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Honda Civic vs. Hyundai Elantra



  • nikecarnikecar Posts: 460
    gee where is it that I've said I've never been in one? point it to me please. Do I own one? no. why? because I've been in them and don't like them. I could care less what other's think. You nor they pay off my car loan. and neither do the magazine editors. the styling is ugly IMO, and to be honest with you the best thing I thought was the price. but until those cars get a proven track record only a few will ever get them. sorry.
  • jkobtyjkobty Posts: 99
    I think it is funny. I laughed my head off checking the Elantra forum. Stalling problems
    and transmission problems and poor gas mileage
    18mpg! Too bad you think Elantra is better than
    Nubira still. Daewoo's are the only Korean cars
    worth buying. Check the Nubira forum, you will not
    find complaints. Keep hold of your warranty papers now you might just get to use them a lot.
    As I said before, the difference is that Daewoo
    plays it safe and uses proven technology from
    very reputable suppliers. They make less profit
    on their cars, but at least they keep their
  • liufeiliufei Posts: 201
    What transmission problem? Are you referring the
    stalling is due to transmission problem? I have not
    experience that at all, so I can't comment on that
    one. Maybe elantra00 knows about it a bit more.

    That poor gas mileage is because the Elantra is
    used for short trips (1-2 miles) all the time
    through traffic jam (not to mention having a
    brother that doesnt keep good track of fuel &
    mileage ^_^). I stated later that we took the
    Elantra for a combine city and highway drive and
    gets 32mpg (auto). Dont think its that bad
    especially since its only has around 1400 miles in
    it, so its still around break-in time. There are
    some post in the Nubira forum that stated they have
    poor mileage as well (22 mpg and 220 miles on a
    full tank)

    Nah, I dont think Elantra is better than Nubira,
    but I do think they offer better value for the
    similar features you get. And yes, the warranty is
    extra nice as well. Besides, it does have a bit
    better resale value (albeit too little to have any
    significant effect).
  • elantra00elantra00 Posts: 225
    the stalling is due to low idling in all elantras, manual and auto. i noticed that my elantra idles at about 500 rpms. (manual transmission). never stalled on me once cause its in neutral when i stop. however, i had the same problem with my old car, an 86 toyota corolla. it was auto and stalled on me more and more until i did something about it. cranked up the idle to 1000 rpms. ran fine then on. jkobty, maybe if you opened your eyes while you read, you would see that the car was still in its "break in" period and thats why it was due to the gas milage. as well as the stalling with the automatic trans. the manuals were fine. so don't jump to conclusions. know your facts, then talk.
  • jkobtyjkobty Posts: 99
    just having fun :). The Elantra should serve
    you well. You can't be all that bad, at least
    you were smart enough not to get an overpriced
    Honda or Toyota.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,350
    Once again, jkobty.

    I know this is hard to understand, but...

    It's the total cost of ownership that really determines price in the long run.

    If today's "bargain" is worth next to nothing in five years then perhaps the Honda or Toyota wasn't "overpriced" at all!
  • jkobtyjkobty Posts: 99
    to the price of a used Honda or Toyota in 5 years
    when you can buy a brand new Daewoo
    for the same money?
    Do I hear resale values down the drain. you got it.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,350
    Are Daewoos that cheap? don't "have" anything...sorry!

    I just know how impossibly hard Korean cars are to sell in the used car market. You probably don't like to hear or admit it, but it's a fact.

    Ask anyone in the business.

    Of course, things could change I guess.
  • george00george00 Posts: 81
    I cannot believe that isellhondas is still harping on resale when even he has admitted he was overdoing it. I feel constrained to respond, though I know I am probably wasting my time, because I really would like this forum to compare the Elantra with the Civic and perhaps other competitive cars in meaningful ways. Anyway, here goes:
    1. Who is having trouble selling Hyundais - Honda dealers like isellhondas? It is true that I do not see any used Hyundais for sale on the local Honda dealer's lot - perhaps Hyundai owners for some reason don't want to trade for Hondas. Hyundai dealers are having no trouble at all selling their cars. According to a dealer here who also sells Mazdas, Dodges, and other makes, the Elantra is their best selling car by far - and that is confirmed by the appearance of more and more of them on the streets and in the parking lots. I put my key in the door of someone else's car just the other day.
    2. Resale value is a complex equation, not just a matter of comparing purchase price and resale price. First, if you borrow the purchase money, you will pay interest on the higher amount every year of the loan; and if you pay cash, you will lose the interest or other investment income on that extra money forever. Second, in most places you pay sales tax and perhaps other taxes based upon the price of the car - that tax is not recoverable upon resale. Third, in many places, there is an annual tax based upon the depreciated value of the car, which is based upon a statutory formula, not supposed resale value - and those taxes are not recoverable upon resale. Fourth, insurance premiums are naturally more expensive for a more expensive car, as the insurance company's exposure in case of accident or theft is that much higher - another higher annual expenditure. Fifth, all cars have problems, even the very best. I have spent several thousand dollars over the years keeping my 1990 Honda Accord going. Hyundai's much longer warranties - 5 years bumper-to-bumper, 10 years on the powertrain - will likely save you significant sums in repair work.
    3. Extra taxes at the beginning, extra taxes every year, lost interest on the extra money (the higher purchase price as well as the higher taxes), higher insurance premiums every year, uncovered repair costs - it is likely, indeed virtually certain, that a Civic will cost you more than an Elantra in the long run, as well as in the short run. That doesn't mean you shouldn't buy a Civic. Perhaps it's worth the extra money to you. But to claim it's cheaper is economic nonsense.
    4. Now it would be nice to compare seating comfort in the two cars, transmission and engine performance, sound systems, quiet, driving enjoyment - those things which determine what a car is worth to us now. Isn't what this forum is supposed to be about?
  • liufeiliufei Posts: 201
    So the stalling is due to low idling? I noticed this Elantra idle around 850 rpm, so I should be ok. Thanks for the info.

    Like george00 said, the total cost of ownership is the most important one. But do consider that civic cost more to begin with than an elantra, so its natural they have a higher resale value.

    Excellent explanation of the resale value and other factor that contribute to total cost of ownership. Do you have any link that maybe can show that Elantra does cost less in the long run than a civic?

    Getting back to the subject, here's my opinion regarding the 2 car:
    Elantra win this one, unless the Civic Si engine is brought in (which cost even more).
    Similar, both offer a degree of road noise. Found the Elantra is a bit more comfortable due to Civic low seating position.
    Honda usually has a rougher transmission, and I found the Elantra transmission quite smooth.
    Sound System:
    no comment, i'm not an audio expert
    Driving enjoyment:
    Elantra is much better in an open highway, just press the pedal and go. Again, Civic Si WILL beat it hand down in this section though.
    Honda and Toyota usually excel in this section. Fit & finish lean to Honda.

    Elantra probably offer the best value for your money right now. No other car in the compact class can offer the same features without costing at least $1500 or more.
  • elantra00elantra00 Posts: 225
    i agree with liufei 100%. Everything he said i agree with. with resale value, i bought my car for college, something new, peace of mind, cheap and fun; since i will be commuting there. when i get my first "real" job after 4 years, then i am going to buy another car, not trade in the elantra. for the first time ever, isellhondas said something that made sense about the resale value. it is low on the elantra. so, with the car still being covered under warranty after 4 years still good for another 6, why get rid of it? i ll will just use it as a daily driver (the way the engine was designed, it should have no problem going 150,000 miles + ) and get something i really want, if the numbers are right, a brand new BMW 323Ci or if that is out of reach, a honda accord coupe (i will not buy it from isellhondas :) ) that will be the fun car to take out on a nice day. whichever it is, its going to be 5 spd manual. my point is that this is why people buy hyundais, to keep till they are did. so, if this is the case, who gives a [non-permissible content removed] about resale value? not me. just my story of it.
  • elantra00elantra00 Posts: 225
    "to keep till they are "dead", not did." my bad.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,350
    I bring up the resale issue.

    This is an Elantra vs. Civic forum isn't it?

    I'm not the one who started the forum but will step in when it gets one sided.

    Someone said that Hondas are "overpriced".

    This simply isn't true when the Total Costs of Ownership are considered!

    If you prefer Elantras over Civics, great!

    Just don't buy one for the wrong reasons.
  • george00george00 Posts: 81
    isellhondas: You continue to insist that the Civic costs less than the Elantra "when the Total Costs of Ownership are considered!" But you offer no figures whatsoever in support of that claim. This after all is not a matter of opinion, such as whether you prefer the styling of one car over the other. When you say that one commodity, a car or any other, costs more to own than another, whether in the short or the long run, you are not stating an opinion but are referring to what you claim is a financial fact. Such a fact can only be based upon actual figures. In this instance, your claim, if it is factually based, can only be based on the following factors:
    1. The purchase price of an Elantra and a comparably equipped Civic;
    2. Typical finance charges on the difference, that is on the amount by which the purchase price of the Civic exceeds that of the Elantra;
    3. Typical sales tax on that difference;
    4. Typical annual ad valorum tax on that difference, adjusted for statutory depreciation;
    5. Typical insurance premiums for each car;
    6. Typical repair bills for each car over, say, 5 years and 10 years, of course taking account of Hyundai's much longer warranties;
    7. Lost interest on the additional costs after the loan has been repaid, or where cash is paid - at, say, the average yield of a T-bill, which is currently around 4% net per year for someone in the 15% tax bracket (rich people are not agonizing over whether to buy a Civic or an Elantra, much less which might cost more over a long period of ownership).
    8. Finally, all of the above can be reduced by an estimate, based upon experience to date, of the resale value of each of the cars after 5 years and 10 years - this will of course favor the Civic, as Honda has enjoyed a better reputation than Hyundai in the past, though that may well be changing.

    I strongly suspect that this analysis will show that the Elantra is cheaper than the Civic after 5 years, much cheaper after 10. If it shows otherwise, then I will of course stand corrected. But it is unfair to just repeat over and over again, like a mantra, that the Civic costs less in the long run than the Elantra without revealing the actual figures demonstrating that such is the case. Please now support your claim or, in simple fairness, withdraw it.
  • groove518groove518 Posts: 7
    I purchased a 5-speed Elantra about 2 weeks ago and, so far, I could not be happier. Initial quality has been perfect. I spent several weeks researching my decision. Final contenders were the Focus ZX3 and Honda Civic HX, but I test drove others as well (2 other Civic models, Mazda, Toyota, and Nissan).

    IMO the Elantra is far and away the best buy in this class. Hyundai wasn't even on my radar screen at first, but when I saw a few positive references in the press I thought, geez, at that price it's worth taking a look.

    This car has some real zip (--and my last car was the beloved, much heralded Nissan Sentra SE-R, so I have some experience with top performance in this class), it handles well, comes well-equipped, fantastic warranty... I'm not saying it's on the same level as the SE-R (not quite), but I find it tremendously satisfying to find this much car for so little money.

    I have great respect for Honda and the Civic (--it's the car I thought I'd be buying this time), and I fully expect them to come up to speed (pun intended) with their new version in 2001. But in the meantime, I challenge anyone to test drive the Elantra against comparable Civic models (EX and Si excluded since they're a helluva lot more expensive than the $11,300 I paid for my Elantra) and not admit that the Hyundai absolutely blows the Civics away. It's not even close. Looks to me like Hyundai's making the right moves, becoming a real player at last.
  • george00george00 Posts: 81
    I went through much the same comparison testing, as I expect most people do. I liked the Focus, but the few that were available here were very expensive and in undesirable colors (dark is not suitable to desert conditions). Then I read of recalls, various problems typical of new models, and kept looking. The Corolla was astonishingly poorly equipped in the base models - no cruise control, no tachometer, no folding rear seat, manual sideview mirrors which did not bend, etc. That pretty much narrowed things down to the Civic and the Elantra. As we already have an Accord (1990) which we like, I started by assuming I would prefer the Civic. I was therefore surprised when I found it underpowered and uncomfortable. I was even more surprised when I liked the Elantra much more. There is one problem with both cars, however - and others as expensive as the Infiniti G20. When you adjust the height of the driver's seat-bottom, the seat-back does not move with it. The result is that as you raise or lower the seat, the configuration of the seat-back, and in particular the placement of the lumbar support, changes. I thought this was worse in the Civic than in the Elantra, but I may have been wrong, as I am finding it impossible to find a comfortable position in the Elantra. The seat-back is too hard and the incurving top cuts painfully into my shoulder blades. This doesn't happen right away; it takes an hour or more, which is why I didn't discover it during the test-drive. The Civic hurt my back right away. I have tried every kind of cushion and cover without success. I am now going to take the car to a professional upholsterer and hope he does not completely destroy it. But it's either that or an untimely trade-in, which would be particularly depressing as I really like the way the Elantra drives, both around town and on the highways - at 75 mph, the speed limit here, the Civic (and even more the CR-V) seemed to run out of breath, while the Elantra still has plenty of strength left, and that's with the A/C always running. Moreover, the cheapest car I have found with a fully adjustable power seat, one in which the back moves up and down with the seat, is an Accord EX at $23,000 - exactly double what I paid for the Elantra. I sure hope the upholsterer can help.
  • groove518groove518 Posts: 7
    Well, I can appreciate what you're saying. Few things are more destructive to one's enjoyment of the driving experience than an uncomfortable seat.

    For me, the seat initial seat position was perfect. I really didn't have to adjust anything, except tilt the steering wheel a little higher. A couple of days after getting the car, I thought I'd just fool around w/ adjusting the seat height, lumbar, and angle. See how the controls work and maybe see if I can improve upon perfect, I guess.

    However I quickly learned, as you found out, that the adjustments are all independent of each other and the controls don't inspire confidence that you'll be able to replicate a previous position. So I quickly stopped.

    As you say, this is not a design flaw isolated to the Elantra, but it's still something one would hope might be addressed. I'm sorry to hear your adjustments have ended up putting you in such pain and spoiling your fun. I hope that continued noodling with the controls finally lead you to seat-position nirvana.
  • george00george00 Posts: 81
    The upholsterer could do nothing to make the seat more comfortable for me. Indeed, everything he tried made matters worse. He said this was common with seat problems, and that many new cars - especially those with molded seats - have them, which was little consolation to me. I'll keep fooling with the adjustments for a while, and perhaps try some new cushions or covers, but if I can't find a fix soon, I'm afraid I won't be driving this Elantra - which I really like in every other respect - much longer. Anybody who has any suggestions about making the driver's seat more comfortable, please post them soon. Thanks.
  • george00george00 Posts: 81
    The upholsterer could do nothing to make the seat more comfortable for me. Indeed, everything he tried made matters worse. He said this was common with seat problems, and that many new cars - especially those with molded seats - have them, which was little consolation to me. I'll keep fooling with the adjustments for a while, and perhaps try some new cushions or covers, but if I can't find a fix soon, I'm afraid I won't be driving this Elantra - which I really like in every other respect - much longer. Anybody who has any suggestions about making the driver's seat more comfortable, please post them soon. Thanks.
  • george00george00 Posts: 81
    Sorry about the double posting; don't know how that happened.
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