. I tried to use the door panel switch to unlock all the doors, didn't stop the alarm from going off. The only way to stop mine is to hit "unlock" on the remote. So there you have it.

Also, my alarm does have relock on it too. I don't know if the A4's does, as I have never driven one. I am sure it would, if the Jetta has it.

HP issues: I think the A4 only has 170hp because the engine in it is longitudinal vs. transverse for the Jetta. I say this, because that's the only difference between the 2 engines.

vocus

To the guy who didn't get the "buyback" A4, great job! The dealer was obviously lying his butt off about the car. It had some serious issues, and probably a "lemon law" title, had you checked into it. Go to another dealer and get something else! Good luck.

Also, the coil problem seems to be happening to alot of A4s, GTIs, and 1.8T engines in general. I know someone who had the problem with his Jetta, and was told "a bad batch" of coils made it into some 1.8T engines. Alot of people on VWVortex have had failures too. So this might be true. I hope Audi is ready to buy back all those A4s, per that dealer's remarks!!!