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Honda Civic vs. Hyundai Elantra

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Comments

  • bri70bri70 Posts: 147
    isell_ mitsus1, with all due respect I think that view is becoming dated. I'm thinking about purchasing a second Hyundai and have been looking at Kelly's Blue Book retail prices.

    I paid 12.5K for my 2000 Elantra GLS. Kelly's list a 1999 Elantra GLS from 10,700 to 14,330. In fact when I compare the exact car that I bought, plug in the mileage I expect to do in a year (15K), I get a suggested retail value of $12,050. The 2000 Elantra depreciated all of $450 from the 1999 model. Not bad at all. Worse than average resale value I think is fast becoming another obsolete view of Hyundai.
  • scrufscruf Posts: 1
    The credibility of the maker is truly @ issue here. Honda builds a wonderful (if souless) automobile, and has for some time. It has not always been that way.
    Hyundai build an unforgetably cheap car a few years back, and this has had an effect on thier image (rightfully).
    Yet, the current models, if not market leaders, appear to be "ready for prime time".
    Let me bring you back to '73-75. A Japanese motorcycle maker was beginning its importation of cars to the US. It quickly bacame known that these cars were practicaly undriveable while cold. This was bad for that fledgling automaker, now the #2 imported vehicle, of course this is Honda. Those vehicles were pretty undesirable used, too.
    Is the Hyundai less desirable than the Honda? Right now, YES. But it is also 10% less, and if I had the choice of a stripped Civic, or an Elantra w/ AC, power goodies, and the warranty, well, I'd stop to think...
  • taurus2taurus2 Posts: 63
    Which car is more reliable and will last longer with no problems? A Hyundai Elantra or Honda Civic?
  • umchand2umchand2 Posts: 7
    I own both and they both have their share of problems. However, the civic has had a few major problems. Thank goodness for warranties.
    The elantra i just got and it had some minor problems. Just treat them right and they'll last atleast a decade
  • andes11andes11 Posts: 62
    I get a good chuckle when these people tout Honda's "proven" reliability.
    The thing is that Elantra is as reliable as Honda Civic.
    In fact, early 90s Civic's AIS reliability rating is lower than the Elantra's and its reliability has been widely exaggerated by the owners over the years.
  • andes: I would like you to find ANYTHING that backs up your statement that the Elantra is just as reliable as a Civic. I don't think you will find anything that comes even remotely close to saying that.

    And to the person who said resale value was just as good for the Elantra...yeah right. I checked the trade for a 99 Elantra with 15k in excellent condition with all options (auto, roof, alloys, power pack, etc) and the trade was $10,---, a comparable Civic was worth $16,---.... you do the math.
  • dryfusdryfus Posts: 20
    Isellmitsu says:

    "I would like you to find ANYTHING that
    backs up your statement that the Elantra is just as reliable as a Civic. I don't think you will find anything that comes even remotely close to saying that."


    Looks like you have to eat your words.
  • bill11770bill11770 Posts: 29
    anyone that pays 16,000 for a used civic has some screws loose. You can get a new one for that price.

    isell_mitsus1.... don't you think that those numbers are a little incorrect?... say one is wholesale (elantra) and the other is retail (civic).

    The way i see it is that those numbers seemed to be doctored up....
  • bri70bri70 Posts: 147
    isell_mitsus1 said:

    "And to the person who said resale value was just
    as good for the Elantra...yeah right. I checked
    the trade for a 99 Elantra with 15k in excellent
    condition with all options (auto, roof, alloys,
    power pack, etc) and the trade was $10,---, a
    comparable Civic was worth $16,---.... you do the
    math."

    Wait a minute. I did not say that the resale value of an Elantra is just as good. What I said was that it is becoming average. I do believe that the Civic does hold its resale value better than the Elantra. I would not buy an economy car with the idea of selling it down the road. So this is not an issue with me. Even so, the Elantra's below average resale value is becoming fiction.

    The numbers you stated, are they for Civic SI? What service did you use to check, Edmunds? Kelly's? As it has already been pointed out; who would buy a used Civic for 16K?
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,350
    Forget what the "book" say. Just try to sell one, or worse yet, get a Hyundai dealer to pay you anywhere near wholesale book for one.

    They are "back of book" cars...big time!

    I am NOT saying they are *bad* cars. I am saying that they are an absolute DOG on the used car market. Few people will buy one and they sell for thousands BELOW book!

    It's not fiction but pure fact! Who knows, maybe someday that could change?

    Andes links were amusing. I have NO IDEA how this rating system happened. In my experience, the 91-93 Civics were bulletproof reliable, and really no worse than the current models.

    I'm sure the opinion of another publication would differ. The current issue of Consumer's Reports give 1/2 red dots for Civic Engines in the years 92-93, and full red dots for 94's and newer.

    So, I guess they disagree with Car Point.

    And Consumer's Reports didn't even bother to rate Hyundai. Almost like they don't even exhist!

    Probably not enough on the road for a sampling?
  • andes11andes11 Posts: 62
    AIS reliability ratings are based on sophisticated statistical analyses of actual repair data gathered from automotive technicians. These numbers are cold, hard facts.
    They are not based on someone's opinion or experience.
    If you keep talking about opinions, then I have
    to question your intelligence.
    Consumer Reports do not rate reliability of cars.
    They just publish the results of subscriber survey. Ask them why a rating system is not in place. They'll tell you that it's not fair to
    rate cars reliability without actual repair data.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,350
    Favor your opinion, then you like them. Consumer's Reports must get these ratings from somewhere! Sorry you don't like them.

    And, I stand by my statement that 1991-1993 Civic engines are VERY reliable. That's why I was surprised by the data you provided.

    And, yes, that's my opinion which is based on quite a bit of front line experience.
  • bri70bri70 Posts: 147
    For a vehicle with supposedly very poor reliablility, there are plenty of pre-90 Hyundai EXCELS out there on the road. That is why I am wary of people's opinions or reputations of automobiles. I would take AIS's statisical sampling over Consumer Reports voluntary user surveys any day.
  • dryfusdryfus Posts: 20
    Thanks for the Car Point link stats on reliability ratings. It certainly has been valuable. Now there is the same "all Korean cars are no good" debate in the Daewoo Leganza 3 forum, in the last couple of days. And Hyundais are being mentioned quite a bit. I urge anyone who wants get in on the hot debate that's going on there, just go to Daewoo Leganza forum and click forward to the last couple of days.

    It's March 22 today.
  • Okay... let's read the fine print of these links. If you just go by initial impressions you may think the Hyundai is just as reliable. But if you look at the problems that the Civic had they are all insignificant and relatively inexpensive to fix compared to the car's value. The Hyundai on the other hand has costly repairs that cost more than the car is worth.

    Example: 1991-1993 Honda Civic's had problems with the distributor, main relay, and fuel ignitor. If you have all three of these fixed it comes up to a total of $200. The Hyundai on the other hand exhibited problems with premature timing belt failure, engine valves (as a result of the timing belt) and the ECU. These items together total approx $2,000. You do the math. Let's see would I rather have a car that is worth $4,000 that I have to do $200 worth of repairs on or would I rather have a car that is worth $600 and do $2,000 worth of repairs... I don't know.. I may have to consult my psychic on this one.

    Which brings up resale. You doubt my numbers here ya go. All of these are verifiable at www.kbb.com and www.carsdirect.com.

    2000 Honda Civic EX with automatic transmission
    www.carsdirect.com price = $16,341
    www.kbb.com resale = $15,235
    (kbb for 1999 15k in exc. condition)
    $1,106 depreciation = 7% value drop/93% retained value

    2000 Elantra GLS w/ automatic tranny and equivalent EX Civic options
    www.carsdirect.com price = $13,264
    www.kbb.com resale = $10,440
    (kbb for 1999 15k in excellent condition)
    $2,824 depreciation = 21% drop/79% retained value

    So thanks for offering but I will be eating my baked chicken and cherry cheesecake, not my words.
  • sirradsirrad Posts: 7
    The nice thing about having a 91-93 Civic with a dead engine is that the Teg GSR engine or the Si B16A engine just bolts in place, to get a real sweet kick butt machine. Try asking for an implant from any Hyundai sibling.
  • andes11andes11 Posts: 62
    I see you're trying hard to distort the facts.
    Where does the report say the Elantra timing belts fail prematurely? It says it's a periodic problem.
    The reason the belt failures are described as periodic failure is that the indy shop techs who don't know how to tension the belt properly keep changing them until they decide to ask for help.

    Here's one example of a smart tech who asked fellow techs about the correct timing-belt installation procedure in advance on the iATN mailing list.
    ==================================================
    1993 Hyundai Elantra 1.6 L

    Trans: Automatic
    Mileage: 130,000 mi
    VIN: KMHJF22R6RU55003X

    Misc Data: engine family 1.6GJVGAEA
    Affected Item: Timing belts

    ___________________________FIX:___________________

    I learned,from Paul Baldassarre, administrator, tech.assistance line,of Hyundai Motor America, and several others, that some early production (before 6/8/92)1.6's came without ballance shafts.After that they have them & the proceedure is the same as the 1.8's. I mention the 1.8 because Mitchell,Autodata,& possibly others don't give info. on the ballance shafts of any year 1.6! Because the rear shaft is
    driven by the oil pump sprocket,and not at a 1 to 1 ratio,it is not enough to simply line up the index mark.Remove the 14mm hex bolt found on block, behind tail end of compressor(or starter), and ensure that a #2 phillips screwdriver will insert aprox. 60mm while indexed.Be aware that two special tools are specified for tensioning the
    main t-belt.All of this is in Mitchell & Autodata but you need to look at text for 1.8! I also believe that their labor times are incorrect for the 1.6.The ballance shafts makes it worth a few extra tenths,and more if you change the (2 extra)seals!Thanks to everyone who responded! There are some sharp Hyundai guys out there!

    ____________________ORIGINAL MESSAGE:__________

    Dear fellow members, Am doing t-belts on engine that has complaint of vibration & has had belts replaced before. I remember doing a similar Mitsubishi engine in the past & learned about the indexing hole/pin arrangement to ensure proper timing of rear ballance shaft. My concern this time is that Mitchell only refers to doing this on the 1.8 engine,not the 1.6! I am hoping that information is correct( because the A.C. compressor is mounted low on the back of the block ,where I would guess the inspection hole would be). Don't want to find out the hard way that this information is wrong! Can anyone confirm the proceedure on the 1.6? I have checked the archives,but only found reference to other engines. Thanks greatly,in advance,
    Sincerely, xxx xxxxxxxxx

    xxxxxx xxxxxxxxx
    xxxxxx@hotmail.com
    Technician
    Colonial Foreign Car Service, Inc.
    Williamsburg, Virginia, USA

    iATN Sponsoring Member
    ==================================================

    About the ECU and ISC motor in early 90s Elantras
    ,do you know they were made by Mitsubishi Electric?
    Ask an experienced factory-trained tech in your dealership how common the failures of these two parts are in old Mitsubishis.

    92-93 Civics got 4 out of 5 in the reliability rating and you can't change the number by saying the problems are insignificant.
    You say distributor, main relay and oxygen sensor failures are insignificant, but it's your personal, uneducated opinion that nobody cares to listen and doesn't hold water when the ratings are based on statistical analyses of the largest repair database in the nation.
    And lastly, why are you quoting car prices?
    I'm not buying a car from you. :P
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