Pontiac Grand Prix - 2000-2005

racer17v

I have the premium sound system with the Monsoon amp and extra speakers- never heard a crack or rattle and I usually have it set loud (rock). Not sure what to tell you, sounds like a bad ground on one of the speakers, if you can locate the source I'd check that.
PS- get the GTP back from the shop tomorrow, excited to get it back yet worried to see how it came out, the garage is reputable so we shall see.

ab348

In their retrospective on the cars they have driven this year, the NY Times offers this unflattering assessment:

"Despite a mild redesign, this unrefined old-tech car feels two decades behind the times, with one of the poorest interiors I've seen in years."

vcjumper

Doesn't Edmunds do their car articles now?

johnclineii

Some of them, yes.

Some of them, no.

The New York Times and Edmunds are business partners, and share some, but not all, resources.

spartanmann

This might be the only time in my life I agree with something printed in the NY Times. I had the misfortune of riding in my friend's new Grand Prix for 3 hours last week. He has the mid level sedan without the leather. Can anyone explain to me why GM takes a $25,000 car and puts in thin, cheap, cloth upholstery and hard plastic trim that makes it seem like you are riding in a $15,000 econonmy car? Actually that is kind of insulting to economy cars, many of which have much nicer interiors. Add to that a very uncomfortable back seat, rough ride and constant engine noise and it's pretty miserable for any passenger. I understand the car handles and accelerates great and maybe GM assumes only the driver makes the buying decision. They better hope so, otherwise these things will be heading straight to the rental car fleets within a year.

carguy58

I don't think so the Grand Prix has always been a good seller for GM. The last generation Grand Prix sold well even if the interior was inferior to the imports. Where I live I see Grand Prix's. Its not like the car is on its deathbed. Besides, I don't think the Grand Prix is going after the Accord/Camry crowd. Its going after the Mazda 6/Nissan Altima crowd. This car is made to sell 100,000 units not 400,000 units. My family has had 3 GP's and there is no noisy engine. I understand about the backseat. I haven't sat in the 04 GP. I think Gm must have narrowed the backseat room and made the car more coupe-like in the exterior styling. The interior from what I have in the commercials on TV looks better than better than the previous generation GP's interior.

tjackson2

Just got my 04 GTP, Green and the only option is the moon roof. question, what is the difference in the 0-60 time between the comp g package and the regular auto tranny? Although it has plenty of balls, are there any cheap mods to give it alitttle better 0-60 time? I enjoy every second I'm behind the wheel. Back seat sucks as you already know, but the smell of burning rubber when you take off makes up for it!!

johnclineii

...Well, at least it does if you are in the front seat!

midlifecrisis

The first mod most GTP owners do is the pulley swap on the supercharger that adds 20 HP. I've heard it is very cheap to install.

johnclineii

Just be aware this mod DOES have warranty implications. You can't expect to change an engine then expect the manufacturer to be responsible for things the mod may have caused.

spartanmann

If you're right and GM is going after the Mazda 6 and Nissan Altima crowd, they're in trouble. They offer great performance with much better interiors, ride, quiet, etc... I think this car was designed to keep existing Pontiac buyers and not much else. It will certainly do that. But after the all the development cost and PR about the car, its disappointing that GM won't be doing much with it except to retain existing customers. I'm not a GM basher and am just basically a neutral observer as I drive a minivan and have no intention of purchasing any passenger car. It's just after the major improvements GM has made with Cadillac, their trucks and SUVs, I thought the same would apply to passenger cars. But the new Malibu and Grand Prix are good efforts at best, but nowhere near the class leaders. Maybe thats all GM can afford, or is willing to spend on the low profit passenger car side of the biz.

dindak

I think the new G6 is the car that GM plans to use to attract new Pontiac buyers with. The Vibe has already done that to some extent and the G6 will be a midsize offering for those that want a sedan.

carguy58

I think GM yeah kept their Pontiac audience which is a good thing to me. Got to keep the core buyer happy. I think what happened with the 04 GP was the product was nearly done when Bob Lutz first started working at GM so he didn't have much input. If you remember right a new GP was supposed to come out for the 03 model year. It got postponed by 1 year so maybe Lutz did all he could do with the product he had. I don't know.

I'm usually a Honda/Acura and a Mazda fan but I do see some improvements with GM.

ruski

Altima suffers from bad torque steer and the interior is kind of crappy.

evandro

The new Regal, LaCrosse, and the new Grand Am, G6, are going to be the 1st cars entirely done under Lutz. At 1st, he scrapped the Regal redesign and sent the engineers back to the drawing board (screen?). If they are nothing but revolutionary in GM's line up, then Lutz is nothing but hype. We'll see.

midlifecrisis

I saw a new Malibu at a local mall. Although it looks like a solid decent car, I'm glad I didn't wait a few months until it came out before buying my Grand Prix. The Malibu is not exactly exciting to look at.

midlifecrisis

....than a Altima. I'm not sure about the Mazda 6. A big issue I have with Mazdas is that there are so few dealers to get serviced or repaired. The nearest dealer to me is about a half hour drive and it is in a really congested area with bad traffic and poor roads. I have a Pontiac dealer right around the corner and another two dealers within 10 miles.

spartanmann

You drive your car every day. You go to the dealer maybe once or twice a year. An additional 20 to 40 minutes of driving per year is a small sacrifice to own a better vehicle. By the way, the 6 will be the basis of Ford's long long overdue Taurus replacement next year. So assuming there's a Ford dealer closer, you may be able to get the best of both worlds.

dindak

midlifecrisis : GP got the looks, Bu is a better car over all though. That said, if it was my choice I would get a GP as I don't care much about the back seat and I like the dash ok.

evandro : The new Cobalt looks like a home run so I think the Lutz influence is coming on full stream now. I think the G6 and LaCross will be awesome.

carguy : You are right, GP was pretty much done when Bob got there. It's a good car but it could be great with some work to the back seat and some other details. Hopefully it will get the new 3900 next year.

evandro

Except that the Altima is worse than the GP. If one doesn't like the materials in a GP, the materials in the Altima are much cheaper, looking at and touching. Not to mention that the fit and finish is worse than GM's and so is its reliability.

As for the Taurus replacement, the 500, it'll have its own platform, some speculate it's RWD. The Mazda 6 will provide the platform for the past due replacement of the Mondeo, the Futura.

carguy58

The reliability on the Altima is good(average to above average I would think.) I agree interior quality is not that good but the Altima is selling.

As far as Ford using the Mazda 6 platform I'll think the be more interior room in the Ford than in the Mazda 6 so the handling on the Ford won't be as good as the Mazda.

If it were my decesion I would buy a Mazda 6. The things got looks and interior quality is at least on par with the Camry. It should prove to be reliable.

spartanmann

The Edmunds test of 10 family cars rated the Mazda 6 second only to the Accord and above the Camry, Passat, Altima etc.. The Malibu was 7th out of 10. Had it been included in the test the GP would probably not have been rated higher than the Malibu. It has better performance, but that's about it. The 6 gives you the best of both worlds, the main concern would be reliability which is always a concern on a new product.

ab348

Switch the badges on the Malibu and the 6 and I bet Edmunds would still have come up with the same results. GM cars' biggest drawback seems to be their nameplate.

etcb

You want to experience a bad interior check out the Cadillac CTS. Talk about uncomfortable! I'd take a 04 GTP over a CTS anyday and pay thousands less to boot!

etcb

The only thing the NY Times is good for is to wrap fish!

etcb

Back seat sucks as you already know, but the smell of burning rubber when you take off makes up for it!!

You bet ya~~!!

johnclineii

I owned a 98 GTP. Would have bought an 04.

I, among many other former owners, NEED that back seat. The new one is NOT acceptable.

GM let me leave. And I WILL be leaving.

I am sure Subaru will appreciate the business.

And the smell of burning rubber does my pained passengers in the rear no good at all.

There WERE GP owners who needed and used the back seat for passengers. Imagine that.

Others bought the coupe. Both groups of us were abandoned.

etcb

Maybe thats all GM can afford, or is willing to spend on the low profit passenger car side of the biz

I don't think it's a matter of what GM can afford. Hell, they are a muti-billion dollar corp. I beleive GM is thinking more about what their customer can afford. Which is more than I can say for import car makers! If you know the value of a dollar, then you should appreciate the 04 GTP as a true value!!

CB

midlifecrisis

I'm more concerned about having a dealer around when and if I ever need emergency service and repairs, especially during warranty.

Driving a long distance to a dealer and then having to leave your vehicle there for usually two days (one to check out the car and order parts, one to install the parts when they come in) is a major inconvenience for me and my family. Especially since my wife has to drive one of my children to school and back each day.

When I go on long trips, it is a reassurance to me that there are GM dealerships in most towns. That can not be said for Mazda, and other manufacturers like Kia and Hyundai.

midlifecrisis

I also like to get my vehicles maintained (oil changes, etc) at the dealer during the warranty period. I believe I am more likely to get better service from the dealer by doing this.

After the warranty is up, I usually get my vehicles serviced at my local mechanic.

dindak

johnclineii : Check out the Malibu / Maxx, they have very good back seats. The sedan was surprisingly good.

etcb : While I think the GP dash is fine, I don't think it's better than the CTS. Not even close.

racer17v

Quit crying about the back seat. I have an '04 GTP and it is NOT that bad. Is it the size of a '79 Caprice Classic? No. Can you fit people back there in a reasonable manner? YES. I gladly will accept a smaller or less roomy back seat if it is due to the coupe type styling of a 4 door and the fold down back seats with the extra cargo room. If you want the space, get a minivan. If GM extended the back seats and had to change the rear quarter style, people would complain about that. If you are in a profession that deals with clients that get so easily offended by the size of a back seat in a 2004 vehicle, then you shouldn't be driving them around in a GTP anyways. Go buy something over $50K.

etcb

If you are in a profession that deals with clients that get so easily offended by the size of a back seat in a 2004 vehicle, then you shouldn't be driving them around in a GTP anyways.

Yea put'm in the back. They'll enjoy the stiff ride! Just like riding a Harley Hard Tail!

CB

etcb

etcb : While I think the GP dash is fine, I don't think it's better than the CTS. Not even close.

I didn't say anything about the CTS dash. I was refering to the overall comfort and ride. I find it ironic that the GTS is marketed as a luxury sports sedan. Bla.. Bla.. and the GTP is considered a mid-size sedan. Varooom!! CTS has stiff competition. To name one, I would have to say BMW.
CB

CB

johnclineii

Actually, I am also going to look at the G6. Interestingly enough, it has a HUGE wheelbase (120 inches) and a big backseat.

And it will cost a dang site less than the GTP I would have bought.

Methinks GM missed the boat with this new GP. Sales, or relative lack thereof, seem to agree.

dindak

etcb : Have not driven back to back, but I'd take a CTS anyday over a GP.

johnclineii : Have to admit, in many ways the G6 is a nicer car. That said, the GP is a bigger car over all and does have a coupe look to it that the G6 does not.

johnclineii

Well, over on the G6 thread, we've decided Motor Trend HAS to be wrong. There is NO way that thing has a TEN FOOT wheelbase. Bet it is supposed to be 112, like the Maxx.

I may well wait to see if I like the G6. If the 04 GP had been as revolutionary as was the 97/98 generation, GM could have sold me another GTP, but such was not to be.

Happy New Year all!

spartanmann

Claims of bias against American cars in reviews are a lame excuse. A few publications like Consumers Reports obviously don't give a straight scoop. Edmunds is very objective and if you read all of their reviews you will notice that they often rate American and GM cars ahead of the competition. They also don't hesitate to rate Japanese and foreign makes lower when they deserve it. In the same review the Passat was 5th, previously Edmunds had it first. The Accord was rated first, the same as virtually everyone else who has tested these cars. The Malibu was a good effort. However, against cars this good, you need to make a great effort. Otherwise you get rated 7th. Nothing wrong with that, its still a good car.

spartanmann

True Value? The Grand Prix and other GM cars are priced the same as their competition. They deal more off the sticker and offer rebates and low interest financing to move them while most foreign makes don't have to. This does make them a few thousand cheaper. However when you look at resale value you'll find they are much more expensive to buy. Check the blue book on 2003 GM midsize sedans. If you plan to keep the car a long time, then it may be a better value assuming it has the same or better reliability, but if you plan to buy another in 3 or 4 years, then they are no value at all.

ab348

There definitely is a perception bias that seems quite widespread these days. An entire generation has grown up believing that any car made in the USA is garbage. Don't believe me? Look at places like the Accord forum where you have people insisting, depsite all evidence, that Japanese-built Accords are superior to ones built here. Granted, many of the folks there seem to be smoking some powerful stuff since some of the statements about Accords, etc., are absurd beyond belief - i.e the old "it's not a bug, it's a feature" sort of thing.

When a car like the Altima, with an incredibly cheesy interior, a 4-cyl shaker engine, and questionable styling features, gets a high rating; when a car like a Mitsu, who have never built a car in recent history that has been a sales or engineering success gets a superior ranking; well, you really have to wonder. I still maintain that if you put a Malibu badge on a Mazda 6 they would dump all over it for a cheap-looking interior, while if you put the Mazda badge on the Malibu thay would be congratulating it on its bold styling and solid structure. For me Edmunds lost all credibility in 2000 when they ranked the Intrigue 8th behind such exemplars as the Mitsu Galant and the Saturn L-series, criticizing it for "wallowy" handling and creaks and rattles. As an Intrigue owner I can assure you that none of those criticisms is accurate.

johnclineii

So GM has to discount its cars as they are not as good as the competition and you shouldn't buy one if you are trading in three or four years? Not necessarily. I will soon be disposing of my 2000 Impala LS. It has 145,000 miles on it. By the time I get rid of it, it will probably have over 160,000. It has had TWO, count them, TWO major unscheduled repairs: an ignition switch and a headlight switch. Maintenance and repair costs are far more important to me than depreciation, as I use a car up, and I do it in three or four years.

A Pontiac GTP might well have been its replacement, but for the fact that I can't stand the back seat and MUST carry passengers. The new GP has abandoned that market. That's fine. But I sure ain't dissing GM. I may well buy another.

bigdaddycoats

Maybe it is just me, but I do not consider those major repairs. When you put on that kind of mileage I would think with almost any car some problems will arise.

johnclineii

I don't either. You miss my point. My point is the car still has its original battery, waterpump, alternator, etc. My 98 GTP had virtually no repairs while I owned it as well.

I believe the GP is a finely built automobile. It's the DESIGN, particularly inside and the rear seat, that I find fault with.

dindak

You also have to keep these repair issues in perspective. The difference between the best cars and the middle cars is 20-30 issues per 1000. It's not like the old days where your car wouldn't start the next day either, pretty much all cars are pretty reliable in that respect now. It's more the rattles smaller issues these days.

etcb

If Toyota makes such quality cars, how come all the complaining from new owners.Huh? Take a look at the recent www.msn.com ratings. I can bash Toyota with a clear conscious. My wife owns a 2002 LE V6. The ride is great if you stand annoying rotten egg smell. Must be a Toyota thing. My 1999 Camry was the same. The dealer say's Toyota knows about the problem but apparently isn't concerned about customers after the sale. It's pretty obvious to us that the Toyota elite don't buy their own product for themselves! Of course my GTP has it's issues, but there minor in comparison to the Camry stink bomb.

PS. There are many more issue with the CAMRY. Just look'm up at http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/NHSTB

etcb

spartanmann says: However when you look at resale value you'll find they are much more expensive to buy.

Anyone other than a collector that purchases a base vehicle resell should lease! I consider a vehicle as strictly a liability no matter what I paid for it. Cars are meant for transportation not as appreciating property.

CB

johnclineii

PONTIAC GRAND PRIX.

Let's talk about it.

I know we can...

ruski

you obviously need a Buick LeSabre or a Buick Park Avenue.

johnclineii

Had an Olds LSS, which was a LeSabre clone, sorta.

Want a NEW 98GTP! Ha Ha Ha!

Perhaps the G6 will have the goodness of the GP in a more workable package.

ruski

actually, I can fully recommend a Chrysler 300M. There are a few of them left out there and since Chrysler totally screwed up marketing of this great car, you can get a really good deal on it.

In some ways the new Grand Prix comes close to the 300M feature-wise, but 300M is a lot more luxurious. And the interior is really spacious. When I had my 300M, rear passengers always commented how it was limo-like.

Plus it has very good power (geared for high speeds, not for drag racing) and very sharp handling.

And it has a very good track record with few problems.