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Pontiac Grand Prix - 2000-2005

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Comments

  • jlgoldenjlgolden Posts: 32
    I've had my 2004 GP GT1 for almost a year now, and have 32000 mostly trouble-free miles on it. After a terrible experience with a 2001 Alero, I swore I'd have to go back to the imports, but the new Grand Prix has restored my faith in GM products! It's a great highway cruiser that offers alot of power, style, and features for the price, (factoring in the $$$ rebates of course). Sorry to hear of others' not-so-great experiences with their GPs. There will always be a tiny few who have a hard time with a certain car... even blessed Toyotas, Mazdas, and Hondas.
  • rkw2rkw2 Posts: 66
    I have a GT1. I terminated my lease in a special GM early termination program on my 2000 Alero ( a piece of crap). Even when parked in a garage, the car will not cool down properly. I need to be driving at 55 mph plus in order to get and keep teh car comfortably cooled but nit as cold as Ilike it. I think part of the problem is the large front and rear window. I find that a lot of heat comes from the top of teh dash. Other than this I am very happy with the car....it has a better ride, lots more power and comfort thatn the Alero and gets better gas mileage. I also wish it was sized more like a Camry or Accord.
  • idntnvuidntnvu Posts: 251
    My dad has a '98 GP GT. On Sunday, I was driving it, and had rolled the windows down (it's a two door), and when I decided to roll the windows back up, the passenger window went up slowly, but without incident (both windows have always been rather slow going up) but when I went to put the driver's window up, it started going up extremely slowly, and then smoke started pouring out of rocker switch on the door. I didn't want the window to get stuck in the down position, so I kept going until the smoke got real bad, and the window lacked about 2 inches of reaching the top. Then, when I tried to make it go up again, it wouldn't do anything. I kept rocking the switch back and forth until it finally shot up that last 2 inches really fast, with another puff of smoke from the switch, and now the window will not go down at all. I know a large portion of GM vehicles have had a history of power window switches and motors going out, but I'm not sure what this was, the switch or the motor. Anyone else have a clue? I'd think the switch shorted out, but electronics can be confusing. Has anyone else with GP's had a similar problem? What was the fix for it? And the most important thing, what kind of $$$ are we talking about to fix it? Any info is helpful, Thanks!

    idntnvu
  • dan165dan165 Posts: 653
    I think you must have a lemon because the Grand Prix owners I know of (3) all seem to have pretty much trouble free cars. It's too bad, but I'm sure you will enjoy the "Hemi" powered 300C. I have seen hundreds of them pass me on the highway on trucks as I live 20 km from the plant in Brampton ON. Only down side on the car as far as I can see is the mileage #s on them. No worse than an SUV though!
  • idntnvuidntnvu Posts: 251
    My dad took his car to the dealership near where he works (Superior Pontiac in West Jefferson, NC), told them what was wrong and left it this morning. This afternoon he returned after work to pick it up, and was told it was the switch itself that needs to be replaced, at a cost of $72 for the part and $50 to put it in. All it takes is popping out the switch plate, unhook the wires, take the switch faces off, remove the old switch box, put the new one on, put the faces back on, hook it back up, pop it back into the door. It can be done in 5 minutes. They did not check the window motor. Dad said the guy at the service counter didn't act like he wanted to be there...wasn't helpful, didn't care etc...and when he went to get in his car, he noticed it was very hot...and he noticed someone had opened the shade on the sunroof...I take that back, hadn't opened it, but SHOVED it back inside the headliner. Now, it's stuck, and won't come back out to cover the sunroof. Now, tell me, at what point would the service technician need to open the sunroof shade in order to check the switch panel ON THE DOOR?!?!? What an idiot. Dad and I worked for a good 45 minutes trying to get the shade back out, but no luck. He's almost afraid to take it back tomorrow due to the fear they may tear something else up. The car was clean as a whistle too, and now theres grease and crap all inside the car. If Pontiac's supposed "factory trained technicians" are this sloppy and careless, you can count anyone in my family out of ever owning another one. Anyone else had their sunroof shade get stuck?
  • bobinnjbobinnj Posts: 22
    Well, not being an HVAC engineer, I am going to speculate that the problem we may be experiencing is an underpowered AC unit. I say that because if I keep the car in the dark garage over night, it cools down fairly well. However, with it sitting in the sun for several hours, and the interior cabin temp over 90F, that is when I notice inadequately refrigerated air coming out of the vents. So when the cooling requirements are minimal, it's up to the job. When you put a big load on it - it can't handle it. Kind of when everyone used window unit AC's and you tried to cool a large bedroom with a low BTU rated unit - took a long time to cool, if ever. Going up to bigger BTU rated unit did the job. Since you have the GT1, I think we can rule out the non S/C vs. S/C engine issue. Bottom line - I think they decided to go with a lower BTU-rated compressor to 1) cut costs, 2) cut size/weight, 3)both? I don't have access to the AC unit BTU specs on the '04 GP,but I'd love to know if it's gone down since the '03 model year. Anyone can find that out?
  • bobinnjbobinnj Posts: 22
    FYI: Just got called by Pontiac customer service (they know me by now because I've been complaining about my AC problem). No help on the AC, but they did inform me of a current recall on the '04 GP. Apparently models made after Aug. '03, may have a loose connector in the rear brake line. Contact your dealer to have it checked. He didn't say anything about a possible recall on the defective front frame, that someone mentioned. Anyone have more info on that?
  • bobinnjbobinnj Posts: 22
    Maybe they need to change their name to "Mr. BADwrench"? Seriously - I'd contact Pontiac Customer Service and report the problem. They'll inform the dealer of what happened. I'd write a letter to the dealership owner too. He should be made aware of the unprofessional way that mechanic did the job. Nothing like bad word-of-mouth advertising about a dealer's service shop to drive away customers. If I were the dealer, this guy would be history. Good luck.
  • fantascpfantascp Posts: 175
    Just punched in some part #'s at rock auto parts- re A/c compressor and A/c condensor- for the 2002,03 and 04 GP

    the prior generation GP's- have a different A/c Compressor and Condensor-
    I did not do the complete list of all the a/c parts- pulleys etc- just the two big items.

    the 02 and 03 GP/s- Supercharged and N/A's- 3.8
    v-6's have the same unit
    AC Delco Compressor #1520452- $349.75
    AC Delco- Condenser- #156961

    The 04 GP'S- Supercharged and N/A's have:
    AC Delco Compressor- #1521133- $365.79
    AC Delco Condenser - #1580463

    Maybe these Part #'s can help you find out the BTU'S?

    It is a different unit than the 03's and older.
  • bobinnjbobinnj Posts: 22
    Thanks for finding out the AC compressor and condenser part #'s. It's interesting they used the same exact units in '02 and '03 GPs. A family member has an '03 GP and has no complaints re: cooling. I strongly suspect they replaced their AC components with lower rated units, for either cost or size considerations. IF anyone has access to GP shop manuals, maybe the BTU ratings are listed.
  • fantascpfantascp Posts: 175
    It may very well be the same AC Condenser and Compressor for the GP'S going back to the late 90's model also- I just did the 02 and 03 for a quick comparison-
    If you have time, go to Rockauto.com and bring up the list prior to 02 to see if its still the same units.

    *as an after thought, i put in the GTO for 04 - Obviously with that big engine etc- completely different units.*
  • fantascpfantascp Posts: 175
    narrowed it down further for you:

    From 1997 to 2003- both the GT and GTP have the same Compressor and Condenser

    Prior to 97 it was a different condensor and compressor model #'S (1996, 1995 )
  • bobinnjbobinnj Posts: 22
    Appreciate you digging into the AC components for the GP's. Obviously, they made a change for '04. Now if I could just get a comparo on the compressor specs, that might answer the question. They must have had reason for changing and, although it won't help me, hopefully they'll change back or resdesign the AC so it operates more efficiently. It definitely does not cool as well as most of the cars I've owned or ridden in. In meantime, for anyone considering buying a new GP ('04 or later) - 'caveat emptor'.
  • dan165dan165 Posts: 653
    No complaints with our 04. It works.

    I wonder why they changed and I wonder if the new ones have some cooling issues for some people? This is the first I have heard of the problem.
  • evandroevandro Posts: 1,108
    IIRC, many accessories are now attached to the engine block of the 3.8 Series III. I'm not very sure about the compressor, but the alternator now is (just hope it doesn't suffer from problems as that on the 3.5 DOHC did). Regardless, a simple change as different anchorage points would be enough to deserve a new part #, even if it's otherwise the same part. Therefore it's hard to assume that it's a wholly new compressor because of a different part #. The only way to find out is by comparing their specs, which is hard to come by...
  • fantascpfantascp Posts: 175
    This is going to be a little winded, but I have a lot of info for you.

    I had my 03 GT in for routine maint. etc this morning.(Local Pontiac Dealership)
    I got to talking with the parts dept people while waiting and asked them what was the difference
    between the 03 and 04 regarding refrig etc (R134A)

    They went into the service.gm.com site -(need a password to get the good stuff naturally!)

    They printed out a REFRIGERANT SYSTEM CAPACITIES sheet for me on both vehicles- 03 and 04.

    Your not going to like the numbers, but I'll recommend other options after this:

    R134A Refrig Charge- DOCUMENT ID # 960490- 2004 GP- 1.05(KG) or 2.3LBS

    DOCUMENT ID # 847987- 2003 GP- .997 (KG) 0r 2.2LBS
         
    The BTU rating for R134A Refrig (from another site I looked up) is approx 93 BTU'S per lb.

    Doing basic math 04 GP- 2.3 X 93 = approx 214BTU'S
                     03 GP- 2.2 X 93 = approx 205BTU'S

    If the above numbers are correct, the 04 has the HIGHER BTU rating.

    I know you said that you had it to two GM Dealerships to be checked out - dye test for leaks etc.

    I also spoke to the service dept- they said when they have a complaint -re-a/c not working right- they would completely purge the entire system- refill the PAG OIL etc- Re-charge with R-134A- check for leaks- (dye test etc.)- replace all "0" rings in system.

    (*Side note here- They said they have not had any complaints they are aware of regarding A/C not being cold enought etc on 04 GP'S)

    Did either one of your Dealerships do this for you or did they just test with dye?
    Also they said they WOULD NOT normally check under your dash to see if the Evaporator was mal-functioning, but this is another area to consider.
    (The Evaporator was also changed from 03 to 04)
    03- Part# 1562692
    04- Part# 1562962

    One last question- What Dealerships did you go to?
    I also live in NJ- (Northwestern part of the state)
  • I don't believe you mentioned trying this (if you did, nevermind :-):

    We noticed the A/C wasn't too cold (even down to 5 blue pegs and full blower) a few weeks ago. The car was due for the 15,000 mile service (actually have 17,600 on it) and one of the things the manual says to change at 15K is the Passenger Cabin Air Filter. I had to tell the service dept. about this since it wasn't part of their routine 15K schedule :-|

    Granted, it hasn't been quite as hot here the last week or so, but boy what a difference! It's like that NAPA commercial with Mikey & Dale Jr. in the "frozen" car on the beach. I can only bring the dial down to about 3 blue pegs and it's too darn cold already!

    Just thought that might be the issue here.
  • idntnvuidntnvu Posts: 251
    I've told my dad several times he needs to call Pontiac, but he won't do it. He finally got the shade fixed himself yesterday, and is going to order a window switch from the local dealer closest to where we live (about 15 minutes away). The first dealership he went to was the one near where he works in NC. Just gonna order the switch and put it in at home, forget about the dealer. I totally agree with the "Mr. BADwrench" idea. I'm going to tell dad one more time he needs to call Pontiac and write/call the dealer, and if he doesn't, I may just do it myself. We try to avoid dealerships at all costs because this is the sort of thing that always happens. First of all you get ripped off, because they charge an arm and a leg for nothing, then they always seem to tear more up than they fix. We have better luck going to Joe Schmo's garage.
  • rkw2rkw2 Posts: 66
    At the 3000 servicing at the end of April I complained about the AC. Some things were done to correct it (I had to leave the car as I could not wait for it) I'm not sure exactly what they did as it did not appear on my receipt. But I read some things on the warranty work papers I signed. I should have requested a copy but did not. Then again in June when I was there for the 6000 mile servicing I also complained. The service manager told me that it was registering 55 degrees which is colder than standard. I was driving yesterday in the rain with the ac on. The car was cold , but I noticed when I went to change radio stations, the radio was almost hot to the touch. I just feel that the big front and rear windows combined with the heat being emitted off of the dash board when it it is in the cause.
    I've gone to Freehold Pontiac, Buick GMC in Freehold NJ. I've been pleased with the service there.
  • fantascpfantascp Posts: 175
    Al,

    Need your professional opinion regarding the 04 GP
    A/C problems for bobinnj, rkw2, etc.

    Anything else to look for?

    Thanks,

    Chuck.
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