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Pontiac Grand Prix - 2000-2005

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Comments

  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    Rascalman:

    I only have 7K on my Grand Prix GT, so I can't tell you anything about long-term reliability.

    The initial quality, however, is very good on my particular car. I have absolutely no complaints, and there have been zero trips back to the dealer for adjustments or fixes.

    I love the power and the handling. I have the 1SC package with leather, and I like the automatic temperature control. You just set your temperature like the thermostat in your house and forget about messing with temperature controls and fan speeds- it decides for itself what it needs to do to maintain your comfort.

    I am very happy with the gas mileage. I have gotten 29.9 mpg twice on strictly highway and I get around 22 to 23 on highway/city mixed driving.

    I've never run out an entire tank of gas strictly doing city driving only, so I don't know what it would do in that situation, but the on-board computer shows some awfully low numbers on a fresh tank of gas before I get any highway driving done.

    Hope this helps in your decision.

    tsjay
  • broncodavebroncodave Member Posts: 26
    Take it from me, a former GP owner, and run like heck away from the Grand Prix. IMO, putting your wife in the car is spousal abuse. Check my other posts on Edmunds to read of my experience with the GP.

    PS. If the dealer won't answer your questions now, how do you think you will be treated if you come in with a problem?
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    I've had two GPs (one saved my life in a bad wreck).

    First, the transmission/engine combo has been used in many GM makes for a lot of years and has proven to be very reliable.

    These are very quick, smooth, good looking, safe cars.

    broncodave has had some sort of transmission glitch, but doesn't know the cause. I've viewed his posts here and other GP boards and something doesn't quite add up with his problems outside of the claim that his tranny wouldn't shift into 4th gear. He's been posting for two years on another GP board. AAMCO told him they wanted to put in a new trans as did his dealer well after his warranty was up. Still don't know the cause (why wouldn't the GM dealer or AAMCO tell him the cause?). There's a piece of this story that he's not telling us.
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • broncodavebroncodave Member Posts: 26
    Alright graphicguy, I am going to tell you one more time.

    First, I am not a transmission engineer. If I was, I would have done the work myself.
    (why wouldn't the GM dealer or AAMCO tell him the cause?).

    Neither GM nor AAMCO was able to tell what caused the problem. The transmission suffered a catastrophic failure that ruined all of the soft parts and the torque converter. A complete overhaul was necessary. Both the dealer and AAMCO confirmed it. The symptom was the car would not shift into 4th gear. What caused it could have been any number of things. The transmission was so screwed that they couldn't be sure.

    I offered on numerous occasions to meet with GM and let them examine the parts. GM has refused. Would you like to examine the parts and make a conclusion? That is the only part of the Grand Prix I have left other than the hole in my wallet. Maybe then you could tell me what part of the story that I have left out because I sure don't know of one.

    My next post will be a copy of my first letter to GM. You read it and then post back on what I may be holding back.
  • broncodavebroncodave Member Posts: 26
    September 16, 1998

    Mr. John F. Smith, Jr.

    CEO and President

    General Motors Corporation

    3044 W. Grand Blvd.

    Detroit, MI 48202

    Dear Mr. Smith:

    The purpose of this letter is to inform you about the repairs to the transmission of my 1997 Pontiac Grand Prix and seek reimbursement for the repairs. Up until this month I was pleased with my Grand Prix. However, as you can tell from the enclosures I am very disappointed with the durability of the car, specifically the transmission.

    Before I detail the problem with the transmission, I wish to provide you with some personal information so that I am not just "another angry face". I am 24 years old. This is my first car that I have purchased completely on my own. I am a third generation GM car owner. Both sides of my grandparents drove GM cars and my parents have always owned GM cars. I guess you could say I grew up in a GM family. My first car was a Chevy Beretta. I drove this car from high school, through college, and during my first year as a working accountant. I took my future wife out on our first date in that car. I will be married the 25th of this month and she owns a Pontiac Sunfire. Her parents are GM owners too. Like most cars, the Beretta had accumulated high mileage. I had two choices. I could spend the money to have the routine high mileage maintenance performed or I could buy a new car. Since my parents own a 1994 Grand Prix, I looked into the GT coupe. I purchased the car in October of 1996. Since I live a distance from my office one of the major factors in purchasing the car was durability. Shortly after the purchase of the Grand Prix I opened a GM credit card account to accumulate money for my next car. This would probably be a family car. As you can tell, my family and myself have been loyal GM car owners.

    Now my loyalty has been shaken. Consumer Reports stated " The Grand Prix is a good value, considering what’s included in the price, if it proves reliable". It has not proven reliable. I have had the transmission on the Grand Prix overhauled at only 52 thousand miles. The total cost of this was $1,786.10 This is an extraordinary amount of money to pay for a major repair on a car that was not even two years old. I have to question if this is how GM is building their cars? This was a premature failure due to a defect with the GM made transmission. I should not have to pay for a major repair so soon after the warranty has expired. This reflects poorly on Pontiac to have made a vehicle that needs such an expensive and major repair with only 52 thousand miles on it. For this reason, I am seeking Pontiac to reimburse me for the work that had to be done on the car. I have demonstrated product loyalty now I am asking for Pontiac to stand behind its product not because it has to, but because it is the right thing to do.

    As you can see from the receipt of the transmission bill, I had to take the car to an AAMCO dealer since the Pontiac dealer that I purchased the car from could not repair the car. I took the car to the dealership for a diagnosis. The car would not shift into 4th gear at freeway speed. When I received a call from the service representative, I was informed that the entire transmission needed to be replaced for a cost of $2,700.00. Naturally, a car with 52 thousand miles on it should not be having a complete transmission replaced, so I began to press for a more detailed explanation of the problem. It was then suggested that I take the car elsewhere if I did not want the transmission replaced. I picked up the car later that morning. I again pressed as to why the transmission could not be repaired instead of a total replacement. It was finally admitted to me that the dealership does not have a technician that is competent in repairing a transmission. It appears that the dealership would rather replace a transmission at a huge cost than be forthright with a customer that it’s technician cannot repair the car. This is misleading and unethical. This too, casts a poor reflection upon Pontiac and General Motors. To add insult, my oil was mysteriously changed. I was very specific as to why I brought the car in for service. I even left a note. No where was a oil change mentioned. This once again calls questions to competence. I bring in the car to have the transmission looked at and the oil gets changed? Would you want your car fixed by a dealership that demonstrates such incompetence? I have contacted the owner of the dealership and I am awaiting his response. For the above reasons, I did not have the work done at a Pontiac dealership. For the reasons stated above, the fact that the car was not repaired at a dealership should not be a reason for denying me reimbursement for the repairs.

    I am very disappointed with my car. A car that cost $23 thousand dollars should last longer than a Yugo. To have to replace the torque converter and all soft parts and some of the hard parts of the transmission this soon is unacceptable. The transmission was defective from mile 1 and it just became symptomatic at 52 thousand miles. It is still a defective. Mileage should not matter. Your competitor, Toyota has fixed defects with its exhaust manifolds free of charge with as many as 120 thousand miles on a car. This was not a recall but a company standing behind the product it sells. Is it any wonder why the Toyota Camry is such a great selling car?

    It is amazing to me that General Motors has been able to design spark plugs and engine coolant that do not need servicing for 100 thousand miles. It is unacceptable that a transmission should not last as long. When the Grand Prix was modified for 1997, Pontiac "talked up" the fact that the new engine would contain more torque than horsepower. In the ’96 models, a 3.4L V6 with 210 HP was the upgrade engine. I wonder if this was a wise engineering decision. It would appear that the engine has too much torque for the transmission to handle. This is the opinion of the mechanic who has worked on 8 other Grand Prix’s including mine. I have some of the original parts of the transmission. One part in particular shows metal to metal abrasions, warping caused by a forceful impact and scoring that should not occur. I will be more than happy to meet with an engineer to show the parts of the transmission. However, I do not wish to meet with anyone that does not have the empowerment to settle this problem. My time is important and I have already been inconvenienced too much with this problem as it is. With the torque converter also having to be replaced it leads me to believe that Pontiac has a problem.

    I call your attention to the enclosures that came with this letter. The first exhibit (labeled 1) is the transmission bill. As I am sure you are aware, the Internet is a powerful tool that has global appeal. I call your attention to the web site, www.GrandPrix.net. This site is a Grand Prix owners site. Over 125 thousand people have visited this site. Under the "GP Problems" section I have posted the enclosed. In response to this message I have received messages from other owners. They too have had similar problems. Most of them were fortunate to still be covered under warranty. They are awaiting the outcome of this situation as well. Next, you will find Exhibit 3a-d. These are the Technical Service Bulletins related to the transmissions. Review of these TSB’s leads me to believe that Pontiac is aware of a problem. After that you will find the postings on GrandPrix.net of other Grand Prix owners that have had transmission problems. Finally, you will find the Consumer Reports summary page for the 1997 Grand Prix.

    As you can tell below I have decided to copy many organizations in on this letter. I have not filed a complaint with the Better Business Bureau at this point. I feel it best at this time, however, to copy them in on this situation. I am hoping that I do not have to file a complaint with them. I am also copying Consumer Reports on this problem as well since their article questions the reliability of the car. I am also copying various consumer and government agencies as they should be aware of a vehicle that has a premature failure due to a possible defect.

    Mr. Smith, I want to be perfectly clear, I will not stop until this situation is resolved. As I am sure you are aware, the conventional wisdom in the auto industry is that it takes 10 years to "repair" a dissatisfied customer. The best advertisement for product is a satisfied customer. Right now I cannot offer an advertisement for the Grand Prix. I have read recently that General Motors has lost market share. I wonder if problems like I have had are the reason why. I would like very much to e-mail everyone and post messages on Internet sites that Pontiac did the right thing and stood by their product. If this situation is satisfied, I will do just that. I hope very much that your action will allow me to do so. Please contact me to resolve this situation. I will be on my wedding/honeymoon from September 22nd to October 3rd. As you can see this could not have happened at a worse time. I now head to my wedding and new home $1,786.10 lighter in the wallet due to a car that should not have major problems. I eagerly await your response.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    Broncodave...please take some advice given in a non-confrontational manner from someone who is a bit older and perhaps wiser than you.

    First and foremost, I "skimmed" the above letter, didn't read it through and through. My guess is neither did GM.

    Second, if someone wanted to charge me $1,700 for any product or service, I'd want to know why it failed and exactly why their solution fixes it. To simply say that you are not technical is acting like an ostrich....putting your head in the sand. If, as you say, that the transmission was defective from "mile 1", then you should have had it serviced at "mile 1".

    Third, you are negotiating from a position of weakness. Your warranty was up. Your dealer had no responsibility whatsoever to you. What you wanted was some sort of relief for the repair. What you should have done was appeal to the dealer to keep you as a customer by speaking to GM on your behalf for partial relief for the repair bill in a calm, respectful way. They are the ones with the power (remember, your warranty was up). What you did was try to "bully" your way to get what you wanted. The response of the dealer/GM (or lack of one) is not unexpected in this case.

    I repeat, since your trans was experiencing difficulties from the very beginning as you claim, you should have had it repaired while it was still in warranty.

    A faulty transmission doesn't last 52K miles, unless it was abused over time.

    My guess is that your dealer didn't respond to your satisfaction becuase your demands were unreasonable (give me a new transmission after my warranty has been up for almost 20K miles or I'm going to whine and whine and whine).

    My guess is that the BBB didn't do much with your case since you were out of warranty and you gave no culpable reason to your dealer or GM to make an exception.
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • broncodavebroncodave Member Posts: 26
    I am not being confrontational with you. I don't even know you and you don't know me. But you have made some assumptions that are not correct. You really have to understand the entire situation to understand my position.

    First, I did ask about what caused the failure. AAMCO said that the failure was catastrophic and because there was so much damage it was not possible to tell what lead to the problem.

    Second, what I was saying in the first letter is that the transmission was defective (design flaw)from day one. In other words, GM put a defective car on the market. It was SYMPTOMATIC at 52K. There was never ANY indication of a problem until it happened. Therefore, it could not have been fixed before.

    Here is an excerpt from my final letter to GM and the dealer after I purchased the Honda:

    "Before I left, I asked that a call be put in to General Motors about the transmission. Mr. Pappas stated, "we haven't been able to fix them yet. GM doesn't even know what is wrong with them or how to fix them." No assistance was ever offered in verifying a manufacturing defect or calling General Motors for an appropriate repair procedure. His only comment was "You call GM." This was completely wrong. This statement led me to take the car to AAMCO and had the transmission overhauled. After all, if GM doesn't know what is wrong with them, then shouldn't I go elsewhere?"

    Does this sound like to you that I was unreasonable? Does that sound like I was trying to "bully" the dealer?

    Like I said in all of the other posts, it was the dealer that screwed me first by not following policy and then GM by backing the dealer when he was wrong. Yes, I knew the warranty was up I knew what position I was in. I like Ronald Reagan would rather bargin from a position of strength. I also knew that GM had replaced transmissions under "goodwill adjustments" as well. That is exactly what I was looking for: a reduction in cost.

    The BBB reference was for the dealer as somehow he thought I wanted an oil change to go with the transmission problem. I copied him in on the letter.

    Tomorrow I will post my final letters as I don't have them on disk with me. I will also post GM's form letters. That way you can read them all, know all the facts and then pass judgement if you wish.
  • rascalmanrascalman Member Posts: 2
    I appreciate your info dave as well as anyone else. This car purchase will our first new car. My biggest concern is with the cooling system. My parents had a Chevy Lumina Euro sport. The cooling system design has me worried. They blew a head gasket and got water on the heads ($$$$$). Also the alternator would go out every 8 mo. after the warrenty was out. There were numerous other problems, but I want go into those. Under the hood these vehicals are the same. But so far I have not been given any info that documents any changes they made to alleviate these problems. If anyone can give me a direction to look I would appreciate it.
  • ruskiruski Member Posts: 1,566
    I don't think that the new Pontiac Grand Prix GT or GTP is the same under the hood as a Chevrolet Lumina Euro Sport. First of all the Grand Prix has the 3.8L engine. What did the Lumina have?
  • mcdillmcdill Member Posts: 180
    broncodave ,just because you had these problems doesnt mean that everyone else will have the same experience you did, unless we were talking about kia's.
  • darkhalfdarkhalf Member Posts: 3
    I am just curious if anybody has heard any information about the redesigned grand prix for 03' or 04'?
  • broncodavebroncodave Member Posts: 26
    I never said that they would all the problems that I did. However, I think someone who is interested in buying a car should hear both good and bad ownership stories in order to make an informed decision.
  • mattchalmersmattchalmers Member Posts: 159
    I am not sure that I would have dealt with the situation in the same way Dave, but I can appreciate your frustration. I believe graphicguy's point on the confrontation issue is that when you give an ultimatum to some one like GM they are more likely to let you go buy a Honda. In their mind they already lost you as a customer so why spend $1,700 to help you out?

    Now for my experience. I totally agree with you that the problem was there from day 1. I had a 99 GP GT Sedan that I also bought brand new as my first car. My family is deeply GM as multiple members have been or are still employees. My GP was in the shop for over 20 business days the first year, not counting the 45 calendar days for bodywork (body shop was inept). I had a new transmission put in, drove it out of the service department and the driveability problem was still there. Next day I had a flat tire (nail). That was not the dealer's fault though because they admitted to flattening the right front not right rear. I digress, after the new transmission was already in they found out, by driving the car with a Tech 1 or 2 attached that the torque converter was engaging and disengaging repeatedly while shifting from 3rd to 4th. This was tearing the tranny to pieces. They downloaded new software to the computer and the problem was fixed.

    I had a sit down with the dealer's service manager and the GM district service manager. They spent 2 hours explaining to me that every car has problems and I am just hung up on the past problems. Suffice it to say I was not happy, I pulled rank (which I did NOT want to do) and got the car bought back.

    Because of the inept local dealer I did not buy another GP and instead bought a Catera (which has been great).

    This is only anecdotal evidence, but I do think there is a problem with the transmission system in the GPs that may or may not be fixed in 2000. It is very hard to know because for the last three years Pontiac/GM has refused to admit that a problem existed.

    My sympathy goes out to you Dave, you got bent over a barrel and the only thing I can tell you is what I told the GM rep, "I can only vote with my money. You will not listen to me now, but 40+ years of future car buying will speak for itself."
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    What I've always contended to be true is being born out by what I'm hearing here. The dealer is the link between you and the manufacturer. Dealer service equates directly to the perception of your ownership experience, be it good or bad.

    Broncodave, in your situation, the dealer had no idea what went wrong. That's unacceptable. I would have hauled it to another dealer to get a better answer. AAMCO has been invetigated by the FTC for trying to put a new or overhauled transmission in just about every car that comes in to their shops, whether faulty or not. Fact is, your original dealer didn't feel compelled (because you were out of warranty and they weren't looking for your repeat business) to give you a straight answer. They are a bad dealer and left you with a bad ownership experience. If, as the transmission guys said, that your trans wouldn't shift into 4th gear was caused by some catastrophe, then every catastrophic event has to have some cause. How else would you know how to keep the problem from happening again, if you don't know the cause?

    I would be that if the dealer told you what went wrong and what they were going to do to fix it AND appealed to GM on your behalf with some sort of relief, your story would be different.

    mattchalmers--I had a buyback from BMW several yers ago. Had to fight tooth and nail to get it done, but I went through arbitration to "win the day". I haven't bought another BMW since then, but I don't condemn the brand, just the dealer. If the dealer is competent enough to fix problems, then your buyback, my buyback wouldn't have been neccessary.

    I'll repeat what I've said before. GM has put millions of the 3.8L/4 speed trannys (the only way they come) on the road. They put the same combo in the GPs. This is a proven design. Leave it to an inept dealer to srew something up.

    That's why I shop the dealer and much as I shop for the car or the price.
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • broncodavebroncodave Member Posts: 26
    You both are absolutely right. I did make some mistakes and I learned a lot from them.

    granphicguy-- At the point in time I was ready to buy another GM despite the transmission problem. The dealer had he done right would have earned repeat business.

    mattchalmers-- you couldn't be more right about GM denying anything is wrong.

    I hold the dealer accountable for not following procedure and GM for backing up the dealer when he was wrong. It all come down to who owns the issue. The dealer says "we just sell them". GM says "we just build them". In the end, it is the customer that looses.

    My next post is my final letter to the owner of the dealership. If you never read another one of my posts then please read this next one; it will explain a lot.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    Don't be so hard on yourself (and I appologize for being so judgemental). You've said your peace. I doubt you'll get much response from the dealer as they no longer have any "skin" in the game. A lesson was learned, unfortunately at your $1,800 expense.

    I will grant you, that there seems to be inordinate amount of "below acceptable" dealerships that operate in this country. I think that some of the "old thought" dealerships out there still exist that believe their responsibility for their products and services begins and ends when you drive the car off the lot. They are ususally easy to spot from the way they handle the sales end of things.

    If they seem to "churn" through their sales people quickly, then it is a more than even bet that they do so in the service area, too. Ususally, if they have a "seasoned" sales and service staff, it means that they care about their employees and it turn, their customers.

    There is a Pontiac dealer in my town that has been in business and in the same family for almost 60 years. None of their sales folks have been there more than 6 months (that's why I've never bought a car from them).

    Good luck with your new car (what'd you get?) and stop back from time to time and tell us how you're doing.
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • broncodavebroncodave Member Posts: 26
    I do appreciate your comments. Your comments were very tame considering some of what I got from posting on some of the Grand Prix boards.

    You are right about the dealerships. I went to no fewer than 5 different Honda dealerships before I purchased the Accord. Three of them I wouldn't even consider buying from because they were unhelpful in the selling process. I knew if I ever had a problem they would not address it. It isn't just GM that has crappy dealers.

    The dealership that I purchased the Accord from was great. I got a quote over the web and came in for the test drive. The only other thing to decide was the value of the Grand Prix for the trade-in. I got a good value based on Kelly Blue Book and was in the Accord in less than 2 hours. I really liked the fact that the purchase price was set before I walked in the door. I got a pretty good deal too $100 over true invoice.

    As part of my purchase I requested to have a face to face meeting with the service manager before I signed on the dotted line. I told him what my expections are if I ever came in with a problem. He sat back and smiled and said "Is that why you aren't buying another Pontiac? I told him it was. He said "they must have really done you wrong to come in here and talk to me before you purchased. I haven't seen a customer your age do that before."

    Live and learn I guess. As a side note, I never did hear from the dealer or GM after my last letter but I didn't expect to either.
  • ruskiruski Member Posts: 1,566
    if there was an inherent problem with the transmission, would Volvo or BMW buy these trannies from GM? The fact is that Volvo's flagship S80 uses the same exact tranny.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 13,665
    Good luck with your Accord. My sister just bought one and loves it.

    She's younger than I am (by a substantial margin) and thinks I'm a dink for buying a "spots car" (she thinks anything with big tires is a sports car) at my advanced age (early 40s). Sigh!!!!!!!
    2023 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring
  • mattchalmersmattchalmers Member Posts: 159
    The fact is that there is an inherent problem (there have been multiple bulletins, but no recall) with the transmission. I cannot answer why it is sold or bought to or by Volvo or any other auto manufacturer. I in no way meant to offend you sensibilities, only to state the obvious. In my case the problem was one of software from the beginning. There was no mechanical defect in the transmission itself, but the software problem led to symptoms. A failure would have followed if I had not forced the issue with the dealer.
  • mattchalmersmattchalmers Member Posts: 159
    There is no doubt about the short-sighted nature of GM currently. I went to Cadillac after having the GP bought back. I only regret that GM does not do the right thing more of the time. Most have the attitude that and I quote, "No car is perfect and you need to get past the fact that you have had so many problems in the past with this car. The fact is that it is fixed now and who wouldn't want to have a car with 25,000 miles and a new transmission?"

    All you can do Dave is vote with your dollars and your feet. Find a dealer that will treat you right that has a quality product and you should be fine. As for Honda, no doubt about quality, if you got a good dealer you should be fine.

    Good luck.
  • carrjarcarrjar Member Posts: 6
    Does anyone know if the Grand Prix will be the updated radios that debuted in the Bonneville?

    Or about any other changes for 2001?

    Also, I read that GM is redoing the Kansas Plant where the Grand Prix (and Intrigue) are made. So it looks like new Models for 2003 and they will use a the Epsilon platform.
  • tdheimtdheim Member Posts: 3
    Went to a different dealer. They discovered a "worn" tie rod end. So far water pump and
    tie rod end in 10k miles and 8 months. Getting a little concerned about long term reliability. I have noticed when shifting into drive while care is rolling backwards will generate a real skip in the transmission. The service manager said they all do that. Anyone else noticed this ?
  • ruskiruski Member Posts: 1,566
    why do you insist on shifting into Drive while rolling backward? All automatic transmissions hate that.
  • maximamaxima Member Posts: 19
    how hard is it just slam on the brakes for 1 sec and shift it into D?
  • speedshiftspeedshift Member Posts: 1,598
    Yeah, not a good thing to shift into Drive while rolling backwards. 100 out of 100 transmissions will protest that kind of treatment.

    Speaking of trannys, mine went out at 26k--twice. Yes, I now have a new tranny, but it makes you wonder a) when it'll go out again and, b) what's next?
  • tdheimtdheim Member Posts: 3
    I believe the car actually had come to a stop when this occurred. I had a service tech drive the car to check out the front end noise and when backing out of the dealership he noticed the same skip when transitioning to a foward motion He made a comment that it did not seem normal to him, but the service manager held that it was normal. It's possible the car is still rolling(SLIGHTLY) when shifting into drive, but only slightly.
  • ms13ms13 Member Posts: 4
    I am new to this web site. I wish I would have checked it out before we bought our 1998 grand prix se. we bought is used with 21,000 miles on it. Nice shape, no accidents and even smells new. Now it has 29,500 miles on it and we have had it in the shop too many times to count. Every thing from a blown speaker to a tork converter problem. So far it has all been covered under warranty. A big reliability issue. However, when it is not in the shop, I love to drive it.

    There is still one thing the dealer(s) have not been able to correct. When driving and slowing down to turn or stop, at about 17mph we hear a sucking/winning noise. It is very annoying.

    We have even contacted Pontiac direct about all the problems we have had. They have blown us off since day one. And even suggested we contact the attorney generals office.

    Any one have/had a similar problem? Suggestions? How do we get them to buy the car back?

    sps
  • carrjarcarrjar Member Posts: 6
    Where did you buy the car? How do you know the previous owner did not abuse the car, or kept the damage hidden from you. I am thinking specifically of water damage.
  • arun3arun3 Member Posts: 1
    Hi, Just got my windows tinted (finally) on my 2000 GP. Good job overall, but...If the sun is out you can see a couple vertical streaks on the rear windshield, behind the 3rd taillamp. (I did not ask them to remove the assembly because I presumed on this car it would be fairly complicated). Now I kinda wish I had. Anyway the streaks look like the result of water dripping and drying on the glass.

    What's the best way to clean this? Any "non-invasive" ideas to clean that area without removing the taillight assembly? If not, can I as a non-mechanic remove the assembly myself? How? I could not find anything about this in the manual except for changing the bulb.

    Thanks.
  • ms13ms13 Member Posts: 4
    Did we know the previous owner? no. How do we know the previous owner did not abuse it? We Don't. The previous owner was a lady going through a divorce. We did see the records from the dealership because it is the same dealership we take it to. The day we purchase the car she went out and leased a Grand Am, if that means anything.

    What do you mean by water damage? Here is a list of the items we have had fixed:

    Oil leak twice
    rear shock
    radio speaker
    transmission leak from the tork converter
    fan replaced
    transmission oil leak from line
    front end alignment
    front end cluck (different from alignment)
    Winning noise at 17mph decel
    Battery replace

    This list may not seem very long, but we have had it in many times for the same things. We have had it in five times for the winning noise and the last time they said it was gear noise. I don't believe it. One person who knows car pretty well thought it might be the tork converter. Since the noise only comes after it is warm. My concern is that every time we take it in that they may have cause other problems with it. Some dealerships are hard to trust. If we can fix this last winning/sucking noise we might keep the car since everything is fixed, now.

    sps (new to this web site)
  • carrjarcarrjar Member Posts: 6
    From the Sound of things, I though it may have been in a flood, random electrical problems, and leaks from items "low" on the car are often the result of water.

    Have they changed the trans fluid. Maybe dirt or water got into the transmission and might be causing the odd noises.
  • ms13ms13 Member Posts: 4
    Yes they did. Because there was a transmission leak they could not find until the car would only shift from 3rd gear. They told us the tork converter had a leak with the seal and lost fluid. However, the noise was there just before this happened - then went away after they replaced the seal - then came back.

    One person, who is familiar with cars because he works for GM, thought the noise was coming from the tork converter. He suggested this even before I told him about have the seal replaced.

    Somehow I am convinced the dealership does know what the problem is and they do not want to put the man hours in. Then again, it is still under warranty and they would get paid.

    The noise only happens when the car is warm - for example when we get off the highway.

    sps
  • ms13ms13 Member Posts: 4
    I just realized I spelled torque - tork. Yes, I am an educated idiot.
  • electricblueelectricblue Member Posts: 21
    Hi everyone!! I'm new here. I currently own a '98 Dodge Avenger. I bought it new - at 21K miles, my trans went. Now, I am an unhappy Avenger owner with an under-powered car waiting for the other shoe to drop. I am weighing 2 cars. Next Feb-March, I'm either going to buy a GP GTP or Bonneville SSEi. I can't decide. I'm 31, I don't want an old persons car just yet, (lol) but, I have to say the Bonneville sure is looking sporty these days. I like a stiff riding car, so possibly the Bonneville is out, but I do want a reliable car if I'm going to pay 30K for it. I've also THOUGHT about the Indy 500 replica, but, the decals seem so "cheesy". I just like the ram-air scoops on the front and the rear spoiler is different than that of the regular GTP. So, I'm just checking with everyone as to reliablity issues, handling, etc. I'd appreciate any input. I will be buying a 2001, so I'm anxious to see what info comes out on those when available. Thank you! Any input will be of great help. (I've also been considering a Trans-Am.....don't bother?)
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    Electricblue:

    Brother, if you have the bucks, go with the T/A. Those things are awesome!!!!!

    I love my 2000 Grand Prix GT, but it's not in the same league with the T/A. If you can afford the initial investment, don't mind buying premium gas (would also be true for the other cars you mentioned, though, come to think of it), and don't mind spending about $300.00 a piece on tires that only last 25-30K miles, then definitely go with the T/A.

    And, be sure to get the 6-speed manual, of course.

    Black would be totally awesome, like the one in the comercial that eats the car in front of it at the stoplight.

    Oh well, let us know what you end up with.

    Like I said, I love my GP GT, but I didn't get the GTP because of its requirement for premium gas. I sort of wish I had, though. Premium is usually only 20 cents per gallon higher than regular, and as high as the gas prices are now, what's another 20 cents per gallon gonna matter?

    tsjay
  • electricblueelectricblue Member Posts: 21
    tsjay, thank you for the input!! (by the way, I'm a female...lol, but that's ok!!) I've really been struggling with this T/A issue, because they are so nice looking and sound fantastic. I don't really mind the gas issue, so, I just may end up going with that. Thanks again for your input!! Oh and by the way, how do the GTP's sound? I haven't test drove one yet. Call me crazy, but, I have a "thing" for the deep rumble of a powerful car!! ;)
  • ruskiruski Member Posts: 1,566
    Grand Prix GTP is fast, good looking, and practical. I have one and love it. It sure won't beat a Trans Am but it will beat most other cars on the road. It has a bunch of luxurious features as well. The ride is tight but not harsh. The Goodyear RS-A tires are good all-weather tires but many people find them not good enough (I guess they don't drive much in the snow).

    Bonneville SSEi's styling is not as clean as that of the Grand Prix GTP. And it is not as quick. However the Bonneville might be more solid.
    I test drove the Bonneville SLE and was not crazy about some of its interior components.

    It sure would be nice if they put 12-way power seats from the SSEi into the GTP.
  • ruskiruski Member Posts: 1,566
    the minute I saw your nickname I thought you were a girl. I think I watch Blue's Clues too much with my kids.
  • electricblueelectricblue Member Posts: 21
    lol @ blues clues...it's funny...I don't even have kids and have never seen the show!! My usual nickname online is GOLDSPARK, and it was very late when I joined, so, there it was!! (I couldn't come up with anything ;) ) Anyway, thank you so much for your input, I really appreciate it. I wish I would have had been online when I bought my Avenger back in '98...I never would have bought it had I known all the problems!! (Not to mention it's poorly underpowered) I definately like the T/A's power, and looks but, I think when all is said and done I will end up with the GP GTP. I know a few people who have GP's, all years and from what I've heard on here also everyone seems to just love them. Thank you again for all of your input! It's greatly appreciated!!
  • electricblueelectricblue Member Posts: 21
    Oh, and by the way, thank you for the comparison against the GP and the Bonneville...that will help me a lot..like I said initially, I'm 31, but I'm not sure I'm ready for a 4 door car yet..lol
    I've always been a coupe person, (being no kids and all) and I don't think I'd like the ride it gives (maybe in another 20 years). I do have to agree though, it would be nice if they put the 12 way adjustment in the GP - we'll see what they come up with for 2001...I'm planning on putting about 15k down, so, I should be able to get every goody they have to offer and still only finance about 15k or so. Thank you again!
  • yurakmyurakm Member Posts: 1,345
    we'll see what they come up with for 2001...

    You can see this now. And this is official. GM provides the preview info for fleet buyers on the following site:

    http://www.gmfleet.com/na/us/productpreview/car/index.htm
  • kazzkazz Member Posts: 23
    When i saw your name I thought of the old Ice House song.

    One other thing to consider is that the GPis front wheel drive, as is the Bonnie. The Trans Am isa rear wheel drive. Not an issue in a sunny place like Vegas or LA, but if you live someplace with weather, it might be a consideration.

    Good luck!
  • electricblueelectricblue Member Posts: 21
    LOL!! That's what made me think of the name...I used to love that song...and your right, one of the things that makes me want to stay away from the T/A is the rear wheel drive. I live in Michigan. I'm in SE lower, so, we don't get THAT much, but, when we do it can be pretty rough with a car like that. Back in 1989 I had bought a Firebird, new, and we had a snow storm and I did a 360 in the middle of the express-way. Not fun! Luckily, there was nobody around me and I came out of it safely. Thanks for the advice!
  • electricblueelectricblue Member Posts: 21
    Thank you very much for the address. I wasn't aware any info was out yet. (Shows you how up on things I am ;) ) I'll check it out!
  • electricblueelectricblue Member Posts: 21
    This has nothing to do with a particular car, but I just saw something on a news program that just urked me. There is a city around where I live that I heard that the police can pull you over for smoking in your car (if it's true, I don't know) - I suppose for safety purposes? But yet, you have all of these yahoos gabbing away on cell phones everywhere, now I've just heard that car companys are now installing palm pilots, internet access etc. in some new vehicles (I already knew about it, but didn't know it was happening already). Come on!! I have a cell phone as half the world does already, but I will not drive and talk at the same time. Does anyone really need to access the internet while driving or in their car? Are they that important? I think not. So, you can go online, watch TV, play with your palm pilot, talk on the phone, but dammit, don't smoke while driving!! UGH!
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    Electricblue:

    SISTER (sorry 'bout the "Brother" in my first post, don't let the rear wheel drive stop you on the T/A. Come on now, how many days are the roads really that slick? Don't they get right on them with snowplows and salt trucks? On those worst days, can't you stay home or take public transportation, or ride with someone else?

    If you have the bucks. and it sounds like with your down payment you do, the go for the gusto, and get the T/A!!!!!

    A REAL sports car has rear wheel drive and a manual transmission.

    The GTP's sound pretty good for six cylinder engines, but there's no comparison with the deep, throaty rumble of the T/A's LS-1 V8.

    Live it up, woman, and go with the T/A! (and get the 6-speed tranny).

    Ok, I get carried away. It's your money, and you ought to get what YOU want. Test drive all the models that you think you would like and then when you think you know what you want, find some people that own them and ask their opinions. You can check the newsgroups here in Town Hall, but remember, the articles are skewed to the negative side, because people that are unhappy are many times more likely to post articles than those who are happy.

    Be sure and let us know what you end up with.

    Good luck, and I hope you are thrilled to death with whatever you buy and that it turns out to be a great vehicle over the long run.

    tsjay
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    Electricblue:

    SISTER (sorry 'bout the "Brother" in my first post, don't let the rear wheel drive stop you on the T/A. Come on now, how many days are the roads really that slick? Don't they get right on them with snowplows and salt trucks? On those worst days, can't you stay home or take public transportation, or ride with someone else?

    If you have the bucks. and it sounds like with your down payment you do, the go for the gusto, and get the T/A!!!!!

    A REAL sports car has rear wheel drive and a manual transmission.

    The GTP's sound pretty good for six cylinder engines, but there's no comparison with the deep, throaty rumble of the T/A's LS-1 V8.

    Live it up, woman, and go with the T/A! (and get the 6-speed tranny).

    Ok, I get carried away. It's your money, and you ought to get what YOU want. Test drive all the models that you think you would like and then when you think you know what you want, find some people that own them and ask their opinions. You can check the newsgroups here in Town Hall, but remember, the articles are skewed to the negative side, because people that are unhappy are many times more likely to post articles than those who are happy.

    Be sure and let us know what you end up with.

    Good luck, and I hope you are thrilled to death with whatever you buy and that it turns out to be a great vehicle over the long run.

    tsjay
  • kazzkazz Member Posts: 23
    I think if you were thinking of a Trans Am, you should hold off until the final year, in a year or two. Word is they are planning to send the model out with a bang and include a variety of upgrades for the last year.

    Currently, due to some mechanical design differences, the Camaro is supposed to be the faster car, so iftis is your thing, get the Camaro.

    I found, after buying a GTP, that I didn't need any more power. But you know what? I still WANT more power. If you don't need a FWD r carrying room, a hotrod would be pretty cool...
  • electricblueelectricblue Member Posts: 21
    Thanks guys for the input!! I really do like the T/A, and do have the bucks....I also heard myself that they are "planning" to discontinue them in 2002 - so, that just may be the way to go..(if I can wait that long! lol) But, I do agree with tsjay...I should test drive the 2 and decide from there. Thanks again, and I'll keep you posted! (Gee, how exciting for you!! hehe) ;)Oh, and by the way, I think I've ruled out the Bonneville..I'm just not a sedan person
This discussion has been closed.