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Ford Taurus/Mercury Sable Sedans Pre-2008

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Comments

  • ehaaseehaase Posts: 328
    That information is already out of date.

    Automotive News reported this week that Mercury will get versions of both the Ford 500 and the Mazda 6.

    The Sable will be around through 2006.
  • regfootballregfootball Posts: 2,166
    i thought the 500 was supposed to be a big car and they say its not as big as the Impala?

    what's the point then?

    The Taurus now is a nice size. But I could see a car line in addition to that that is as big as say, a Deville in interior space.

    I say make the current Duratec standard, and make a VVT version optional. If the next redesign had a 4 cylinder as standard thats ok. The current car is long in the tooth so they have to sell it on features and value now.

    Also, invest in improving the handling, suspension, a new interior, some styling tweaks.....that ought to keep the Taurus selling ok till a major redesign.

    The point to Ford is, invest SOMETHING in improving the product. HOW BOUT an SVT Taurus for all us SHO owners looking to buy a performance Taurus again?????? Stick too, please......if you did it for the Focus you can do it for the Taurus, Getrag makes many manual trannies just sitting on the shelf.

    I don't need YAW control or NAVIGATION. Just a Taurus, with a high hp hot rod motor, a stick, grippy seats, grippy tires, and sunroof and really good sound system. Leather too.
  • riswamiriswami Posts: 192
    realize that the Vulcan has only been used in the Taurus.The debut of the Taurus was 1985 as an 86 model.

    If Ford is going to keep the current edition around until 2005 that means this style will be in production since the 1996 model year. That is a long time for any model and it doesn't help the Taurus.

    I believe the 3.8 GM motor was developed in the early 60's with a major revision in the late 80's. So the Vulcan isn't that old.
  • is also used in the Ranger (or was) along with the 4.0 V6s, and also it was at one time the base engine in the Windstar (might still be). It was the base engine in the old RWD Aerostar van, too. However, the majority of production did/does go into the Taurus and Sable.

    It indeed was new in 1985 for the new Taurus and Sable.

    The Vulcan may be lower in HP than some engines, but it has decent low-end torque, something four cylinders (especially multi-valve 4s) do not usually have. The Vulcan has around 170-180 pound-feet, which is decent and comparable to many competitors. Car ads always trumpet HP, but they never mention torque. I'd much rather know what the torque output is, and at what RPM it's delivered. HP is needed to maintain speed/overcome wind resistance. Torque's what gets the car moving. If I get torque when I mash the gas (i.e., at fairly low engine speeds), I'm much happier than if I have to rev the spit out of an engine to get power. The rush of acceleration (and the haze of tire smoke...:-) you get out of a big block V8 is from its torque.

    (Note that the Vulcan and 4.0 are not related--the 4.0 is a German design that is actually older than the Vulcan. Remember the Capri--not the Mustang-based car, the one from '70-'76. That car's 2.8 L V6 is the basis for the later 2.9 and 4.0 OHV Ranger/Bronco II/Explorer engines, and also the 4.0 SOHC).

    As for the GM 3.8, it's ancient. I think it's the oldest engine design still out there still using the same displacement and basic layout (pushrod, etc.). This assumes that Chrysler has finally ended production on the 318 V8, which dates to 1963 as a 273 V8 and itself began in '66--though a 318 with a thicker block casting and different heads existed back as far as 1959).

    The GM 231/3.8 was an odd-fire V6 from its start in the early 1960s (Buick Special and Skylark), and they used it for a few years.

    By 1966 or so, design and tooling was sold to Jeep when Jeep was part of Kaiser (prior to AMC). When AMC bought Jeep in 1970, they began switching to AMC straight-sixes. GM wanted the V6 back during the fuel crisis, and AMC needed the money. So, when GM's new intermediate cars came out in 1976, the 231/3.8 was back as an even-fire engine. Then it was re-done in the late 1980s, as stated above, with the switch to modern fuel injection. They've kept tweaking it. Proves it is a basically sound design. It too has decent torque at lower RPMs.

    Anyway, that ends today's lesson. Thank you for attending... :-)
  • fdthirdfdthird Posts: 352
    When is the engine test scheduled??? Canb I bring you an apple??
  • If I am looking for a Duratec with leather, ABS, side air bags (is that an SES?) can I get that for under $17K with 0 percent for 5 ??
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Posts: 1,564
    All we want about what Ford's future plans are. In the mean time I will just keep on enjoying my Duratec Taurus. By the time I am looking for a replacement in about seven years assuming it doesn't get totalled, I will just reevaluate at that point. In the meantime, I think Ford could make a lot of marketing inroads if they published comparitive advertisements that emphasized the value you are getting for the price.

    Yes, Accord and Camry are good cars, though Camry has slipped lately in the CR ratings, and the jury is still out as to whether the newest generation Accord is up to their historical quality levels. But to get their V-6 versions, they will tend to push you up to at about $23K or more (negotiated price, not list). A Taurus with Duratec will run you an actual negotiated price of about $17-$18K. That is a very significant difference. If you look at the overall package of price vs features, for a family sedan Taurus is hard to beat, and I believe the quality is nearly a wash these days.
  • pluto5pluto5 Posts: 618
    GM 3.8 is much preferable to Vulcan IM0 having driven both. As far as being ancient, I guess you could say that Boeing 737 is ancient but Southwest Airlines runs their entire business based on an ancient aircraft and is one of the most successful! Ford needs to redesign the entire Taurus/Sable line IMO but I wouldn't hold my breath given their current finances.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Posts: 1,564
    The $17K-18K price range are including the current $3000 rebate incentives. Usually your choice is rebate or low interest rates, not both. If you page back in this discussion, you will see people having paid about 18K for a Loaded Taurus or Sable with Duratec, ABS and even with leather.

    You can check the Ford web site, and if I remember right, they have a section listing factory incentives once you get into the Taurus area. The Edmunds area for rebates, I have found does not usually keep up with what is really available, as things change too often.
  • riswamiriswami Posts: 192
    Thanks for the history lesson. I forgot that the Vulcan was used in the Windstar. Thought most of the Windstars came thru with the 3.8. Never would have thought of the Aerostar and didn't know about use in the Ranager.

    If history is any indicator I'm going to bet that the majority of Tauruses will be sold with the Vulcan. Ford is still using the 3.8 and look at the head gasket problems with that engine.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Posts: 1,564
    If you are buying a new Taurus these days, you cannot get the 3.8 engine anyway, as it was replaced by the Duratec as the optional engine in Taurus/Sable when the '96 redesign came out. So no worry about headgaskets. I would bet any 3.8 engines they are putting in Windstar these days probably have a redesign to fix the headgasket problem anyway.
  • riswamiriswami Posts: 192
    I know that the 3.8 was discontinued in the Taurus (replaced by Duratec) in 96 and on models.

    My point is they continue to put the 3.8 in the Windstar and the Mustang. So don't bet on the Vulcan going away. I also wouldn't bet that the 3.8 head gasket problem has been addressed.

    As far as putting a four in the Taurus; maybe a reasonable stratergy if energy gets tight and the fours make a 20% or so improvement in fuel economy over the current v-6s.Also gas would have to increase by 50 cents to a buck a gallon fior most folks to consider a four. Right now fuel economy is not an issue with most new car buyers. Why should it be when gas is as cheap as it has ever been!
  • upsetter1upsetter1 Posts: 205
    500 is smaller because it is based on Volvo S80 platform. Though originally I heard that it is going to be a big car - between Tarus and Vic. May be they were meaning the interior space - the same tricks as with Focus - higher seating positions and etc.

    Taurus originally was thought to be based on Volvo, but after 500 arrival they decided to move to less expensive platform like Mazda6. Not bad to me, it should more sporty car, though I would rather go for Mercury Sable based on Mazda6. It ought to be of higher quality and more sporty than Ford. They also may shoose to keep Taurus as Lumina or Malibu Classic - just for fleets and rental. Why not Mondeo, probably it is more expensive platform than Mazda6.
  • danielj6danielj6 Posts: 285
    The leather seats in my Sable are really really cold in this New York winter. I wish I had heated seats because my old butt suffers in this weather.

    Well, yesterday I paid a visit to dealer service because the hood release handle malfunctioned in my S.W. They fixed it and replaced windshield wipers which were brittle. I should've bought an extended warranty. Mine expires in April 03. With an hourly rate of $85 + parts, the dealer is going to take me to the cleaners. After April I'm afraid my car will begin experiencing mechanical problems.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Posts: 1,564
    I have often thought leather seats were overrated. Cold in winter, hot in summer, and when they age tend to get wrinkled and messy looking. Cloth seats suit me fine and are less expensive.

    I usually try to avoid dealers for service except for recalls due to their generally high prices. Fortunately, so far, little need to go anywhere for service with my '00. One insignificant recall, and two tire rotations is all it has been in for any service. I change oil, oil filter and air filter myself. With buying oil and filters on sale, I spend about $8-9 max per oil change also.
  • venus537venus537 Posts: 1,443
    "But to get their V-6 versions, they will tend to push you up to at about $23K or more (negotiated price, not list)"

    $23K just happens to be the list price (not negotiated) for the accord lx v6.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Posts: 1,564
    OK, Edmunds lists MSRP with shipping for Accord LX sedan with shipping of $23460, with invoice of $21,159. Are there any incentives for Accord? If not, and given it is a new model, I doubt you could get it under invoice, right? Please go find one, bargain hard, and report back what you can buy it for.

    Meanwhile, many other Taurus and Sable owners have the proof they can get a well equipped one with DOHC for $18K. I have the proof sitting in my garage. Taurus SES, DOHC V-6. That you will notice is $3k less than I will bet you can buy your Accord LX sedan.

    Since you are obviously not going to change your mind, and the happy Taurus/Sable owners posting here are unlikely to either, I think it is fruitless for me to respond to your posts anymore. I will leave it up to someone else if they want to carry on.
  • riswamiriswami Posts: 192
    indeed. He drives a Jetta. Talk about over paying for a set of wheels. I owned one for 10 years. Like the car, had good luck with it, but parts are ridiculously priced.The Jetta was an 88; had a 93 Escort Wagon that held its integrity much better than the VW. But VWs are back in vogue, go figure.

    Taurus/Sable are good value. There is a large segment of the population that think they are inferior. Ford did that to themselves.
  • ehaaseehaase Posts: 328
    I have read that Ford has fixed the head gaskets on the 3.8L, but now the 3.8L has problems with the intake manifold that can harm or ruin the engine in the 60,000 to 90,000 range. I have read that all of GM's OHV engines, including the 3.8L, also have intake manifold problems that can destroy the engine in the same range.
  • regfootballregfootball Posts: 2,166
    kinda hilarious, if Ford can sell a DOHC Taurus for 17-18K, how is it all the GM lovers can whine so much about the 3800 engine saving them so much money on their car? I can't think of a single GM car with a 3800 engine that you can buy cheaper than the Taurus Duratec. Kinda kills that whole argument for GM fans right there.
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