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Ford Taurus/Mercury Sable Sedans Pre-2008

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  • tomcat630tomcat630 Posts: 854
    Olda and Buick are as good as dead. I. E. The hyped Intrigue is way down in this booming market. I am sure there were a lot of lemons made in the 1998 year, like Edmunds' long term car, that turned buyers off to GM forever.

    The Taurus and Sable are kicking the already
    outdated Intrigue's, Regal's and Century's butts.
    GM thinks it can come up with a new car and not
    do anything to it for 7-8 years, like the old
    Cutlasses, Acheivas, and Centurys (ick). Now, cars have to be constantly updated, or else die.
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    Buick is not dead. Buick rates very high in customer satisfaction along with reliability ratings. Buick just has a stigma of being an "old persons car".
    As for Olds, I believe they will be merged into another branch of GM soon.
    Good to hear about the Taurus/Sable sales. I see quite a few of them around now and like the look more and more. The 16" wheels that come standard give the car a sporty, yet rich look. Score one for Ford for putting a nice wheel and tire on these cars. I still believe the Taurus will make the #2 spot by next year. The Camry will be the one to fall from grace.
  • indytabindytab Posts: 32
    Before buying our Taurus, I asked a local car audio shop if they could put in a CD changer using the pre-wired Ford system. Their reply was no, that they couldn't get the adapter that would work between their systems and Ford's wiring. Don't know the details, but this car audio place has been doing booming business for quite a few years. We folded the CD cost into our financing and love the CD changer. It's a bit odd having it in the trunk, but since it has 6 CDs you get alot of playtime before you have to open the trunk and change CDs.

    I would like to get another magazine or two, though, so each person in our family could have their own 6 CD selection without having to constantly shift CDs around.
  • keithwandkeithwand Posts: 23
    What can anyone tell me about a 2000 Taurus SE SVG pkg. with FFV fuel option? Is the drivetrain ratio the same as the std. 3.0? What can I expect for performance (is there any?), etc.
    My co. car is on order and I have to sell a 99 Lexus GS400 w/ 300hp. Don't mind getting a free car but I'm not looking forward to 150hp either.
    Comments please.
  • pecospecos Posts: 8
    I did some research on the Flex Fuel version of the Taurus a couple of months ago when I was considering buying one. I too was concerned about any possible differences. Turns out the only difference between it and the regular Vulcan engine version of the Taurus is a sensor in the fuel tank that tells the engine what to expect fuel wise so that it can adjust accordingly. Since the FFV can accept fuel sold with up to an 85/15 ethanol/gasoline mix, there can be quite a range of what's actually in the tank at any given time. I don't think there's any difference in gear ratios whatsoever since the engine is I think still rated at 155hp. Ethanol is quite a bit more expensive than regular unleaded, hence there are no gas stations in my area that sell even a 15/85 mix which, by the way, all cars could use. I ended up buying a '00 Taurus about a month later with the Duratec engine instead. I just wanted the extra hp for extended highway driving. But I wouldn't shy away from the FFV for any other reason. The Vulcan is very fuel efficient 6. Had one in my '97 Taurus. Very reliable and smooth powerplant.
  • keithwandkeithwand Posts: 23
    Thanks for your very informative reply. I drove a rental car w/ FFV and found it to be very slow and this was without the air cond. on. I too would have opted for the bigger engine but being a co. car had no choice. I am surprised that the co. I work for had the std. ABS brakes deleted but opted and paid for the FFV engine. I would have gone for the safety.
  • pecospecos Posts: 8
    Your Co. may not have actually paid extra for the FFV engine. All the Taurus' at dealerships in my area with this option show both a charge for and then an equal dollar amount credit on the sticker for the Flex Fuel Vulcan. In other words, it was free. Enjoy your car. The price was certainly right!
  • jc58jc58 Posts: 48
    Does anyone know if you can get the 24v engine on the Taurus SE?

    I am looking for a sedan for my wife, and am looking at the Taurus, as well as they Camry, 626, and Accord. I really like the looks of the 2000 Taurus, but would like to know what people who have bought it think of it.

    How is the handling, ride, pick-up ( with 24v engine) and the quiteness. Also, have you had any problems with the 2000 model?
  • teoteo Posts: 2,508
    Regarding your comments on GM sedans...well the Taurus has been essentially the same car since its introduction in 1986, so most major changes have been related to the exterior presentation.
    The current car still uses the old door design from the 96-99 generation and it is beyond me as to why Ford revamped the entire body design but the doors? The Taurus has had a very dark reliability history (Look at reliability data from years past)and specially the vaunted 3.8L engine and its infamous "Blown Gasket" problems. Sorry to blow it back and you, but the Taurus has never been a star in the reliability dept. GM as Ford and other manufacturers have had their own share of mistakes, but the current GM sedans (Regal, Intrigue, Bonneville, Lumina, Impala)are showing much improved trends in quality control and reliability over the Taurus. In fact, the Intrigue reports less problems per car than the Taurus does. As far as the "Long Term" tests performed by Edmunds...I take them with a grain of salt due to their questionable testing methodology, (Going back to the same dealer that gave them bad service, wrecking the car and then trash it all the way,etc)and unquestionable bias towards domestic products, namely GM, make me wonder about the accuracy of these reports. But to each his own. In the end the best critic and tester is the owner of the vehicle. I was a Ford owner many moons ago and the cars exhibited the worst quality and durability of any domestic maker. The "Quality is Job#1" bull was just a "Hook" and "Hype" to make potential customers believe that their products offered the edge from all fronts. Ford had lost until recently the design leadership it acquired in the 1980's with the Taurus, but now it is regaining some of it back with the Focus. Ford lost me forever with their lousy products and service. Enjoy your vehicles...that's the beauty of having choices....everyone drives what they like!
  • sable93sable93 Posts: 107
    "well the Taurus has been essentially the same car since its introduction in 1986, so most major changes have been related to the exterior presentation"

    I hope you aren't being serious. The Taurus has changed a lot since 1986. Everything it is known for having problems with has been eliminated (and for a while.) No more 3.8L engine, no more AXOD-E transmission, and it seems like they improved the air conditioner's reliability. I had a '93 Sable (same as Taurus) GS, and now I have a '97 Taurus GL. The only thing similar about the two cars is the name. In '96 Ford improved everything about the Taurus/Sable. They are much more reliable, they handle better, they are more comfortable (in my opinion), and they are more cutting edge design than the '92-'95 models. I highly doubt you've driven both model cars if you think there are no differences. To each there own though. Just don't use facts about the 3.8L engine when talking about the new Taurus (since it hasn't been used in Tauruses for 5 years.)
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    The 2000 Taurus has over 900 improvements!! how can you call this the same car?? It is obvious you know nothing about this car!
    And another thing, Ford Taurus sales are up 32% over last year alone! This is Taurus only, not including Sable.
    Yes, you can get the Duratec 3.0 24V engine in the SE model. It is a $626 option, I forgot the option number. Head over to Edmunds on the new car site, I believe they list the option number. I currently own a Contour SE V6. I am seriously thinking of a 2000 Taurus SE myself with the 24V Duratec. A dealer in my area is listing the SE's with the 24V V6 for 17.2K, A while back he had some for 15.9K! One heck of a value when comparing other sedans with like options.
  • jd123jd123 Posts: 7
    Well, when it doubt consult the manual. Here's some input straight from the T2k owner's guide p. 181:
    "Ethanol is more chemically active than gasoline. It corrodes some metals and causes some plastic and rubber components to swell, break down or become brittle and crack, especially when mixed with gasoline. Special materials and procedures have been developed for flexible fuel vehicles and the dispensers used by ethanol fuel providers." This is followed by a warning that flexible fuel components are not interchangeable with standard unleaded gasoline components.
    The basic difference is the construction of fuel line materials. The FFV also differs from the standard Vulcan is regards to PCV valve, spark plugs, and compression ratio (Vulcan is 9.3:1, FFV is 9.14:1, Duratec is 10:1).
    Otherwise, all the standard parts and filters are the same.
  • keithwandkeithwand Posts: 23
    Will my FFV be any slower than the already slow std. engine? I was told it would burn hotter with better low end torque and performance if I could find a 85/15 blend. Looked on the web and those are almost none existent in MI/OH/IN which is my territory. The co. must have gotten a heck of a fleet deal because they also had the ABS deleted which was std. on the SE SVG trim.
  • evoluteevolute Posts: 1
    Just got a '00 Taurus SEL for graduation : black, spoiler, moonroof, Mach system, and charcoal cloth interior. I love this car. Much nicer to drive than my '95 Taurus SE, 3.8 liter (which is what enabled me to get this car, recieved a $4000 rebate on top of another $1000, at dealer's price, enabled by the X plan) engine and leather. This is only my second car, and I am hoping to drive it for quite some time, though sometimes I wonder if maybe I should have gone with foriegn for the reliability (causing me to go with less features for more money), but so far 1050 miles, and not a thing off tick. Keeping fingers crossed.

    One more thing, why does everyone give Ford so much crap? Everyone I hear at work and anywhere is "Why didn't you buy a chevy?" Because I got all the bells and whistles for less money, thats why. Or "Friends don't let friends drive Fords?" Okay guys, I thought the competition was between the businesses, not the drivers, as if what car you drive determines your character. News people, they are CARS, not a reason to argue which is better. If everyone drove the same car, that feeling you get when you drive off the lot in a new car, that few people yet have, will be gone. I would puke if I saw my same exact car being driven around by some old man, trying to stay young and hip, like those morons with spoilers on their mini-vans.
  • zslickzslick Posts: 11
    I, too, have a 98 Taurus SE which does not slow down when taking my foot off the gas. While my car has the Vulcan engine, the problem seems to be related to the engine management computer than the engine itself. I suspect the car was intentionally set up this way to prevent throttle off oversteer which I have encountered with other front wheel drive cars. Check out the NHTSA website (www.nhtsa.gov, I think). The last time I looked there, I thought I spotted a technical service bulletin that addressed this.
  • avfanavfan Posts: 17
    I have a 92 taurus sedan with the 3.8 engine. I have always had a gas smell in the passenger compartment in the summer time. I brought to the dealer before the warranty was up and he said he could not duplicate the smell. It happens after I have been driving the car for 1/2 hour (highway), less time in stop and go traffic. If the windows are closed and the AC is on, it comes in through the vents. When I get out of the car to check any loose connections I can't smell it anywhere. Every year it gets worse. Has anyone else experienced this? Please help!
  • slunarslunar Posts: 479
    evolute: Historically there were lots of reasons to bad mouth Fords. For 30 years Ford was years behind GM in technical innovation. Some examples are:

    1. GM cars had independent front suspension in the 1930's. Ford didn't until 1949.

    2. GM went to overhead valve engines in the 1930's, Ford didn't until 1954.

    3. GM's full size cars went to rear coil springs in 1959, Ford didn't until 1965.

    4. GM's mid size cars went to rear coil springs in 1964 or 1965, Ford didn't until 1972.

    5. GM's V8 engines of the 1950's were light years ahead of Ford's overweight under powered designs. It wasn't until 1962 that Ford had a lightweight V8.

    6. GM was king of the design studio in the 1950's and 1960's.

    Now what does that ancient history have to do with your '00 Taurus. Most of Ford's cars from 1974 to 1985 were hideous ill handling under powered cars. The 1986 Taurus was a great car in its day and most likely kept Ford in the passenger car business. Hey as good as things are for FoMoCo today, the early 80's were dark days for Ford. With that said the '00 Taurus is a far better car than the 86 Taurus but bad reputations die hard. GM has had some real turkeys in the last 20 years, but GM gets away with its bad cars due to its legendary days in the 1950's and 1960's when it owned 70% of the car market in the U.S. Ask your Chevy fan friends to explain why GM has lost almost half of it's market share in the last 25 years.
  • slunarslunar Posts: 479
    I drove a new Taurus every year from 1986-1999. One year my Taurus would coast forever. The next year's car felt like someone was jamming on the brakes when you took your foot off the gas. I just figured they kept jerking with the software. The Tauri I liked the best were the ones that seemed in the middle of coast verses braking characteristics. I understand these days you want the throttle body to close when you take your foot off the gas to reduce emissions during coasting.
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    Also ask your friends why Ford could possibly pass Chevy in car/truck production in the next 5 years? And why more Fords are in the top 10 in car/truck sales? And why more Ford plants have won more awards for quality/productivity? GM is a big fat giant that is wandering and has no direction. Ford Motor company is no joke. Taurus sales up 32% over last year alone!
  • I purchased via carsdirect.com, and w/ the $1k rebate, their price was about $600 under invoice, but they have a $250 service fee. we rejected our first choice due to miles over 200, and accepted the silver frost w/ moonroof and side air (along w/ everything but traction control and a rear spoiler). did not want the moonroof for the $800 extra, but it is a nice treat. car seems small from the outside, but six foot folks can sit behind a six foot driver without complaint. 6 cd player in armrest is fine, but if i want a backup holder it must be purchased thru ford it seems. i have to crank the treble all the way up to get the sound i like with the Mach (mock?) system, but it seems fine. Carsdirect.com was ok to deal with, delivering the car to my home in santa barbara all the way from the dealer in san diego (bob baker). the car had 13 miles on it. they need to display a sample of the paperwork that the driver brings with the car (finance and reg papers, got $15k ford finance at 0.9% for 36 months) so as not to be surprised at what needs to be filled out (not really that bad, but we are paranoid around deals like this which we don't do every year). the driver of the flat bed allows demo ride of the car so that you can be sure and you can reject the car for any reason. he demostrates all the gizmos on the vehicle also, he was very nice. sorry if this seems like an advert for them, but it was a better deal (price was as shown on their web site) than i could do directly with a dealer. you know the dealers are trying to lock out the manufacturers from competing with them by buying the state politicians...this causes us to pay an extra $1000 or so...tell your local politician to fight back. all i need from the dealer is competent service and demo cars to try out; dump the sales person tricks. carsdirect.com is backed by dell computer guy and other big investors, but i understand other internet dealers are out there.

    I have gone up the steepest longest hills on 101 at only 65mph (about 2400rpm) and the 200hp engine did not shift down to cope! it holds the road very well for me, tight like a small car; a little torque steer to the right, i think, when accelerating, and if pushed, it takes off. 90mph on the free way is no problem, and it is hard to touch the pedal lightly enough to go below 65.

    the trunk is nice and roomy, but they did not put in a cargo net even though they have the hooks inside (bought one). Another peeve is not having a light under the hood of the engine compartment?! I guess they think that the duratec doesn't need any checking...what about fluids you bozo engineers at ford! I do not like the side inward curves on the taurus and wish for more side protection for the paint in parking lots. the front glass is so tall, i am having trouble putting up a sun screen (even "jumbo" size is only about 28", and i need about 36").

    Overall, I am very pleased with the car, the power is great compared with my 93 merc cougar 3.8 v-6 and 88 chevy 350 v-8 pickup. it takes rough bumps very well, but certain old wavy surface concrete on the freeway (southbound for 1/4 mile on 101 at buellton,ca) can set up a little feel that it is too stiff to handle i guess, but not too bad.

    the leather seats are firm without any stiff metal line hitting across the back. our ride up to morro bay and back was comfortable except for my varying the speed between 55 and 90 mph to break in the car (manual says first 1000 miles to vary the speed, i probably vary too quickly). the manual also says not to stay up at the top of the tachometer continuously, which would be 7000rpm, i may have hit 6000 with a couple of downshifts.

    Road noise: some wind noise that i wish was less, but i was not ready to spend the extra 10k for a lincoln ls for the same engine and thicker glass. side winds have some effect on the car, but not enough to move me out of my lane.

    Zero defects to take into the dealer yet...very nice surprise, no squeaks from dash movement, no problems...hmm, maybe the turn signal switch when i want to go right isn't quite latching at the right position for me...not sure yet; not enough to bug me so far. the engine power makes it all worthwhile for me, but could get a ticket for me unless i learn to quit competing and showing off on the highway.
  • you may wish to check the fuel pump/gauge gasket on top of the gas tank, which is somewhat of a pain to deal with at least that is what happened to us on a 93 cougar 3.8 16 gal tank; we did not tighten up the sensor enough and some spillage did occur...we fixed it. also check for any other hose connections, tank damage, or perhaps the gas cap...using a match may allow you to collect from your insurance!

    we had an engine service lite go on at 140k on our 93 cougar and it was due to either the dealer replaced oxygen sensor ($300job) or the lost gas cap ($10)...stupid us for not trying the gas cap replacement first; poor comm betw wife and i.
  • another comment on the new taurus, i cannot seem to judge where the front bumper is nor how far i have in back of me, so it will be a matter of cautious parking for me. maybe the $50k mercedes e class radar would be nice. is this a problem for anyone else?
  • tomcat630tomcat630 Posts: 854
    In Atuomotive News website www.autonews, they have a story about GM's new Epsilon car whic will replace the Grand Am, Malibu, and Saturn LS. They will be made in Kansas City, and the Grand Pix production will move to the Chevy Impala plant.

    No word on the Intrigue. Hmmm, I wonder why?
  • yurakmyurakm Posts: 1,345
    Probably you mean this story:

    http://www.autonews.com/html/main/stories/gmfairfax.htm

    But it say:

    move out existing production of the larger Pontiac Grand Prix and Oldsmobile Intrigue
  • yurakmyurakm Posts: 1,345
    Sorry, clicked "post" to early: the story also said:

    the automaker has yet to decide whether it will keep the Intrigue
  • malibu99malibu99 Posts: 305
    Is NOT replacing Grand Am, Malibu , and Saturn. Epsilon is the NEW platform that these cars will be built on for the next generation Grand Am, Malibu and Saturn. Just correcting you since it reads as if GM plans to replace those cars, they don't, they are re designing them for 2003- 2004 models.

    "Fairfax is expected to get the next-generation Chevrolet Malibu and Pontiac Grand Am, both based on the Epsilon platform."
  • jd123jd123 Posts: 7
    Thanks to the superjumbo sized Taurus windshield, you of course need a superjumbo sunshade. If you are familiar with the silver reflective accordian-style, the superjumbo is similar except that it folds in half in storage. Since it folds in half, it does not have the same structural support. Nevertheless, I have found it to work adequately.
    Make sure you get the newer "superjumbo" packaging as the older ones are even bigger (just about suitable for an rv).
  • robnisrobnis Posts: 78
    I have a green, '99 SHO with 11K miles and am interested if someone would like to take over the lease payments of just $400 a month for the next year? As you undoubtedly know, the car has every available option on it: leather, roof, 6 cd changer in trunk, 32 valve engine, automatic climate control, btb warranty, and the car is perfect.

    I have leased SHO's for the last 10 years, using the Red Carpet lease from '89 on. Since they will not offer me the product I want in the future I am getting out of Fords and moving on to something else.

    I am meticulous about my cars, servicing them every 3K miles, do not allow smoking in them, wax them once a year, use only 91+ octane, etc.

    Should you ask, I live 30 min east of Harrisburg, PA.
  • regfootballregfootball Posts: 2,166
    just keep it for another year...

    Ford will be bringing back a v6 SHO soon, maybe in 2001 or 2002. About 225-230 hp by the rumors of it in car mags, etc.

    Your 99 SHO is tropic green like mine. I'd hate to see you give up on such a nice car. Worse yet, you may get stuck in a GM.

    Try out a Lincoln LS to stay with Ford for a couple years, is what I'd recommend. I guess I couldn't fault you for going with an LHS or Aurora but I'll take it personally if you unload your SHO for a Pontiac Bonneville or Grand Prix. I may have to find some extra income in my budget just to take it off your hands, so it has a good home.

    And I hope you don't get an Accord, Camry or Saturn.
  • tl565tl565 Posts: 78
    I've been looking at the Accord but am concerned with a lot of problems that owners of the 2000 Accord are complaining about on the Accord Problems board here on Edmunds. There seems to be common problems with the transmission, some fuel 'boiling' problems, engine hesitation, rattles, and other problems like oil leaks etc. These problems are all on nearly-new 2000 Accords.

    For those of you who have purchased a 2000 Taurus, have you had any mechanical problems?

    Thanks in advance for the info!
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