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Volvo S70

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  • lweisslweiss Posts: 342
    I was away for a week (car not used), then when I tried the left front window, it rolled about a third of the way down, then stopped. Rolled it up again and then tried it and then it hesitated but then rolled all the way down. The next day the same thing. Today it rained and it seemed to be working better. Maybe the mechanism is dirty and needs lubrication, but then taking the door apart to get to it is about 50% of the cost of replacing the power window motor anyway.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,440
    so yours stopped. That's definitely different than my problem.

    it does sound like, as you said, a lubrication problem.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • kizhekizhe Posts: 242
    We have 1999 Volvo GLT with about 30K miles.
    In general car was o'k and trouble free (my wife drives it and loves it)except common Volvo S70 problems: lights bulbs and driver's door electric disabling.
    We have two problems now:
    1. 30K service was done in Aug 03.
      I assume they checked the coolant level @ last service (maybe not?).
      But now level is low. There are no puddles or other evidence of external leak.
      How could it possibly drop so quickly?
    2. ETS warning light came on periodically. After resetting the ignition it usually come down, but once in a while came back on with no apparent reason.
    Did anybody have/had similar experience?
    I suspect that some damage might have been done during last service.
    My suspicions is NOT groundless - We had bad luck (and not once!)
    with upscale dealership's quality of work ( Mercedes and Volvo).
  • kizhekizhe Posts: 242
    Hey, total silence here???!!!
    What's happening?
    Everybody traded or sold their Volvo already? Nobody to answer?
    We bought new Volvo because of it's phenomenal reliability records.
    My Volvo S-70 GLT was trouble free for 4 years and about 33K.
    All services were done at dealerships. Very light use: 14miles to work
    and back - mild climate, no abuse, no teenage drivers, etc.,
    And then all hell broke loose: coolant dropped, ETS software replaced, ETS box failed and
    replaced, burned smell in the cabin, got my wife in a state of panic.
    And people in the dealership with the straight face are telling us that this a very good car??
    My good old Dodges were running for 200k miles each, practically no problems and very cheap repairs. What's the deal here?
    Are we paying extra bucks for upscale car to have all these problems?
    Is our vanity cost that high? Give me a RELIABLE car and I am willing pay more for it.
    They are giving us this expensive foreign junk instead.
    I'll sell my S-70 and I'll NEVER have any business with Volvo again.
    Volvo are you listening??
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,440
    i'm here and a volvo owner. saw your original post, but really can't help. I have had no such problems. Maybe others haven't either, and that's what the silence is all about.

    Is only your ETS light coming on? Not the ABS light? If it was both, I could help ya (bad ABS module, which is very common), but with only the one light, I have no idea. Is it fixed now? (you mentioned new software and box)

    as far as coolant, have you topped it off? has it dropped again? if it keeps dropping, then I would think you have a leak. Have you checked the oil dipstick? Any foaming or discoloration? If so, probably an indication that coolant is getting in the oil.

    So, overall, you've got the ETS issue, bad smell, and low coolant. If the ETS is now fixed and the low coolant was a one-time thing and is not dropping anymore, then you are down to a bad smell. Maybe I'm too lenient, but that's a small list for 4 years.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • lweisslweiss Posts: 342
    My 1998 Volvo S-70 base sedan now has 66K miles and though we had more major problems two years ago, it has calmed down- an occasional check engine light, the fan running after the motor is turned off, power windows slowing down- hate to say it, but owning a Volvo (or Mercedes, or BMW, or the other European cars) will give you more maintenance and higher cost maintenance than the Japanese/Korean or even (maybe) American cars- it just comes with the territory. I have found a good independent place in Virginia (near Washington, D.C.) and he admits that the Volvos have high maintenance, but good safety and longevity if you keep them maintained. My timing belt needs replacement at about 70K. So I allocate about $1,000 to $1,500 per year in Volvo maintenance and replacements- cheaper than buying a new car, I guess. Plus the features are good and the seats are top notch.
  • We own a 1998 S70 which we bought new and now has 21,000 miles on the clock. Always dealership serviced. Last week my wife was T boned at the driver's side front by a car that blew a red light. The impact spun her car around and she hit another car head on. She slammed her head and left side against the inside of the drivers door. Suffered a concussion and separated neck/shoulder muscles. I am very concerned that the neither the front or side airbags deployed. The impact destroyed the front end of the car. The Volvo dealership lamely stated the sensors were not tripped. That much is obvious. I think the car should be looked at by Volvo engineers. We buy these cars largely based on there safety features.
  • volvomaxvolvomax Posts: 5,274
    Only go off if the frame is deformed.
    Sounds like she bent alot of sheet metal, but not enough frame.
    Hope she's allright.
  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Posts: 2,228
    It doesn't take much speed to trip the side airbags. If she was injured that badly by the door panel and was spun around, the side airbag should have inflated. The speed of the front impact may have been too low to deploy the front airbags.
  • volvomaxvolvomax Posts: 5,274
    Speed has nothing to with it.
    Frame deformation is the sole decider in a Volvo.
    If the car was hit in the door the surrounding fram probably didn't deform enough to trip the bag.
  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Posts: 2,228
    Bull! Show me where Volvo is any different from every other car manufacturer. The sensors that trip the airbags are based on the deceleration rate of the vehicle and have NOTHING to do with how much the frame is deformed. A sensor is unable to determine how much the frame is damaged; they aren't optical. Someone has given you some major misinformation. Don't you remember Volvo had to recalibrate the front sensors on the S80 because the airbags went off in a 5 mph bumper collision? There definitely wasn't any frame deformation at that speed. Look in the manual of any car that has side airbags and it will tell you the avg speed at which you can expect the airbag to inflate. I believe most cars are set to go off at about 15 mph and up. So either this ladies Volvo was hit at a speed below that limit, the side impact wasn't a direct t-bone, or the airbag failed.
  • volvomaxvolvomax Posts: 5,274
    First, the S80 bags went off because the front belts weren't fastened. The front bags can do that.
    The side bags operate on a totally different system. They have a nuch higher threshold for deployment. Basically you have to have enough force to compromse the frame. The door gave way enough that the sensor percieved a lower impact speed than what was necessary to trigger the bag.
    Also, point impacts sometimes won't trigger the bags. The impact must be transmitted over a larger surface.
    BTW the owners manual says basically what I have said, the bags don't go off in all situations AND there is no mention of a minimum impact speed for deployment.
  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Posts: 2,228
    IIHS always straps their dummies in. That wasn't why the airbags went off. It was because Volva had made the airbag sensors to sensitive. It happens.

    As far as the side airbags go, you would be incorrect to assume the side airbags require a higher threshold. There is MUCH less metal protecting you on the side of the car and thus much less crush space. This is why the side airbags are designed to inflate quicker then the front airbags. Again, I will tell you the airbag sensors have no way of determining the amount of frame damage before deciding to ignite the bags. It's all based on the amount of force generated by the level of deceleration of the car.

    Per "how stuff works" website, the sensors ignite the bags based on info provided from an accelerometer, NOT a sensor that takes into account frame damage. It also stated side airbags are triggered by impacts of about 12 mph. Here's the link:

    http://auto.howstuffworks.com/airbag5.htm

    And here is a very simple explanation of how the sensors work:

    http://auto.howstuffworks.com/framed.htm?parent=airbag.htm&url=http://www.lemurzone.com/airbag/crash.htm

    I think an "I told you so" dance is in order... :)
  • volvomaxvolvomax Posts: 5,274
    The passenger airbag went off in the S80, no dummy no belt.

    Also, I said Volvo's airbags require a higher threshold for deployment. The accelerometer needs a higher value which is the equivalent of the frame being disrupted. In the S70 the accellerometer was in the base of the B pillar. If the hit went to the front door than the acclerometer would not have registered the brunt of the hit. By the time the door dissapated the impact the value would have been below the level necessary to trigger the seat bag.
  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Posts: 2,228
    Sorry, you need to do better research and stop pretending you know everything. Look at the picture noted prominently on the IIHS website.

     http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/00007_2001.htm#

    It clearly shows BOTH airbags inflated due to a too sensitive sensor in the bumper test. I even remember seeing the action noted on dateline. It also clearly stated Volvo made changes to the sensors to reduce the likelihood of airbag deployment in low speed fender benders. There was no statement saying, "the passenger airbag went off because the seatbelt wasn't on." Fact remains, Volvo made a booboo in their sensors and had to recalibrate them because whether the seatbelt is on or not, the airbag should not deploy at speeds of 5mph!

    My main beef with your statements was you made it sound like the airbags only know to go off when the frame is damaged. I corrected you in explaining its a matter of deceleration rate, combined with the point of impact and speed of impact. You stated I was wrong in saying this. Once I proved you wrong with websites stating exactly what I said, you of course change your words around to cover yourself. You could have easily just said, "you right. I MEANT to say blah blah. And hmm..thats the first time I have seen a speed mentioned for airbag deployment but ok, thats news to me." Instead you continue to claim I'm wrong even though I proved you wrong twice now with links to back myself up. Be a man and admit you don't know everything. :)

    Last comment, if Volvo honestly calibrates their sensors to not go off till the speed is high enough to damage the frame, thats a shame. The airbag is there to help protect the occupant from injury. Frame damage doesn't need to occur in order to inflict severe injuries (as seen by the poor lady mentioned above). What if the door hinge and latch failed and the door just gave way and crushed inward with no contact made to the b pillar? The person could be severely injured or killed because the airbag didn't go off. Any other car's airbag would go off in this situation, but you are telling me that Volvo is different here. Hmm....so much for Volvo safety if this is indeed what occurs. However, I think Volvo is smart enough and doesn't actually design its sensors to only take into account what you are saying. As I said before, its a combo of deceleration rate, speed of impact, and point of impact. As for Volvo being different, unless you know the inside stats of every car's airbag system, you can't state Volvo has higher limits.
  • volvomaxvolvomax Posts: 5,274
    First off the picture shows the 40 MPH BARRIER TEST. Of course the drivers airbag went off.
    The passenger airbag went off beacuse the seat belt wasn't buckled.
    All the say about the bags is that they were re-designed in response to new Federal regulations governing airbag deployment at low speeds.
    The original legislation was written to protect an unbelted 5'8" 175 lb man in a frontal collision. The current legislation is for a belted man. 2 stage bags were mandated.
    As far as the bumper test is concerned, Volvo also has to meet the European NCAP regs which state that the front ends of cars must be soft in order to offer some protection to pedestrians if they are struck by the car. The 5 mph test isn't about safety, its about saving the ins co's $$.

    As for the rest, I have probably seen alot more wrecked Volvo's than you have and I'm quite aware of their construction. Your statement about the door possibly been blown inwards is silly. The door is held in 4 places on a side impact, 2 WELDED, not bolted on hinges. Plus a robust door lock and a flap of reinforced steel that protrudes up from the floor to catch the bottom of the door under the latch.
    Volvo has stated numerous times to us, and to others that their airbags are secondary protection and only deploy when absolutely necessary, especially the side bags.
  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Posts: 2,228
    Dude, do you read anything? The first 3 pictures are of the WRECKED car, the last picture was after the BUMPER test. Notice no paint from the dummy's head is on the inflated bags like there is during the impact tests, and the windshield is intact whereas in the impact test it is shattered! Read the stupid inserts. And I quote, "changes to the airbag sensors reduce the likelihood of deployment in minor fender-benders, and better positioned vent holes direct hot gasses away from a driver's hands". And what's your point about Volvo needing to meet Euro NCAP bumper tests? So do other cars that are sold here. Yes, the IIHS is trying to save insurance companies money. But in no situation is an airbag needed in a simple 5 mph bumper impact, thus why Volvo recalibrated the sensor. This was not in response to federal regulations nor tuning the bags for dual threshold duty. They did the calibration on their own to fix an obvious problem. I know you are trying to sound like the knowledgeable Volvo salesman (or whatever you are), but honestly man, you have killed your credibility by not sweating the details.

    I never said you don't know Volvo's system. I said you can't state Volvo uses higher thresholds unless you know OTHER car's systems. As for the door caving in comment, since I have seen the door caved in on some cars with almost no damage to the floor, I don't think its silly and I was using the example to counter your ridiculous assumption that an airbag will only go off if the frame is damaged. As you originally stated, "frame damage is the SOLE decider on a Volvo", but I proved to you its a matter of deceleration based on readings from an accelerometer. If the force is enough to shove the door inward toward the occupant and risk injury but there is little to no frame damage, then the side bag should inflate.

    The new airbag designs are all about preventing injuries period. Notice if you will how some newer car's side airbags also inflate in the offset impact. They are designed to do so to keep the dummies head away from the door panel and other potential hard points that can cause head injuries. Granted, the S70 in question was designed before these new ideas came around.

    After reading the guy's comments again, my thought is the side airbag didn't go off in this case because the car was hit in the front fender area. Had he hit square on the driver's door at the same speed, the airbag should and probably would have inflated.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Okay, this is getting way too heated and is obviously pointless. Neither of you is going to change the other's mind.

    If you can't politely agree to disagree, then please don't post to each other anymore.

    Thanks.
  • Well, with all due respect I’d like to comment. Yes, the above interchange was too heated, pointless, and neither “alpha” male was willing to concede to anything. But on the other hand, it is sophomoric eloquence of this nature that brings some of us back here everyday to read, chuckle and thank our lucky stars that people like this are not running our country (or are they?).

    Pat, I agree, this forum should not be turned into a Jerry Springer show, but once in a while we all need a good laugh.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Politics and Jerry Springer? Oh please ... let's not go there! I don't think I have enough bleach to mop up that bloodbath. :-)

    Let's just get back to the S70 - minus the fisticuffs. Okay?
  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Posts: 2,228
    Actually, I'm quite a fair person. If I'm proven wrong with documentation, then I will gladly concede and often times even delete the offending posts. But if I know I'm right and prove it with links, I at least expect the other person to look at the info and admit I have a point. I'm not trying to be childish, just hoping maybe he would see what I was trying to say.

    I hate more then anything for the unknowing to be given false, misleading, or vague info. I got a little carried away (I was mostly being heavily sarcastic because I thought it was funny he didn't see the details right in front of him) because I knew I was right about the S80 info and even after seeing my links, the guy still said I was wrong. Anywho, I'm glad some people saw humor in the bantoring. I mean this forum is to be taken lightly, not personally. :)
  • Well I got it! Not a club I wanted to join.

    Right now the light is going out after each restart but coming back after 5 or ten minutes.
    Performance was great before and still after the ETS started on the 5 year mark a few days ago.

    Car is out of warranty and don't have a grand for a new ETM Electronic Throttle Module right now.

    I need to buy some time. Can anyone who has been down this road tell me how much time they had before they absolutley had to bring it to the dealer? I hear there is no warning to the ETM fully malfunctioning.

    I love this car but the myriad of problems is putting a bad taste !!!

    Thx

    rd

    99' C70 HTP M 43k Miles
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,440
    Maybe someone can help me out with this a bit. I was under the impression that the ETS was the same as the '98 TRACS system. Am I wrong? Cause in the '98, the common problem is that the ABS module board develops cracks over its life and will start to throw up both ABS and TRACS lights. This requires a new module (or rebuilt if you know where to go). So what does ETS stand for? I guess I figured it was Electronic Traction something-or-other. But if its related to the throttle, maybe its Electronic Throttle Sensor and I've been assuming wrong all this time.

    I just did a search for ETS on this board and found no other solid information on it.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • Yup ! ETS is the Electronic Throttle System and
    99's and newer have no distributor cap and rotor just a computer box called to TCM Throttle Control Module. I think what has been happening to the ABS Tracs module is now happening to the TCM module. Little cracks and the such in the circuit board as the box is connected directly to the manifold. Think how hot that thing must get.
    The constant tempereature fluctuation must be tremendous. From winter cold to 0 or colder to hundreds of degrees day in and day out.

    I can and would expect to pay a decent amount of money to replace these parts but $900 - $1,100 is a bit outrageous.

    rd
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,440
    thanks for clearing that up for me.

    sorry to hear about it.

    all i can say is i'm glad that's one less thing i have to deal with on mine.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • patpat Posts: 10,421
  • jocelynljocelynl Posts: 3
    This must be the month for it. I put my car into the shop this morning because the engine light kept coming on and it wasn't starting properly. The technician just called and informed me that it is the Electronic Throttle System and quoted me a repair cost of $1120.00. I have a 2000 S70 Turbo. Now they told me that it is no longer under warranty. Now isn't the warranty 4 years or 50K miles? If I bought the car new in Nov of 2000 and it has 47K miles shouldn't it still be under warranty till November?
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,440
    did you ask them that question? And, if so, what did they tell you?

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • jocelynljocelynl Posts: 3
    Yes, they are saying that the car came in Sep 99 and they don't know if it was a dealer car or what but the warranty started in Sep of 99. When I bought the car it did have 1129 miles on it. So I don't know, no one ever stated that the warranty started in Sept. 99.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,440
    They don't know?? Are you the original owner? If the car was never title before, then you are and the warranty started from the day YOU bought it. Every warranty I know of states "from date of original purchase." It doesn't matter when it arrived on the dealer's lot.

    Now, the question is, where did you buy it from that they don't know? Was this not a Volvo dealer that you purchased it from? If the dealer you got it from did not get it right from the factory, then, unfortunately, I believe that is a problem because then the title did change hands before you bought it.

    They should easily be able to see if you are the original owner or not.

    And what happened when you originally bought it? Did you buy a new car or a used car?

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

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