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Pontiac Grand Prix - 2000-2005

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Comments

  • ruskiruski Posts: 1,566
    on the MotorWeek TV they said that the GTP Comp Edition would be under $30K.
  • orwoodyorwoody Posts: 269
    Thanks montanafan, I traded the GTP but went through my owners manual several times page by page(yeah I'm a owners manual geek when I get a new rig.) and never found anywhere that it specified an octane. It did refer me to check with my dealer for appropriate fuel for my location. The car ran great and apparently was not compromised.(no problems in well over 20k miles, dealer did all service and gave me much better than trade value even though I was getting my new rig about $250 over invoice.)

    ruski - I saw the Motorweek episode and remember they mentioned their impression for pricing. However when I look at what a loaded 2003 GTP is and what is added in the Comp G package.... I'm skeptical it'll stay under $30k. We should know in a few weeks. If a loaded 2004 GTP w/Comp G package can be had for under $30k I think Pontiac will really be onto something.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    The 2003 Pontiac GTP recently tested by The Cincinnati Enquirer listed at $30,300, and it did NOT have all available options...

    Just a thought.
  • evandroevandro Posts: 1,108
    FWIW, just to be in the safe side, I'd go for premium fuel. It's about $0.20 more, or roughly $150 more a year. Over 7 years, that's $1000, still below what a new engine would cost...
  • evandroevandro Posts: 1,108
    My brother was at the Detroit auto show and told me that he was disappointed with the interior. It was an improvement over the previous one, but the competition has raised the bar.

    He said that most new mid-size cars out there make use of soft plastic everywhere, not selectively anymore. This selectivity is what turned me off about the Altima, among other things.

    I skipped the GP once for the interior materials once, although I've always liked its styling, handling and performance. The new one is even nicer inside and out and I was envisioning it as my future ride...

    I'll hold final judgment until I do a test drive myself though.
  • ruskiruski Posts: 1,566
    They probably tested some special edition (for example Daytona series have always been considerably more expensive because of the Daytona decals)

    At $30K one could easily go for something more luxurious - Acura TL(-S), Infiniti G35...

    Is Pontiac getting the same disease that struck Volkswagen? (let's just make them more expensive and people will think that they are as good as Benzes)
  • evandroevandro Posts: 1,108
    Couldn't agree more with you.

    I am very fond of cars, but I can't convince myself to pay more than $30000 on a car out of the door.

    I want to buy more and more of a car for less and less, not the other way around. The last two cars I've bought were from GM, mostly because of the value I perceived in them, meeting my needs of performance for the cost I was willing to pay.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,257
    I read the Cincinnati article, too. It said that it was a "special edition". So it was listed as over $30K for the decals.

    I can only go by what the GM representatives told me at the auto show....that is a loaded GTP would come in well under $30K. Don't know if that includes the "comp package" or not, though.

    Looking at what GM has been doing the past 18 months or so, the "discounted purchase price" would probably be somewhere around $27K.

    Considering that they are still holding to "sticker" for an Accord around here and Camrys selling for over $30K for a V6 XLE, the GP GTP looks like a bargain.
  • orwoodyorwoody Posts: 269
    I think part of the problem is that GM(and others) have been offering rebates and discounts for so long, we've gotten used to the selling prices being considerably lower($3k-$7k) than the MSRP. The biggest question mark is if GM will/when offer any discounts/rebates on the new 2004 GP? A loaded(sunroof, leather, HUD..) 2003 GTP MSRP will be over $29k. Add the Limited Edition pkg and wheels and you are about $31k. However GM is giving a $3k rebate and most of our local dealers are also knocking off another $1k-$2k to get buyers in. Adding in any rebates form a GM credit card - one can swing a sweet deal.
    I'm guessing that GM won't offer any rebates on the new GP for the first 6 months.
  • evandroevandro Posts: 1,108
    I guess you're right. Factoring in the rebates, discounts and haggling the GP should remain a good bang for our bucks, at least by year's end.
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    The new 2004 Pontiac Grand Prix sedan will begin at $21,760 MSRP for the GT. The higher-powered Grand Prix GTP starts at $25,860 MSRP and the GTP equipped with the Competition Group suspension package will cost an additional $1395.

    Decent I think.
  • orwoodyorwoody Posts: 269
    I added some info on the Pontiac Grand Prix 2004 Redesign Questions & Comments forum.
  • regfootballregfootball Posts: 2,166
    "Now, I've been one of the strongest supporters of the 3800 engine, but even I may have to admit it may be nearing the end of its remarkable 40-year lifespan.

    It has never been an aurally-pleasing engine. Given that this is a Pontiac, some exhaust note is part of the deal, and it's rough, raucous.

    Even the torque, usually this engine's strong point, seemed a bit overwhelmed by the Grand Prix's weight.

    The supercharged version is predictably stronger and shouldn't be affected by the thinner atmosphere, but even it runs out of puff at much over 4500 rpm."
  • vcjumpervcjumper Posts: 1,110
    To me the most disappointing thing I read was the accomodations for rear passengers.. How do you engineer a fairly large 3500lb 4 door sedan with cramped rear quarters?
  • orwoodyorwoody Posts: 269
    The article was interesting, however sitting in the back seat on the 2004 at the auto show, I thought it was better than the current GP. So "cramped" is sort of relative. I for one don't plan on spending much time in the back seat.
  • regfootballregfootball Posts: 2,166
    Wonder if the epsilon based Grand Am won't end up having more space in the back.....

    Maybe Lutz approved the 2004 Grand Prix and is giving it a 3 year cycle. Maybe they will have an all new one by 2007.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    My question is this. I was also looking at a Mazda6. Does anyone here think that Toronto review was inaccurate, and if so why. Right now it looks as though I will test drive a GTP when they come out and keep waiting on the 6 Hatch!
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    I read that review yesterday in the paper. I was surprised how negative it was.

    I think Pontiac should have made the 3800 an SE and the supercharged version a GT or GTP. Given the horsepower today's V6 sedans have, there is nothing GT about a 200 hp 3800 powered GP. I think GM needs to get a new 240hp+ ohc engine in that car pronto. That said, I still like the looks of the car and the interior is fine. Don't care about back seats as I don't sit in them. If they sell (as i suspect they will) the GT for the price of a 4 cyl Accord, it will sell fine.

    I will be taking a very close look next Monday at the Toronto Auto Show. Are you planning on going?
  • vcjumpervcjumper Posts: 1,110
    I will head there, not sure when yet..
    Back seat is a concern for me because I end up with adult clients/customers in there pretty frequently.
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    I'm taking Monday off. I have 1 vacation day left from last year that I have to take or loose.
  • orwoodyorwoody Posts: 269
    The review is rather negative and has a few disagreements with the Motorweek review in january. I think it shows that opinions vary greatly and what you are used to driving can influence. I didn't think my 2000 GTP ride was nearly as jolting as several "performance oriented" competive autos I've been in. Some folks I know think a harsher ride is better. I was a bit smitten with the Mazda6 (like johnclineii) and plan to test drive the Mazda6, 2004 GTP(w and w/o Comp G), and maybe one or two others back to back so I can judge for myself which one works the best for me.
  • wpbharrywpbharry Posts: 399
    Hi all. I'm really just "looking" at these postings, since I'm really interested in the upcoming Mailbu and am a regular in those forums. But since you guys are up first (this week, no less, it begins production), I'm curious to see how Lutz's first new baby fares. Also, the new GP is produced in Oshawa and we get good old Kansas City, as you know, the site of the last GP production, which was mediocre. As far as prices, remember to factor in resale value. I too have a GM card (with $2500 + on it in waiting), but when I see what my old '98 Malibu is now worth (with low miles), I have to wonder. Will compare the new Malibu with the Accord V-6 a year or so from now and the math could get tricky. Good luck with the new GP. Hope it's at the Ft. Lauderdale Auto Show in mid-March. Bet it'll be there. We shall see...
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    We have an Intrigue built in Kansas and it's been very good over the almost 3 years we have owned it. My brother in law has a GP GTP he bought last year and it's been just fine also. Keep in mind, GM has improved all around and with this new Malibu design that has many fewer parts, you should see some decent quality.
  • ruskiruski Posts: 1,566
    that dude is complaining about the tranny too saying how much better the tranny is in some Acura that he drove the following day.

    I remember how smooth and smart my '98 GTP's tranny was.

    I also remember how my Acura TL-S' tranny broke at 6,100 miles and had to be replaced.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    Can't be.

    Why, as I learned here earlier today, every Honda ever made or to be made is superior to every GM product that could EVER be built.

    Must be true.

    I read it here.

    (And the above was bitter sarcasm, in case you didn't notice!)
  • wpbharrywpbharry Posts: 399
    John, no comment on the maturity level, but I do have some helpful suggestions: 1) cross-check my more recent postings from yesterday in the '04 Malibu forum, and 2) buy yourself (if you don't subscribe) a copy of the 50th Anniversary issue of the annual Consumer Reports auto guide, which should be on the stands mid-March, and check all those "red dots" for Honda/Acura vs. ANY GM product. Obviously, none of us can own all products from any mfr. and they survey THOUSANDS of folks on vehicle experiences.

    Yes, I agree, any mfr. can produce a few lemons (ask me about the Oshawa-produced '96 Monte Carlo Z34 that I bought after the '92 Accord EX; was nearly killed in it the 4th time it died at speed, and only Chevy would give me more than 10 cents on the dollar for it; hence the '98 Malibu). Also, every mfr. can slip-up with a particular model. The current Civic Si is produced in Britain and is a disaster (bad choice on Honda's part, but they did it to appease the "teenage" (in body or mind) [non-permissible content removed] hot-rodders). I'm talking about AVERAGES, not a one-by-one case. As far as the Intrigue, I recall that a few years ago either MT or C&D did a long-term test on one and that too was mediocre. And I have one friend and one close relative with GPs (one '98, one '00) that are in the shop nearly as much as I am. Personally, I don't know of anyone with a Honda or Toyota with much of any problems, but there is always an exception or 2....

    The last ('03 and prior) GP and Intrigue had no fewer parts than my Mailbu. They were all conceived about the same time, i.e. mid -90's.

    So that you all are clear: I'M NOT TRYING TO KNOCK GM! I'm simply trying to get a feel for more recent GM experiences and wait with great anticipation your comments on the new GP, especially from those of you that buy one. Thanks, Harry
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    I think he was referring to the new optional tap shift, not the regular 4 speed auto.
  • evandroevandro Posts: 1,108
    I'd keep a salt shaker nearby when reading CR. Last year there were no statistics for a new Mustang because of lack of respondents, yet there were so for the Audi A6 2.7T. How many Mustangs to you see every day and how many A6s?

    My neighbor bought a Ford Windstar because it was highly rated by CR, only to see it stall in the highway and have the tranny replaced. Interestingly, the Windstar showed up as a car to avoid a year later...

    Then, when I considered an Accord, checking out the discussion in Edmunds, I was baffled to see owners argue that an optimistic fuel gauge is not an issue. I started wondering what such owners would put into CR survey card...
  • orwoodyorwoody Posts: 269
    I used to look at the Consumer Reports for years and even subscribed until they became too extreme in some of their viewpoints. They also hit a low point when they began soliciting raffles on their subscribers. I noticed that their reliability reports were only based on inputs from their readers, not an independent third party survey or real data collected from unbiased(meaning non-auto mfrs). I also noticed very few of my auto ownership experiences matched their charts... Here is an interesting article on one writer's thoughts on Consuumer Reports.

    http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=4733&sid=19- - 2&n=156
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