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Dodge Caravan/Chrysler Voyager

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  • mandm5mandm5 Posts: 3
    Purchased a T&C EX model this week. The three Chrysler dealers in my area each received delivery of one EX this past weekend. After considering a T&C LX w/ a 25K convenience package, the EX was too good to pass up. Even without any incentives and rebates, I still felt the EX was more for the money with the additional Power liftgate, 3.8L engine, alumunim wheels, Michelin touring tires, traction control, center console, and split 50/50 rear bench seat. All 3 dealers agreed to sell the vehicle at invoice; it was the dealer that finally knocked a few extra hundred dollars off the price that made the sale -- otd $26,043. Why would we pay $28K otd for the LX with less options? Haven't had it long enough give a satisfaction rating, by the way, what's up with these dealer ratings that the salesman keeps groveling for, says he needs 100%. If they would just do their job, they wouldn't have to beg!
  • keygokeygo Posts: 38
    I just ordered a Town and Country LXi AWD today. I have never been able to drive one. I read with interest the posting about the vibrations. How bad are they? Does the vibration disappear? Is the drive different than the FWD?
  • rolfe2rolfe2 Posts: 81
    How bad are the AWD "vibrations"? If you're talking about the resonance at 2100 rpm -- it depends on your sensitivity. In my case, I consider it an annoyance, but not so bad that I regret my purchase decision.

    Another owner with whom I communicate finds it so unacceptable that he is getting rid of the vehicle.

    That's why I'm recommending (for those able) that you test drive one.

    Does it "disappear?" Nope. In fact, at 8500 miles I'm now hearing a secondary noise at the same rpm. This secondary noise I'd call a rattle -- it sounds a bit like engine ping, but it seems more like something that's gotten loose in the engine compartment, probably due to the vibration.

    --rolfe.
  • fly6869fly6869 Posts: 17
    I want an EX T&C with side air bags but cannot locate one. Have they started shipping them or are they waiting for some odd reason? Also want Inferno red color. Any help??
  • keygokeygo Posts: 38
    Thanks for the information. I have been unable to find an AWD to test drive. I hate the thought of spending $30,000 without a test drive but...

    Is this vibration/resonance at 2100 rpm problem in all the AWD?

    Thanks
  • mandm5mandm5 Posts: 3
    Of the 3 EX's that I drove before I made my purchase, none had the side air bag. Since they don't protect the head anyway, we decided it was an option we could live without. For some reason, most of the dealers are getting EX's in the patriot blue color, although one said he was expecting delivery of an inferno red unit next. BTW, inferno red is an extra $200 (ret) option and the side airbag is $390 (ret) -- the only two options available.
  • I called 5 dealers in the tri-state area and only one had an EX which I saw on Thursday (in Patriot Blue) and a side air bag.

    It had a nice cloth interior -- I could easily live without the leather!

    I was really hoping the climate control would be auto-temp, but it wasn't -- although it was still 3 zone.

    Dealer wanted $26,800 and said this was about $500 over invoice and plus an advertising fee (I think invoice is $25, 797 with side air bags and destination).

    I read on this board a post about speculation that the prices on the limited and Lxi would have to be adjusted when the EX showed up on the lots.

    I figure there is a difference of about $2700 (after rebate) between an EX and a non-loaded Lxi. With leather, an extra power door, home-link, and auto-climate, its a little bit of a stretch but not that munch

    A Limited is about $4500 more and I think there are people who would pay for that.

    Still, we can always hope for more rebates.
  • rolfe2rolfe2 Posts: 81
    >> Is this vibration/resonance at 2100 rpm problem in all the AWD?

    Yes. I say that based on driving several new ones, communicating by email with other owners who have also test driven several, and talking with my dealership.

    I did understand from your first post that you were unable to test-drive one. I'd suggest that you consider doing a thorough eval after yours comes in and before you make a final commitment.

    As described earlier, find a hill (doesn't have to be steep, just long). Accelerate and hold 2100 rpm and listen/feel. This will be at 30-35 mph. Quickly modulate the pedal slightly to hear the noise come and go. It's a low-frequency droning sound.

    You might have someone listen from the 2nd row seat -- I've heard, but can't confirm, that the noise may be more pronounced there.

    Also notice that at 2000 and below you won't hear any noise; above 2100 it tapers off more gradually. Then repeat the same tests on a FWD if you want to hear the contrast -- you won't hear the same thing.

    --rolfe.
  • The list is around $29,000, and the invoice is about 26,500. But most dealers around here have $5500-6K off list, bringing the price to below "invoice." Should I still be able to negotiate lower, and if so, how much room is left?
  • keygokeygo Posts: 38
    I was able to find an AWD Town and Country to test drive. I wasn't able to notice anything. Unfortunately, I didn't get Rolfe's excellent advice until I got home. I will keep my fingers crossed and hope that is the case with the vehicle I ordered. The deal said he wasn't had any of his customers complain of the vibration at 2100 rpm (I know, famous last words... "I know nothing").

    The van I drove was the Town and Country Limited. It was beautiful. I can only hope that I like the LXi nearly as much.
  • fly6869fly6869 Posts: 17
    Purchased Inferno red Ex {no side air bags} yesterday and love it. Final price was $26801 out the door. Used friends and family coupon and got $400 recent graduate discount. Numerous dealers around sw Ohio had EX's. One had Inferno red with side air bags but wouldn't except coupon. Took businesss else where. I'm now wondering if drivers side sliding door can be made automatic {lights flash when button for that door is pressed on key fob} and if overhead computer can have more options added.
  • howie99mnhowie99mn Posts: 20
    I got a t&c lx with casette/cd 6 speakers, h package, power seats for 25.4k out the door.

    When I went to pick up it had a paint imperfection. Dealer said that all new chrysler on the lot would also have one?

    Does any know if this is true? HE said that he would look for another perfect car without paint problem?
  • One other comment to add to Rolfe's information above is that the 'harshness' and volume of the resonance seem to be temperature dependent. In climates where the high temperatures are routinely in the 20's or lower, you may find the noise to be particularly loud. After you drive the van for approximately 30 miles (or 30-45 minutes continually), some of the harshness will diminish even with cold ambient temps, however, it never goes away.

    Now that spring in MN is approaching with daily highs in the 30-38 degree range, the harsh resonant characteristic of my van is somewhat reduced. However since early January until this past week, I have been living with a resonant drone (especially at 65-68 MPH) that few would find acceptable for a luxury minivan.

    Personally, I like the T&C minivans. I have driven many AWDs to try and find one without this characteristic. I haven't been successful. Per my numerous discussions with Chrysler, all the AWDs currently do this. My intent is merely to let potential AWD owners know what they may be getting into. If you live in a climate with sustained cold winter temperatures, please be aware that the noise you hear in the warmth of spring, may become more pronounced next winter.

    Of course, both the minivans and an individual's personal tolerance, vary greatly. I post this only for awareness to help others avoid possible future 'surprises'.
  • dleung1dleung1 Posts: 10
    Are all regions affected by this fee ?
  • Seriously thinking about a 2001 T&C Limited. Would like the AWD, but these postings raise a concern regarding the 2100 RPM issue. Local dealer said it was due to a wrong tire issue that has been resolved by switching to different factory tires, but I still see active postings on this issue. I'm in NC, so we don't get the cold temps very often. Can anybody comment on the "wrong tires" in any way correcting or lessening this condition?
  • rolfe2rolfe2 Posts: 81
    First of all, I wholeheartedly concur with mnoutdoors' recent post.

    Regarding the effect of tires -- I will give you two reasons why I don't believe tires are an issue. First, the resonance is present with both stock Michelin MX4 tires and Michelin Arctic Alpin snow tires on my vehicle. The only difference is that at 68 or 70 mph (equivalent to 2100 rpm in overdrive), the somewhat higher tire noise of the Alpins tends to mask the resonance. At other speeds (meaning lower gears), the 2100 rpm resonance sounds the same on both sets of tires.

    Second, the resonance is independent of speed (road speed and therefore tire rotational speed). It is only a function of rpm (provided you are putting a load on the engine, as in climbing an incline or accelerating).

    Regarding what your dealer told you, if it were a tire issue that is already solved, I don't' think that District Sales Managers would still be telling folks that Engineering is still investigating with no projected resolution in sight.

    --rolfe.
  • geoduckgeoduck Posts: 52
    Wrong factory tires, huh? That's a good 'un --if only the problem were that easy. Read all of our posts re: the issue; the dealer is slicing you baloney.
    But we do love our AWD and don't find the noise very objectionable. . .it still is a problem though.
  • mojo66mojo66 Posts: 83
    Reading in the March 19 edition of AutoWeek that DC has officially put the 230hp, 3.5L motor for 2001 Chyrsler minivans 'under review' and will not offer it this spring as promised, which I think is Daimler's way of telling us "it's cancelled." With the financial state of the company being what it is right now it apparently can't justify the extra costs involved to offer the 3.5L option.
  • I've driven AWD T&Cs with both 15" Goodyear tires and 16" Michelin All Seasons - there wasn't any appreciable difference.
  • I may be wrong in my #763 message about the lack of auto-temp climate control. Two dealers tell me different things, and Chrysler tells me a third.

    According the Chrysler, the EX uses IR sensors to keep you at the same temperature, but the sliders for temp on the EX don't act like a thermastat.

    So I'm still unclear if the EX has auto temp control or not. Maybe someone who has an EX could let me know?

    Thank You.
  • fly6869fly6869 Posts: 17
    The EX does not have auto temp. controls.
  • bondguybondguy Posts: 20
    TO HOWIE99MN: We got a T&C LXi in bright silver...noticed that the day we got home with it, the paint was shiny but when we ran our hand over the finish, it had a gritty feeling...like their was some sort of "overspray" on it...took it to the dealer's body shop and he told us it was something called "rail dust"...from transporting it on the trains. They did something at the dealer called where they coated it with what they called "mud" and it took care of the problem...this may be what you have. Now the paint is smooth to the touch. Unless, you are talking about an imperfection in the "color" of the finish.
  • bondguybondguy Posts: 20
    Why do "YOU" feel compelled to post on the T&C/Caravan section of messages...you have your Honda "micro-van" with your amazing flip down seat (roadnoise multiplier)...you must be lost..go to the Odyssey section and converse with all your fellow Odd-ys...you can brag to each other how stupidly you paid thousands over the sticker price for your no-featured basic Honda Accord with two extra seats. I think you search this section because you envy others for making the right decison in getting a much better van...the T&C/Dodge...it is the "best" minivan ever!!!
  • aps5aps5 Posts: 43
    Just a note to confirm the 2100 noise is still present on my 2001 awd Lxi, now with almost 7000 miles (I'm catching up fast to others in the group). Interestingly, I did hear it when parked in neutral, on a very cold day. I heard it with the factory tires, and I hear it with my Nokian Hakka Q snow tires, although it is true their hum helps mask the noise. The tire argument is as ridiculous as my dealer's replacement of a "bushing" on the underside, to solve the problem.

    True, the van is fantastic, and otherwise very quiet, except for wind noise. I do drive at high speeds - 70-80, and maybe this is unavoidable. I really think the antenna is at fault, although I will find out soon when I remove the roof cross bars.
  • howie99mnhowie99mn Posts: 20
    Although the Minivans were not Crash tested last night, two otherChrysler cars, the LHS, and Stratus received improved marks of acceptable and good. But we won't no the actual results for the Minivans until later this month?


    Interestingly, the Honda Civic which is a way smaller car outscored almost all vehicles except the luxury Mecedes Benz.


    http://www.dateline.msnbc.com

  • mandm5mandm5 Posts: 3
    The EX does not have auto temp controls, I know, I purchased an EX 3/13/01. By the way, the phone reps at Chrysler do not seem to be any more familiar with the EX than some of the car salesman I had dealt with. Most of the Chrysler salespeople had not even heard of the EX until I told them about it. When I called the Chysler rep to find out if there were options in upholstery fabric in the EX (there are not), he said the EX's weren't available yet -- to which I replied, that's funny, I've driven an EX at three different dealerships! The moral of the story is: nobody knows what they are talking about yet. Go to the Chrysler.com website for a list of features on the EX, and other T&Cs. There is also a side by side comparison with the EX and the Oddysey, but be careful, it is not completely accurate, as I took it to the Honda dealer and went item by item down the list and found several misleading statements. Still bought the EX though, just liked the comfort and interior features better and love the power liftgate, although it hits the garage door when fully open.
  • scannerscanner Posts: 295
    #3. TROLLS!

    #2. Trolls.

    #1. Again... trolls.

    ---

    Hotspur, perhaps you can explain to us why you changed your user name from the one you were previously using named Capecodder? Forgot your password, or do you think you're actually fooling somebody?
  • hayneldanhayneldan Posts: 657
    To find out what you claim to already know dial 1-877-PROVE-IT.
  • jfz219jfz219 Posts: 63
    Bondguy and others make reference to rough paint on newly delivered vans. This is probably rail dust that the van accumulates in transit. There is a nice description of this on Zainobros.com.

    The best way to remove these minuscule pieces of metal is by clay barring the entire car. The special clay is offered by Zaino, McGuires, Magic Clay and other brands. With a little experience, the whole van can be washed and clay barred in about an hour. This is the best preparation for the polish of your choice. You won't believe how smooth and clean the surface will be.

    This technique is great after a winter of snow and grime.
  • First of all, thanks for the positive respones to my 2100 RPM question.

    Can anybody comment on the dealer installed VCP-Monitor (LCD TV on a overhead console) add-on? What is the going dealer price and are there other alternatives on the aftermarket, that match fit and finish?
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