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Pontiac Grand Prix - 2000-2005

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Comments

  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    The most reliable GM car I ever owned was my 1986 Olds 442. Bought new in 1986, I sold it in 2000 with 106k miles. It only had 3 problems in 14 yrs.. A/C leak, new exhaust and oil leaks from the valve cover gaskets which was a 307 V8 issue, when I sold it in 2000 every option including A/C worked. The original paint was still in great shape, not bad for a 1986. You either a get a good car or bad one.. it's like rolling dice with GM.

    The worst one I ever bought was a 1985 Olds Ciera with the optional 3.8L V6 that yr, many problems.. engine would accelerate/rev by itself in gear sometimes with the A/C on, talke about dangerous.. the notorious bad/peeling paint. unloaded it in 1992.
  • dan165dan165 Posts: 653
    Midlfe, Congratulations on the coming 04 GP. Let us know when you get it. 80's were bad, we had 2 Accords in that time and I wouldn't consider GM back then.

    ab348, How the seats in the 04 GP equate to a lack of soul, performance and passion I will never understand??

    Gunit, Our 02 Bravada has been very good although it had 2 recall visits which I did with oil changes. Otherwise trouble free. GP is trouble free now for it's first couple of months. So far so good.
  • oldsman01oldsman01 Posts: 1,203
    My father had an 84 Pontiac 6000 which was an ABSOLUTE piece of junk. After that car, he swore GM off. Or at least until I convinced him to test drive a 96 Aurora nearly a decade later. Heck, after the 6000 he started buying Chryslers so you know it had to be a bad car. Anything and everything went wrong on that car. I've had a little better luck with older GM cars. Prior to the Intrigue, I had an 89 Olds Touring Sedan(sporty version of the Ninety-Eight) which I bought used from someone my father worked with. Despite being a product of the 80s and having nearly every electronic feature possible then, it was a pretty trouble free car. Drove it through the latter part of my college years and put it had well over 100K on it when I got the Intrigue. The series I 3800 V6 never used a drop of oil, never leaked a drop of coolant, and never failed to start(except when the battery lost a cell). The car had some squeaks and rattles by the time I traded it, but then again it was 12 years old. Mechanically it was old shcool(rear drum brakes, OHV engine, 4 speed non-electronically controlled transmission) but was not a bad car. My feeling has been that prior to the 97 W-bodies and 99 Alero and Grand Am, the only thing GM had that was any good were their large and thus higher end offerings. Simply put, prior to the Intrigue(or the 97 and up GP) I would not have considered a GM car in this class.
  • carguy58carguy58 Posts: 2,303
    Probably 1996-1997. I thought 1991-1995 were really bad years for GM. GM had did score hits in the 80's with the 88 Grand Prix, 6000, and mid 80's Grand AM. The 92 Grand AM and 92 Boneville were not styled very well and turned off buyers. Mid 80's-early 90's Boneville looked very compact on the exterior.
  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaPosts: 1,543
    Gunit, you have to remember that according to some here GM has never made a car that was less than perfect.

    Dan, nobody who worked for GM in the 60s would let uglycloth (TM Regd) *near* any of their cars. Now according to Lutz it is "richer" fabric than what went before. Excuse me if I question whether the man's much-vaunted image actually has any substance after a comment like that.

    2011 Buick Regal Turbo, 1968 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Holiday Coupe

  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    Dan165, My 2002 GTP coupe has been PERFECT & Troublefree, knock on wood since buying it NEW in September '02. Not even a squeak or rattle, YET. I just hit the 7k mile mark. I'm hoping for the best.

    AB348, Although GM has improved... Squeaks and rattles still plague the W body of 1997 and on, more so then the import competition. I'm sure it's only a matter of time before they surface in my 2002 GTP. I will hope for the best though.

    The best GM rattle and squeak free car I even owned was my 1995 aurora which even in 2001 was squeak/rattle free... i think it used the same platform of the caddilacs? Right now the best rattle/squeak free car I have had is my 2001 Infiniti I30t

     The oil burning issue really burned me on that car. 2 quarts a month. someone has told me that the early Aurora and Caddy Northstar V8's burned oil at higher mileage? something to do with the limp home feature if you ran out of coolant? But supposedly the oil burnign was fixed by 1998? I wonder if any one can shed any light on that topic?
  • b4zb4z Posts: 3,372
    Your Cutlass was RWD which makes a difference in
    durability. Plus that car had a larger rearend than even the camaros of that era.
    I have a friend who put 380,000 miles on their RWD cutlass.
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    b4z, I have heard that before, but, How does RWD make a difference in durability? I have friends with Honda Accord & Toyota Camry & Honda Civic FWD cars that have gone 200K plus trouble free miles too. In fact my neighbor has a 1993 camry with 140k miles , never seen a repair shop for other then maintenance. Still sounds/looks good. No smoke.

    That said, today's FWD cars probably last just as long as the RWD cars in regular driving..
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    You said "GM no longer cares about making cars, just about making money. The soul and passion for style and performance is long dead".

    I think Dan is right on. Performance and styling are right on with the 04 even if the seats don't suit you. Your statement is off base. There is so much raw performance that one could argue they didn't spend enough time on the details, but GP performance on it's own is better than ever and much of it's competition for that matter.
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    We have a 3 1/2 yr old Intrigue (also a W) and it's completely rattle free. Very well screwed together though the fit and finish is not quite up to Honda/Toyota over all. I suspect the 04 GP would be similar and from what I've seen the fit and finish is definitely better on the 04 GP than any previous W.
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    The 1998-2002 Intrigue used the SAME W body platform of the 1997-2003 GP so I wouldn't expect any less front end rattles. You must have gotten a good one, where as I must have gotten a bad one in 1997. with GM it's like rolling the dice. I'm hoping that my 2002 was a good one... knock on wood, perfect so far after 9 months of driving..

    The early Intrigues and W bodies are notorious for front end rattles and 174,000 of the 1999-2001 were recalled for dim or flickering headlights, always a comforting thought. I know the GP of 1997-2003 has weak hi-beams/headlights... Many of the W bodies I have driven, the headlights aren't that powerfull, esp. the hi beams... one complaint of mine. I will be shortly upgrading my 2002 GTP to HID aftermarket lighting, but it won't be cheap. My safety is worth it.

    Why doesn't the new GTP offer HID lighting? yet the maxima has been for years now....??

    Check out W body rack and pinion lockup problems of 1997 and newer...http://www.yfiles.com/GM-Steering-Problem-part2.htm I have never experience this... just happened to see it.

    After extensive driving, the GTP is a competent handler but not as good as the commercial sugges... "Wider is Better" the Intrigue has a wider track. The GTP track is only 1/2 an inch wider then the accord.

    Good car otherwise
  • 04gtpws604gtpws6 Posts: 12
    <<<<<<<<<<<#2255 of 2278 by gunit Jun 15, 2003 (12:04 pm)
    04GTPWS6, what kind of drag racing? A pulley will add 30-40 horse alone on the '97-03 geneartion GTP. Not sure on the mods for the Series 3 3800 yet, though probably similar. My 2002 is tuned to around 300 horse and the 1/4 in the low 14's. Yeah, my modded 2002 GTP has LESS Torque steer then the STOCK Maxima/I35/V6 Altima, which if you ever drove them, have HORRENDOUS torque steer almost to the point of being dangerous in certain driving situations... IE wet pavement. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>&- gt;>>>>>>

    I may not be doing any drag racing because of the crowds at Fontana. Because of the summer heat they race out there at night. Only problem is that you need to be in line at about 11 am or so you can get a run card. Kinda defeats the purpose of the night racing.

    And yes I drove both a Max and Altima immediately after driving the Grand Prix and also couldn't believe the torque steer. If it was just at full throttle that would be one thing, but the car pulled the other direction when you lifted. Way too much work. I don't remember the old Max (with 255 hp) behaving this badly. What happened?
  • 04gtpws604gtpws6 Posts: 12
    <<<<<<<<<Don't confuse the GM that built cars like the '63 GP with today's GM. They share only one thing - the name. GM no longer cares about making cars, just about making money. The soul and passion for style and performance is long dead. Instead we have atrocities like the Aztek and interiors like the '04 GP with uglycloth (TM Regd.). GM used to know how to build great cars, but no one there now remembers that>>>>>>>>>>

    Funny, I seem to recall my 04 GTP having leather not cloth.

    True, GM went to sleep for about 25 years or so, but I think they've got some of the passion back again. I was trying to drive all the cars over the weekend and still couldn't wait until I got home to get the 63 out of the garage. I don't know what there is about it but I sure like driving that one the most
  • 04gtpws604gtpws6 Posts: 12
    <<<<<<<<The 97 had very few issues and that was 5-6 years ago. The new GP is built in the best plant in NA so I personally would have no problem buying one out of the gate.>>>>>>>>>

    I may disagree with some aspects of the design (hard low back seat and difficulty with rearward vision), but I have no issues at with the car. I remember the day not too long ago when you'd return to the dealer, after having your new GM car for a couple of months, with a list two pages long with issues. With the last 8 that I've had in the last ten years the list has been getting real short and now down to nothing.
  • 04gtpws604gtpws6 Posts: 12
    <<<<<<<<<<<#2264 of 2281 04gtpws6 by oldsman01 Jun 16, 2003 (1:20 am)
    That's a pretty neat sampling of cars you have(or have had). Must be interesting going from a DTS to a GTP, but if I guess that also says something about the new GP. I'm still leaning toward an 04 CTS with the 3.6 liter engine, but haven't ruled the GP out completely. Did you lease your GP? If so, when your lease is up in a few years and if your ready to move back up to a Cadillac, the next generation STS should be out. I'm looking forward to seeing what it will offer. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>&- gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    The 04 Grand Prix is my 50th car so I've been around the block a few time, literally and figuratively.

    It was easy to make the change from the DTS to the GP as I think the new grand prix is a better built car. Things are changing quickly at GM. I will probably do a STSv to replace this car a few years from now because I still much prefer to listen to a V8 versus a V6. I would have done a CTS if the new engine would have been out now. The current Opel V6 doesn't thrill me all that much
  • 04gtpws604gtpws6 Posts: 12
    <<<<<<<<<#2273 of 2282 by gunit Jun 16, 2003 (2:50 pm)
     The oil burning issue really burned me on that car. 2 quarts a month. someone has told me that the early Aurora and Caddy Northstar V8's burned oil at higher mileage? something to do with the limp home feature if you ran out of coolant? But supposedly the oil burnign was fixed by 1998? I wonder if any one can shed any light on that topic? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>&- gt;>>>>>

    All four of my Northstar Cadillacs used oil at the rate of 1500-1700 miles per quart. My 2000 DTS uses just as much as my 93 STS did. Never got any worse though, but it's been my only GM cars ever that used oil. Hell, my 63 Grand Prix doesn't use a drop
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    "you must have gotten a good one"

    Maybe. I just love the solid feel of the car and I'm always amazed how well it corners. Like you say, the Intrigue is just as wide as the GP. I really liked our old 98 SE though, it served us well and we planned on keeping it for a long time. 2+ perfect years it served us, nothing but oil and gas. Too bad it had such a short life.
  • regfootballregfootball Posts: 2,166
    cladding still is cladding. the last gen GP had it.
  • orwoodyorwoody Posts: 269
    back seat: I've had the recent pleasure of riding at least 25-35 miles in the back seats of my wife's Volvo V70, my 2003 GP GT, Lexus RX 300 and a Yukon Denali. The only one that was passable was the Yukon. The RX300 was the worst with a severe back rest angle. The GP and the Volvo were a toss up - both not too comfortable for other then short hops.
    Cladding: 1997-2003 was much better(less) than many and less than my 2001 Yukon Denali. It doesn't bother me like a Grand Am or a Mitsubishi Eclipse..
    Cars get better every decade: Those old enough to have driven or owned original 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's and 00 vehicles know this is a fact.
    the 60's was a great decade and into the 70's you could actually repair most of them yourself. And we were young enough to enjoy spending weekends and evenings repairing or maintaining. Brakes every 25-30k, shocks every 30-50k, water pump every 50k, a tranny or engine rebuild at 75-100k... if you got to a 100k with a 60's or 70's vehicle without a rebuild you had all the stars aligned.(no matter what make)
    The 80's were a real mixed bag and the foreign models such as Honda and Toyota got their overall quality levels much better than the domestic brands; even the early Audis were very trouble prone... trouble in the 80's was too many electronics were introduced that the average back yard mechanic couldn't diagnose/repair. The 90's saw a resurgence in most auto manufacturers with reliability gaps being closed by the end of the decade and a renewed interest in making "personal" driving machines verses cookie cutter cars. (Although the domestic mfrs in my opinion now take more styling flare/innovation than the Japanese)
    I think this decade will see a lot more exciting vehicles....
    I've lived through these decades, driving a hand me down 55 International pu to a 2003 GT....with 14 assorted domestic and foreign vehicles in between.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    Excellent post, and I agree totally about the older cars (I had a 1971 AMC Gremlin whose wipers failed about every 6,000 miles--a small clip that could only be found at Cadillac dealers~~it was off, I believe, a '49~~would break and slip off--The Caddy dealer was a friend of Dad's, he would sneer, give it to me, and say next time buy a Fleetwood...as if the particular 18 year old kid I was could afford one. The very last one I ever got before the car died, the parts guy at the Caddy dealer told me it was his last one. Then the car gave up the ghost. To this day, I wonder if there was a connection!).

    I do think that Toyota and Honda still share a slight reliability edge over the domestics, and all studies still confirm it. The perception edge they have with the public is far greater.

    Cladding? My 98 GTP had it, it didn't bother me, and I loved the fact that after a couple of years and 77,000 miles (and more importantly, many parking lots), it didn't have a single door ding.

    As for the back seat, try riding 25-30 miles in an 04 back seat. You may need someone to help you out. It is much lower and has virtually no support, especially in the back rest. I think this is so the seat can go down and become a flat floor. I can't and won't do that to my business clients, so GM lost a sale here. I think they are banking that more sales will be generated from those who are WOWwed by the flat floor feature than lost to people like me. They are probably right, too.

    Just as they think they will make more money by selling more leather seats due to the uglycloth (TM acknowledged), than than they lose due to car sales lost due to it.

    As others have pointed out, we Edmunds posters are not typical of the world at large.

    Oh well, it nudged me toward a Mazda6, which may well happen shortly!
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