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Ford Taurus/Mercury Sable Sedans Pre-2008

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Comments

  • venus537venus537 Posts: 1,443
    your assertion is not correct. many car makers have different hp ratings for regular and premium fuel. if the engine isn't design for premium fuel in the first place, then you're correct that you will not get increase horsepower (as badgerfan stated).
  • upsetter1upsetter1 Posts: 205
    Yeah it is just manor facelift for 2004. It is the same car except of more squarish grille and new headlamps. Still looks bloated.

    In the past they did new design every year. It was just keeping up with current fashion. Companies that couldn't do it just went out of business like Studebekker and Packard. Why American companies cannot just update style say every two years anymore.
  • regfootballregfootball Posts: 2,166
    yeah, that's a good question. Even the ballyhoed Saturn plastic body panels, which were supposed to allow frequent style changes....well.....they still never updated the car.

    The Taurus has had the same front and rear passenger windows and cpillar windows since the 96 model and i think they have just become all too familiar for buyers.
  • "for a story on HORSEPOWER, i'm looking for a passenger car buyer, NOT AN SUV, VAN OR TRUCK BUYER. and, preferably, someone who bought A NEW VEHICLE in the last 6 months. the kicker here is i want that man or woman to have bought the car based on HP, 200 hp or MORE. the look of the vehicle, tho, is important, of course. but secondary to the kick-butt engine power. i think the wolf in sheep's clothing cars like a v6 ford taurus, nissan altima or the v-6 honda accord could be kind of fun. tho, hey, i'm not going to turn away a dodge viper buyer. but i do think the others would be more interesting."
     
    If you fit the bill and care to share your story, please respond to jfallon@edmunds.com asap, no later than Wednesday, January 29, with your daytime contact info and a bit about your new car.

    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • atcersatcers Posts: 26
    Sorry Venus,

    My assertion IS CORRECT!!!! Please show me proof of your claim about the Honda engine and the variable Hp rating?! While Badgerfan is also partially correct in his counter to my post I was trying to simplify things down to the lowest possible denominator not explain all aspects of engines and octane ratings. Modern fuel management systems will compensate for variances in octane ratings but they are not designed to reduce horsepower numbers depending on the octane of a fuel. They are designed to reduce or limit pre-ignition or "knock" if a lower octane fuel is used on an engine that normally requires a higher octane due to higher compression. If an engine is designed to use a high octane fuel but equipped with a fuel management system that compensates for a lower octane by substantially retarding the timing enough to reduce horsepower then it really SHOULDN'T be using the lower octane gas! Thereby making sculldog33's original comment about increased operating costs correct; and your comparison that the Accord V6 can hang with the 87 octane users not so correct. It would appear that the Accord either really does need 91 octane or doesn't have a 10 hp gain by using it. The following are some interesting links for your reading pleasure.

    http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/autos/octane.htm

    http://www.faqs.org/faqs/autos/gasoline-faq/part3/

    http://www.theserviceadvisor.com/octane.htm
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Posts: 1,564
    Just thought I would let fellow Taurus owners know of a warranty extension notice I recently received in the mail from Ford on my 2000 SES Duratec. The warranty extension adds an additional 2 years/24000 miles on a specific part, the "Tube mounted EGR Pressure Sensor" which is a part in the cars emission control system. The warranty is listed as program number 02M01 and the sensor part number is 9J460.

    There was nothing in the brochure indicating what the symptoms of a failure of this part was, so out of curiosity, I called the "Ford Customer Relationship Center" number. The Customer Service rep checked the database and read me the service information, which somewhat vaguely stated that the "malfunction indicator light" (I think this is the "Service Engine" or "Check Engine" light), and you may "experience hesitation and stall/restart".

    I have not experienced any problems with mine, but if any of you have and did not get this warranty extension notice, you may want to keep this in mind.
  • venus537venus537 Posts: 1,443
    no need to be sorry. honda recommends 87 octane fuel for the accord even though it has a high compression ratio engine that will deliver increased horsepower when using premium fuel. you either verify this or you don't.
  • jpsmithjpsmith Posts: 44
    A few dozen posts back, badgerfan said a Taurus SES with Duratec could be had for $17K or even less with the current $3000 rebate. According to current Edmunds info, Duratec is not available on SES, you have to get an SES Deluxe which has dealer invoice in my region (61821) of $21,119 including destination charge. So, I don't see how one can get a Duratec Taurus for $17K even with the $3000 rebate. Am I missing something, or is the Edmunds info incorrect?

    I'm currently car shopping, and I do agree that Taurus is an excellent value.
  • No, you appear to be correct, as does Edmunds. I did a check at www.forddirect.com, where you can 'build your own' car. The SES Standard can't be ordered with a Duratec, and the SES Deluxe can. Ford has the invoice price listed the same as what you posted.

    It's possible that the original post referred to 2002 Tauruses. If so, either of the 2 possibilities below would allow both of you to be correct:

    1) the '02s were cheaper. Ford no lonnger lists the 2002 models at that website, but perhaps the 2002s were a bit cheaper (though it would have had to be a huge price increase between '02 and '03 to get the '02 price near $17k, since the '03 with rebate has an invoice of $18,119). I doubt, though, that it was that big of an increase--I think Ford held Taurus prices pretty close to the '02 levels.

    2) Ford dropped the Duratec option from the SES Standard from the '03s when it was available on the '02s.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Posts: 1,564
    Here is how I got to that approximate figure.

    When I bought SES in 2000, there was a $1000 rebate going on. For the SES I bought, that had Duratec as an option plus floor mats, at that time the MSRP of the car was $19810+$55 floor mats + $695 Duratec +$600 destination charge, total MSRP was $21160. For this car, the invoice including destination was $18,680. By bargaining hard and including the $1000 rebate at the time, I bought the car for $18K not including tax title and license which varies from state to state. So, without the rebate, I would have paid $320 over invoice

    Now, fast forward to the current model year, yes the option package mix has changed, and you have to buy the SES Deluxe with an MSRP of $22360+$660 shipping for an MSRP of $23020 and an Edmunds invoice of $20459+$660 Shipping=$21119. $21199+$320 over invoice -$3000 rebates=$18439. Ok, maybe I missed the $17k however, the SES Deluxe also has a few more standard features than my 2000 SES, a CD changer and the Duratec included in base price.
      
    If I were you I would shoot for under $18K plus tax, title and license. Others have posted paying $18K for SELs, which have more base features, so I think under $18K is definitely feasible.

    I also have seen recently ads for $500 owner loyalty rebates for current Ford owners, coupled with 0% financing. I do not know if you could get the current $3000 plus another $500 ownere loyalty if you do not finance. I do know that with the weak economy, it is a buyer's market.

    My original $17K estimate may have been based on 2002 prices. Note, you may still find a leftover new 2002 Taurus out there also, which you could bargain very hard on and likely do very well.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Posts: 1,564
    I just jumped over to the Ford dealer web site I bought mine from. They had about 8-10 SES deluxes with MSRP in the mid 23K range, and also had one leftover 2002 still new that had the Duratec. I believe you have lots of options out there, and if you live near in or near a large urban area, you can play the Ford dealer market. Good luck. If you buy, let us know how you did.
    The internet is great to peruse dealer inventory, they even let you view an image of the window sticker.

    Check out the Mercury dealers as well. You might do as well or better getting the Taurus twin Sable, depending on how hungry the dealer is. I prefer the Taurus styling over Sable, but that is just personal preference. Under the skin they are the same car.

    Any others out there that can report what they have paid recently?
  • jaybo4jaybo4 Posts: 8
    I have had several Taurus '87, '96 and now the 2001 Sable. Rode the '87 into the ground. It was smokin and kickin til the end. The '96 is with my daughter at college. Just got the heater core unplugged. Heat works now. All elese is good with the '96..I guess. Now onto the '01 Sable Premium Loaded with everything. Bought in '02 it had 12200 miles on it..have 17500 now..Duratec 200HP motor runs very good. Starts like a rocket ship in this cold temps we have here in Salem,MA. No problems yet. Paid $13500. year old with 12200 mi. Could not touch anything else with this equipment for the price.
  • There are still some new 2002 Sable LS Premiums (loaded)available in the Boston area for $17K. A couple of dealers have them and are advertising at that price. One even includes an extended Ford 5/60k warranty for that price. In addition to the standard LS Prem features, these cars include leather, moonroof, ABS as regional "no additional charge" options. They all seem to be outfitted the same with the MSRP at $23,045. One of the reasons that these dealers can do this is Ford has extended the $4k rebate for 2002s till the end of March '03. I'm sure that there are other locals around the US that have these cars also.
  • jpsmithjpsmith Posts: 44
    ..for the good info. $l8K plus TTL for an SES would be a great value. I haven't test driven a Taurus recently but plan to do so soon.

    And yes, the dealer inventory listings on the web are great information. For example, I can see that all the SES's in my local dealer's inventory are equipped with sunroof. (Apparently there is some kind of "free sunroof" deal with the SES?) Being 6' 5" tall I generally don't want a car with sunroof due to headroom, but I'll have to see how it fits.

    Finally, I too think Taurus is much better looking than Sable.
  • bg729bg729 Posts: 6
    Subject: new sable wagon-6 seater- how is heat??
    Date: 1/31/2003 8:24 PM Eastern Standard Time
    From: Heidi 929
    Message-id: <20030131202454.17879.00030880@mbs-m04.aol.com>

    I am trying to decide whether to buy an LS mercury sable wagon. How long does it take the car to warm up inside? There is 79 cubic feet to heat. Does the back seat get warm enough. The six seater does not have an A/C vent in the rear for the summer, either.
    If you own the car. please share your experience. I don't want to buy a car that is an icebox.I have related medical issues. I'd rather either get the sedan or spend more $$ and get the Saab wagon. Also would anyone have any qualms about buying a left over 2002 with 19 miles. The dealer received it in April 2002. It is now the end of Jan. 2003.Thanks in advance.
  • I personally bought 2002 Sable Premium with leather and moonroof for $17,700.

    <<Finally, I too think Taurus is much better looking than Sable.>>

    I like more Sables appearance, it is more conservative and more Jaguar like and looks more refined. When I first saw 2000 Sable from distance I thought what an ugly car. It never was on my shopping list until I saw it close on SF autoshow. I was astonished to find out that I really like this car. On the other hand I never liked 2000 Taurus because it was looking too bland except of rear design that is the best in the class.

    Originally I was looking for the one year old used Sable premium with 20,000 miles but couldn't find one. And deals on new cars were so good that I just couldn't resist to go into buying a new car, who knows there never may be another opportunity to have such a good deal on a new car as last year during model year change.
  • I am sorry, I actually bought it for $18,400 without taxes and fees.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Posts: 1,564
    I posted on #2074 about best price you might be able to negotiate for a Taurus SES deluxe which includes the Duratec: SES Deluxe with an MSRP of $22360+$660 shipping for an MSRP of $23020 and an Edmunds invoice of $20459+$660 Shipping=$21119.

    I saw a newspaper ad for a dealer in my area advertising all new '03 Tauri at $3600 under invoice. That price would put the above SES at $21119-$3600=$17519. Quite a good price if actually attainable. I always tend to take the ads with a grain of salt, but it looks like this one is legit, there was not any fine print.
  • NO HEAT IN 94 SABLE UNTIL RPMS REACH 2000.THEN WHEN YOU DROP BELOW 2000 RPMS A SHORT TIME LATER THE AIR BLOWS COLD. REPLACED THERMOSTAT + RAD. CAP.DOES ANY ONE KNOW WHAT PROBLEM COULD BE.
  • riswamiriswami Posts: 192
    to sound like a lot of the post on a Honda or Toyota board here. Some posters can't put anything on this board without mentioning Duratec. Let's list some facts:

    Torque:

    Vulcan - 185 at 3,900
    Duratec - 200 at 4,400

    Fuel Economy- Vulcan is rated 1 mpg higher highway. I'd say real world the advantage is probably 2 mpg better for the Vulcan for city and highway.

    In everyday driving most people couldn't tell the difference. Both enginges use the same tranny.The torque which gets you off the line is not much different.

    I've subcribed to Car and Driver for 19 years. Don't remember them or any other publication gushing over the Duratec. When you compare it to competitor's powerplants it isn't a standout. I'm not saying it isn't a good engine; but some here are a little zealous in their opinion of this power plant.To tell you the truth none of this family of engines, ZTEC, 2.5 Duratec has done much for Ford. None of them are particulary powerful and they aren't fuel misers either.
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