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Pontiac Grand Prix - 2000-2005

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Comments

  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    Oldsman01, you were right the GP made 195hp in 1997 at the last minute because of cooling issues, they couldn't safely rate it at 200hp until 1998. The bonny had a 205hp version of the 3800.
      
    Something doesn't sound right when GM bumped the SE 3100 engine from 160 hp in 1997 to 175hp, yet they couldn't do the same with the 3800? Come on !!

    Same thing, for '04 they bump the S/C 3800 to 260, up from 240, yet they keep the regular 3800 at 200 still? same as 1998 !!

    The competition has made such leap and bounds and GM is stuck on the same GT power ratings from 1998....
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    Dindak, Sepak for yourself, 200hp may be good for you, but not for me..... Based on sales, 95% of buyers were NOT happy with 200hp GT because nearly 30% of buyers opted for the GTP's 240 hp each year, that is the only reason I bought the GP was because of that engine, if it only had the 200hp engine, I would have gone with something else... 6.8 vs 8.0 0-60mph is a big difference, especially in safely pulling out onto a highway. The 200hp engine is great off the line and up to 40mph... after 40mph the 3800 runs out of steam. I have had many experiences in GT 200hp Grand Prix as renta cars, that is what I usually rent on business trips all the time. I could never find a GTP rentacar. Again, at 60mph, put the 3800 to the floor, not much, only so-so, where there was a huge dif with the 240 horse engine if you nailed it at 60mph.

    Every try pulling out from a dead stop with 4 people in the car directly on too a highway with no merge lane? You would then appreciate the extra 40 horse!!
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    When I traded my MODDED 1997 GTP Coupe with around 58k miles in 2002, never had a tranny problem, shifted like it was new. I used synthetic tranny fluid wit h an external cooler/shift kit and changed it at 30k miles. I like it better then the 4spd one in my '01 I30t. Shifts crisper before the kits.

     Like you said the GTP gets a more heavy duty version of the 4T65-E Transaxle to handle the extra power. It can take up to 280ft-lbs torque. It can probably take up to 280/300 hp mark, I don't know of the facts on what the rebuild rate of GTP vs GT trannies are. People are probably harder on the GTP. It's a good tranny regardless.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    And yet, I traded my 98 GTP for an 00 Impala LS with the 200 hp engine. Huge difference? No. As satisfying to drive as the GTP? Steering and handling? Yes, it is different but still satisfying. Power? No.
  • dan165dan165 Posts: 653
    I think you completely speak for your self when you say 200hp is not sufficient for a midsize sedan. For the vast majority of car buyers (myself included) the standard 3800 is more than enough power and certainly much more than the hundreds of thousands of 4 cylinder sedan buyers out there. Your power obsession is not shared by most people.

    RE: The DRLs issue you were arguing, your points are very weak to put it mildly. Saving gas? Give me a break!! DRLs have been shown to save lives and cut accident rates. Open you mind to other people's comments, your opinion is yours and not the holly grail.
  • montanafanmontanafan Posts: 945
    Gunit, I can't beleive that everyone in New Jersey is rewiring their cars.

    The anti-DRL sites all link to a "how does it work" article that says DRLs would cost the owners a couple of gallons of gas per year.

    I had a chance to drive the CTS during a recent GM Auto Show in Motion. The center stack in the CTS is the same material and "gain" pattern as the GP,to my eye. (Drove a GP a few minutes latter) The only difference is on the CTS it only forms the Top and Sides of the radio/HVAC box. There was a softer material on the front.
  • dan165dan165 Posts: 653
    Congrats on the new GPs. The 04 family is growing which is nice to see. I have a GT2 which I just love driving. No issues to report aside from a keyed door.

    :-(
  • "Based on sales, 95% of buyers were NOT happy with 200hp GT because nearly 30% of buyers opted for the GTP's 240 hp each year"

    Put me in the category that are happy with 200 HP. I would say that most people are most concerned about their acceleration at low to mid speed range. And I still don't understand how a car's accleration can just peter out once you hit 40 mph. Granted it doesn't have the supercharged push of the GTP, but still it has 230 ft lbs of torque! The 3.5 Altima has 45 more HP but only 16 ft lbs torque. The Accord has 40 more HP, but 18 LESS ft lbs torque. The Camry has 10 more HP, but 10 less ft lbs torque.

    And furthermore, I don't care that the 3800 engine has had 200 HP for the past 8 years or whatever. It gets the job done as far as I'm concerned. I drove a 240 HP Intrepid SXT and the thing couldn't get out of its own way. I test drove a 200 HP Monte Carlo and the car could spin the wheels at will.
  • I love this Edmunds customer review of the GT2 model. Is this person from this planet? Who orders a car without knowing what they're getting??

    "Review: I ordered not knowing the design...bad mistake...this is one ugly Grand Prix. As Vanilla looking as you can get...what were they thinking? Is there anyone home at Pontiac??? And we thought the Aztech was a joke?

    Favorite Features: Rear doors open wide...that about it.

    Suggested Improvements: Fire the design team...put them on the island with the Azteck team!!! Start over!!!"
  • evandroevandro Posts: 1,108
    I'm not unhappy with the 3.8's 205HP on my Bonneville SLE (5 extra HP from freer exhaust), but I'd take 240 or 260HP of the SC anytime. I just couldn't afford an SSEi.

    That been said, HP figures can be misleading, as midlifecrisis suggests. As someone has already said here, the torque figures and the shape of its curve is much more important.

    A good illustration of these statements was a mid-size test by C&D a few years ago, when a GP GT beat every contender under any performance aspect, even if the others had DOHC and valve timing, such as Accord, Maxima, etc. Yet, one wouldn't read more than one line about that in the article...
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    "30% of buyers opted for the GTP's 240 hp"

    So what? That hardly means that people are crying for more power. Most sedans sold are 4 cyl motors with an average of 150hp or less. A 200hp GP is still a very nice and peppy sport sedan, not underpowered in any way. Your obsession with more power is fine, but definitely part of a minority view.
  • "Your obsession with more power is fine, but definitely part of a minority view."

    Very well put....
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    << I test drove a 200 HP Monte Carlo and the car could spin the wheels at will.>> Offl the line, Because of the crappy Good Year Eagle RSA tires spd rated to 130mph they use which have poor traction and limited handling capability, that is why I replaced them the 1st week I got my '02 GTP. Any semi spirited handling and they squeal like no tomorrow. They have to among the worst tires i have ever had. The Monte Carlo SS is the biggest joke out there, esp when a Honda Accord V6 will blow it's doors off, 7 seconds vs 8 seconds 0-60. Finally GM in 2004 get's it right and drops the supercharged 240hp engine in.

    As I have said many times before the 240hp Dodge Intrepid has an inefficient auto tranny which robs alot of hp and is also a heavier/larger car then the W body's. Read previous post

    The std 3800 runs out of steam around 40mph, 40-60 is pathetic..
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    Dan165

    No actually I speak for about 30% of the GP buyers which are GTP buyers. The reason the other 70% don't buy the GTP is because of the money factor, not power factor, both me and you know that. The GTP is about $3k more then a GT. Where else can you get a factory installed supercharger with a 3yr 36k warranty for $3k extra? It would cost you that much more aftermarket. There are many 4 cylinder cars that will blow the doors off a 200 hp 3800 or at least keep right up with it, Civic/Focus etc.

    My pwr obsession is shared by 30% of GP buyers who buy GTPs..... If 200hp is good for you then fine, it isn't for me. whatever.
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    Dindak,

    Sorry to brake the news to you but The GP in SE or GT form is NOT a sport sedan. HARDLY.... Only in GTP form do I consider it close to a sport sedan. Sport sedans have 240 or more horsepower by today's standards. A GT with a 0-60 time of 8 to 8.5 seconds is hardly sporty. There are many 4 cylinder cars that run in that time slot today.

    In fact the new 2004 GT actualy is slower then the old one..

    back in 1997 the GTP was a headturner and powerfull car, today the competition has narrowed the gap big time, while gm rested on its laurels.
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    I think Dan is saying what I am. 30% of GP buyer is only a small percentage of sedan buyers. Most people do not buy or need 240-260 hp even if it was only $1000 more. You are power obsessed, most people are not. Who cares if a few Civics can beat you at a stop light. I know you do, but most don't. It certainly doesn't mean the car is "underpowered". Is that so hard to understand?
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    dindak
     
    Yes I am powered obsessed and have and always will buy the biggest most powerfull engines... also all Maxima and I35 buyers get the 255/265 hp engine standard,

    The fact of the matter is that the 240-260hp is NOT $1k more, it is $3k more... most people I know will NOT pay $3k more, it comes down to price, not power. Also when you buy a GTP you get alot more standard features that are options in the GT, like the HUD and std Abs/traction control. You are getting much more then just PWR for that $3k. Also a GTP is worth more resale value then a SE or GT.

    I modify my cars... I do race them, so for me more is better, for you 200hp is ok, to each their own.
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    FYI.. "sport" has to do with handling and speed, not just 0-60 time.
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    Dindak, the last time I checked 0-60 is part of the speed equation, and FYI.. the GTP does out handle the GT and SE, has a larger anti-roll bar on the suspension and better/bigger wheels.

    The GT and SE are not sports sedans in fact the GTP comes close, but front wheel drive limits it.

    I do NOT consider my GTP coupe a sports coupe or car. Even with all my mods.
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    <<<I'm not unhappy with the 3.8's 205HP on my Bonneville SLE (5 extra HP from freer exhaust), but I'd take 240 or 260HP of the SC anytime. I just couldn't afford an SSEi.>>>

    My point made, the majority of people who DO NOT buy the supecharged engine, didn't beacuse they couldnt' afford it, the extra $3k not because they didn't need 240-260 hp.
    I havea few friends that would have bought the GTP and wanted it but couldn't do to financial reasons.. so they stuck with the GT and later kicked themselves for it.
     

    >>>That been said, HP figures can be misleading, as midlifecrisis suggests. As someone has already said here, the torque figures and the shape of its curve is much more important.<<<

    You are right, you have to compare 0-60 and 1/4 times more then HP or Torque figures... a 215hp INtrigue takes nearly 8 seconds 0-60 while a GTP with only 25 more hp does it in 6.8.
     

    <<>>

    yes back then in 1997 or 1998 the GT did break even or beat the competion, but fast forward to NOW, 2004, the GT is still the same car it was back in 1997, same engine, while that same competition has make their cars peform much better, with GM resting on its laurels.
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