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Pontiac Grand Prix - 2000-2005

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Comments

  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    The 1998-2002 Intrigue used the SAME W body platform of the 1997-2003 GP so I wouldn't expect any less front end rattles. You must have gotten a good one, where as I must have gotten a bad one in 1997. with GM it's like rolling the dice. I'm hoping that my 2002 was a good one... knock on wood, perfect so far after 9 months of driving..

    The early Intrigues and W bodies are notorious for front end rattles and 174,000 of the 1999-2001 were recalled for dim or flickering headlights, always a comforting thought. I know the GP of 1997-2003 has weak hi-beams/headlights... Many of the W bodies I have driven, the headlights aren't that powerfull, esp. the hi beams... one complaint of mine. I will be shortly upgrading my 2002 GTP to HID aftermarket lighting, but it won't be cheap. My safety is worth it.

    Why doesn't the new GTP offer HID lighting? yet the maxima has been for years now....??

    Check out W body rack and pinion lockup problems of 1997 and newer...http://www.yfiles.com/GM-Steering-Problem-part2.htm I have never experience this... just happened to see it.

    After extensive driving, the GTP is a competent handler but not as good as the commercial sugges... "Wider is Better" the Intrigue has a wider track. The GTP track is only 1/2 an inch wider then the accord.

    Good car otherwise
  • 04gtpws604gtpws6 Posts: 12
    <<<<<<<<<<<#2255 of 2278 by gunit Jun 15, 2003 (12:04 pm)
    04GTPWS6, what kind of drag racing? A pulley will add 30-40 horse alone on the '97-03 geneartion GTP. Not sure on the mods for the Series 3 3800 yet, though probably similar. My 2002 is tuned to around 300 horse and the 1/4 in the low 14's. Yeah, my modded 2002 GTP has LESS Torque steer then the STOCK Maxima/I35/V6 Altima, which if you ever drove them, have HORRENDOUS torque steer almost to the point of being dangerous in certain driving situations... IE wet pavement. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>&- gt;>>>>>>

    I may not be doing any drag racing because of the crowds at Fontana. Because of the summer heat they race out there at night. Only problem is that you need to be in line at about 11 am or so you can get a run card. Kinda defeats the purpose of the night racing.

    And yes I drove both a Max and Altima immediately after driving the Grand Prix and also couldn't believe the torque steer. If it was just at full throttle that would be one thing, but the car pulled the other direction when you lifted. Way too much work. I don't remember the old Max (with 255 hp) behaving this badly. What happened?
  • 04gtpws604gtpws6 Posts: 12
    <<<<<<<<<Don't confuse the GM that built cars like the '63 GP with today's GM. They share only one thing - the name. GM no longer cares about making cars, just about making money. The soul and passion for style and performance is long dead. Instead we have atrocities like the Aztek and interiors like the '04 GP with uglycloth (TM Regd.). GM used to know how to build great cars, but no one there now remembers that>>>>>>>>>>

    Funny, I seem to recall my 04 GTP having leather not cloth.

    True, GM went to sleep for about 25 years or so, but I think they've got some of the passion back again. I was trying to drive all the cars over the weekend and still couldn't wait until I got home to get the 63 out of the garage. I don't know what there is about it but I sure like driving that one the most
  • 04gtpws604gtpws6 Posts: 12
    <<<<<<<<The 97 had very few issues and that was 5-6 years ago. The new GP is built in the best plant in NA so I personally would have no problem buying one out of the gate.>>>>>>>>>

    I may disagree with some aspects of the design (hard low back seat and difficulty with rearward vision), but I have no issues at with the car. I remember the day not too long ago when you'd return to the dealer, after having your new GM car for a couple of months, with a list two pages long with issues. With the last 8 that I've had in the last ten years the list has been getting real short and now down to nothing.
  • 04gtpws604gtpws6 Posts: 12
    <<<<<<<<<<<#2264 of 2281 04gtpws6 by oldsman01 Jun 16, 2003 (1:20 am)
    That's a pretty neat sampling of cars you have(or have had). Must be interesting going from a DTS to a GTP, but if I guess that also says something about the new GP. I'm still leaning toward an 04 CTS with the 3.6 liter engine, but haven't ruled the GP out completely. Did you lease your GP? If so, when your lease is up in a few years and if your ready to move back up to a Cadillac, the next generation STS should be out. I'm looking forward to seeing what it will offer. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>&- gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    The 04 Grand Prix is my 50th car so I've been around the block a few time, literally and figuratively.

    It was easy to make the change from the DTS to the GP as I think the new grand prix is a better built car. Things are changing quickly at GM. I will probably do a STSv to replace this car a few years from now because I still much prefer to listen to a V8 versus a V6. I would have done a CTS if the new engine would have been out now. The current Opel V6 doesn't thrill me all that much
  • 04gtpws604gtpws6 Posts: 12
    <<<<<<<<<#2273 of 2282 by gunit Jun 16, 2003 (2:50 pm)
     The oil burning issue really burned me on that car. 2 quarts a month. someone has told me that the early Aurora and Caddy Northstar V8's burned oil at higher mileage? something to do with the limp home feature if you ran out of coolant? But supposedly the oil burnign was fixed by 1998? I wonder if any one can shed any light on that topic? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>&- gt;>>>>>

    All four of my Northstar Cadillacs used oil at the rate of 1500-1700 miles per quart. My 2000 DTS uses just as much as my 93 STS did. Never got any worse though, but it's been my only GM cars ever that used oil. Hell, my 63 Grand Prix doesn't use a drop
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    "you must have gotten a good one"

    Maybe. I just love the solid feel of the car and I'm always amazed how well it corners. Like you say, the Intrigue is just as wide as the GP. I really liked our old 98 SE though, it served us well and we planned on keeping it for a long time. 2+ perfect years it served us, nothing but oil and gas. Too bad it had such a short life.
  • regfootballregfootball Posts: 2,166
    cladding still is cladding. the last gen GP had it.
  • orwoodyorwoody Posts: 269
    back seat: I've had the recent pleasure of riding at least 25-35 miles in the back seats of my wife's Volvo V70, my 2003 GP GT, Lexus RX 300 and a Yukon Denali. The only one that was passable was the Yukon. The RX300 was the worst with a severe back rest angle. The GP and the Volvo were a toss up - both not too comfortable for other then short hops.
    Cladding: 1997-2003 was much better(less) than many and less than my 2001 Yukon Denali. It doesn't bother me like a Grand Am or a Mitsubishi Eclipse..
    Cars get better every decade: Those old enough to have driven or owned original 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's and 00 vehicles know this is a fact.
    the 60's was a great decade and into the 70's you could actually repair most of them yourself. And we were young enough to enjoy spending weekends and evenings repairing or maintaining. Brakes every 25-30k, shocks every 30-50k, water pump every 50k, a tranny or engine rebuild at 75-100k... if you got to a 100k with a 60's or 70's vehicle without a rebuild you had all the stars aligned.(no matter what make)
    The 80's were a real mixed bag and the foreign models such as Honda and Toyota got their overall quality levels much better than the domestic brands; even the early Audis were very trouble prone... trouble in the 80's was too many electronics were introduced that the average back yard mechanic couldn't diagnose/repair. The 90's saw a resurgence in most auto manufacturers with reliability gaps being closed by the end of the decade and a renewed interest in making "personal" driving machines verses cookie cutter cars. (Although the domestic mfrs in my opinion now take more styling flare/innovation than the Japanese)
    I think this decade will see a lot more exciting vehicles....
    I've lived through these decades, driving a hand me down 55 International pu to a 2003 GT....with 14 assorted domestic and foreign vehicles in between.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    Excellent post, and I agree totally about the older cars (I had a 1971 AMC Gremlin whose wipers failed about every 6,000 miles--a small clip that could only be found at Cadillac dealers~~it was off, I believe, a '49~~would break and slip off--The Caddy dealer was a friend of Dad's, he would sneer, give it to me, and say next time buy a Fleetwood...as if the particular 18 year old kid I was could afford one. The very last one I ever got before the car died, the parts guy at the Caddy dealer told me it was his last one. Then the car gave up the ghost. To this day, I wonder if there was a connection!).

    I do think that Toyota and Honda still share a slight reliability edge over the domestics, and all studies still confirm it. The perception edge they have with the public is far greater.

    Cladding? My 98 GTP had it, it didn't bother me, and I loved the fact that after a couple of years and 77,000 miles (and more importantly, many parking lots), it didn't have a single door ding.

    As for the back seat, try riding 25-30 miles in an 04 back seat. You may need someone to help you out. It is much lower and has virtually no support, especially in the back rest. I think this is so the seat can go down and become a flat floor. I can't and won't do that to my business clients, so GM lost a sale here. I think they are banking that more sales will be generated from those who are WOWwed by the flat floor feature than lost to people like me. They are probably right, too.

    Just as they think they will make more money by selling more leather seats due to the uglycloth (TM acknowledged), than than they lose due to car sales lost due to it.

    As others have pointed out, we Edmunds posters are not typical of the world at large.

    Oh well, it nudged me toward a Mazda6, which may well happen shortly!
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    johnclineii : 0% financing on Mazda 6 right now. Great deals. You may want to wait it out as sales are slowing.

    reg : LOL. You have a different definition of cladding but if a strip on the side is cladding to you then yes, the GP had it like lots of other cars.
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    O4GTPWS6, The Maxima has worst in class torque steer, never felt anything worse, even the 255hp one was pretty bad... ditto with the Altima.

    I have a 1958 Chevy Impala Convertible at home, so I know what you mean. Right now I'm going through a tranny leak, it has the cast iron 2 spd auto mated to the 348 4bbl V8, while driving and even parked, no leaks, but after parking it in the garage and going to use it 1 week later for a cruise night, big red puddle? I had the engine/tranny redone on it in 1999. Otherwise pretty good shape, blue with a white top. Thankgod I have power steering, but only manual brakes... after getting out of the impala, the brakes on my new cars feel so easy to push/powerfull. Nice ride, but I know what you mean about the 1963.

    Dindak, The 1997-2003 GP coupe was Pontiacs best looker in their lineup, my opinion of course, and had virtually no cladding. In fact I think it was tastefully done, unlike the UGLY Grand AM ribbed cladding 1/2 way up the door, which they are finally getting rid of. If you look at the Accord coupe, there is no strip at all, very easy to ding in a parking lot.
  • dan165dan165 Posts: 653
    Johnclineii, watch those Mazdas, I don't have a lot of faith in that company after seeing my buddy go through so much pain with his 626. Company does not stand behind it's products. The cars look attractive though, hopefully they have improved with the 6.

    Regfootball, where is the cladding?

    04gtpws6, any idea when you get your car?

    I had a guy come up to me yesterday to check out my car at the A&P parking lot. He had a 00 GP and was quite impressed with the new. He said his lease was up in 2 months so he would likely upgrade to an 04 given what he saw.
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    Dan165 I have people all the time commenting on the looks of my 2002 GTP coupe where I go. Remember, mine is also moddified with an aftermarket grille, tint, racing stripes, chrome wheels etc... The best was last week at the bank, I had a 80+ yr old guy with a early 90's Trofeo? tell me "nice car" and asked me questions about it, pretty nice. The 2004 GP looks nice, the back end could be a little better, but nice.

    The only major negative I have on the 2004 GTP is that there is NO COUPE... otherwise I would buy one in the future, but otherwise sadly I will look elsewhere next time. I love my coupes,. Everyone from 1962-1989 was a coupe only. The sedan didn't start up until 1989 or 1990.

    Where as with my 2001 i30t knowbody comments... probably too dull.. ha...
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    Dan165 did they finally improve the dull/ crappy headlights for your 2004 GP? Do they yet offer the HID headlamps yet, like the Maxima/Altima does?

     the 1997-2003 GP have the worst High-Beams I have ever used, near useless. The regular beams aren't that great either. I know alot of people that have complained about them.

    Dindak, how are the headlights on your intrigue? I know they had a big Intrigue recall for dull or flickering headlamps for 174,000 cars a while back. The W body seems to have weak headlamps.

    The best ones are the HID in my 2001 I30t.. the best regular headlights I have ever had.

    I am getting HID retrofitted to my 2002 GTP shortly.
  • 04gtpws604gtpws6 Posts: 12
    <<<<<<<<<<#2287 of 2292 orwoody by johnclineii Jun 17, 2003 (6:07 am)

    I think they are banking that more sales will be generated from those who are WOWwed by the flat floor feature than lost to people like me. They are probably right, too.>>>>>>>>>>>

    Yep, that's one of the things that appealed to me. I virtually never carry people in my back seat, but this sure would have come in handy when I was restoring my 63 for hauling around bumpers and windshield etc. without having to buy a SUV.
  • 04gtpws604gtpws6 Posts: 12
    <<<<<<<#2290 of 2293 by dan165 Jun 17, 2003 (10:12 am)

    04gtpws6, any idea when you get your car?>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Almost two months ago. Mine was built in the first couple weeks of production.
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    I had a faint flicker in very cold weather but I figured I would get the alternator replaced just for good measure before the warranty was up. I'm not sure if it helped because it never was cold enough after I had it replaced.

    Headlights on the new GP look much better than the ones on the old model. My brother in laws 01 GTP look really dull, he is planning on having them replaced with xenon things I think.
  • regfootballregfootball Posts: 2,166
    do we have to explain this again?

    On the GT there was a molding rub strip about halfway up the height of the door, and a slab of cladding attached to the lower part of the door, about 6 inches high or so, and roughly in line with the ground efx on the fenders in front and behind it. Its small, but techinically still classifies as cladding. Ground effects in most cases is just below the door as a sill piece, if a car has it at all. With the exception of Pontiac, very few makers have cladding (plastic on the doors). As an example, a Saab 9-3 vector has the sill skirts but no plastic on the door and still has a rub strip.

    My 89 SHO had cladding, my 99 does not, it has the sill pieces only.
  • carguy58carguy58 Posts: 2,303
    I know the 626 people had problems with them but people over do it because of the Ford Factor. The 626 had always been reliable to average reliability in quality. Anybody can make a lemon. That person probably got a lemon. My family had a lemon 92 Grand Am but I don't think all Gm products are like that.
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    The cladding on the 1997-2003 GTP was very well done and minimally done. Not much. It looks very good on that car. It was Pontiac's best looker in those years. The new Pontiacs are starting to go away with the cladding.

    That being said, I liked the SHO concept and considered one, but NO coupe and never cared for the 1996 and newer Tarus, too many ovals and it was nearly $5k more then the GTP and had less performance, so that is why I bought the GTP. I think the SHO was cancelled after 1999 for lack of sales.
  • Personally I don't understand why cladding is looked at as such a bad or cheap thing. I have a Grand Am and an Avalanche - both heavily cladded and I would have it no other way. If done right, I think it adds a bit of sportiness or toughness, depending on the vehicle. This year, Chevy began offering an Avalanche without cladding. I think it looks naked and not nearly as intimidating.

    And why is it that GM always gets picked on for cladding and not the Japanese models? Have you ever seen a Subaru? How about a Mitsubishi? And it seems like every SUV has some degree of cladding, but only GM models get mentioned in reviews as excessive, cheap or distasteful. It is certainly a double standard.
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    Reg : "but technically still classifies as cladding" - according to you at the cladding institute of America. If you think it's cladding, fine.

    Carguy : Actually a lot of previous generation 626s had major transmission issues. There used to be a lady in my office that had one. It was a nightmare. that said, I think Mazdas are about the same as GMs, average or maybe slightly above.
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    It's personal taste, I know people who love it. I don't care for it much.

    The new Toyota 4 Runner is covered in cladding also, never see it mentioned as bad. GM slaps it on an Avalanche and it's a crime. I know what you mean.
  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaPosts: 1,784
    Dindak: have you actually *looked* at an Avalanche? It's bad not because it's cladding; it's bad because it's *ugly* cladding.

    Back to the GP: I'm not saying it's a disaster. What I am saying is that GM had yet another opportunity to introduce something that would give the Camcords a run for their money, and instead introduced an overpriced, one-dimensional car that has an interior questionable enough to keep people away. Another GM misstep.

    2011 Buick Regal Turbo, 1968 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Holiday Coupe

  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    ab348, Look at the Maxima for an overpriced car and worst in class torque steer to boot.

    Some of us like performance in our cars, and the GTP beats the Camaccord hands down in every Perf category. If that is one dimensional, then so be it. Yeah the interior/reliabilitycould be better, but every car has its drawbacks... Toyota has the sludge problem on its 3.0L V6 engines that knowone happens to mention?? Honda had tranny problems on it's V6 engines, that it why it went to the 5spd auto tranny in '02 or '03? That doesn't get mentioned too often. Ask my friend about the problems he has had with his '01 Accord.. alot... I have yet to see the pefect all around car. the V6 Camry is underpowered.. everyone else is going to 240hp, except them at 200. No car is perfect. Buy what you like
  • regfootballregfootball Posts: 2,166
    "cladding institute of America" LOL

    I like it, Canadians get tuition reciprocity

    yes the GP did have cladding although it was not offensive as it was on the Bonneville and Grand Am.

    and sunfire

    and aztek

    ........

    um, yeah, and 6000....LeMans, the whole Fiero was cladded I guess, The Montana's got that stuff, what's it called? CLADDING. Did the firebird have it?

    So you see, while the GP was not bad it had to bear the legacy of the other Pontiac products.

    that and cheap interior plastics, man I'll tell you, there may be a lot good about Pontiac that's gotten way overshadowed by those those things alone. The zits and the bad hair just disguise the really hot looking gal underneath the frumpy clothes.

    i.e., if your sister is really freaking ugly, the boys might think there is something wrong with you too.

    Hey, the reviews for the new GP have been pretty good overall. Not glowing, but its been hard for them to say, put it at the bottom of a comparison test like its GM cousin in the small car Edmunds sedan test.

    What is absolutely a gut buster is how Pontiac PRODUCES a good looking contemporary decladded car finally (GTO) and all the idiots come out of the woodwork and lambast it for not being retro or trailer park. Come on man, the Monaro can sit side by side with an M3 and look just as hot on the Daytona strip, and all the ungratefuls whine and moan. 350hp and a hot bod and good interior and moaning because it doesn't look like some 35 year old relic.

    AND YET, these same folks might make apologies for the look of the new GRAND PRIX or grand am or Bonneville. WHAT'S the deal?

    question-why is the exterior plastic on pontiacs nicer than the interior? hmmmmm.....
  • tomcat630tomcat630 Posts: 854
    "um, yeah, and 6000....LeMans, the whole Fiero was cladded I guess"

    The Fiero was meant to be a plastic body panel car, not a "cladded" car. Also, Fiero development didn't go to waste, as some say. It led to the Saturn's use of plastic panels.

    Also, don't "guess", come up with real information. The Deawoo made LeMans never had cladding and the 6000 really only had a wide strip, no bigger than an '83 Camry's side trim.
  • ruskiruski Posts: 1,566
    hey, in Rx300 you could have reclined those rear seats.
  • oldsman01oldsman01 Posts: 1,203
    I still remember my dad's old 6000(and all the new words he used to describe it) and it did not have any cladding. It basically looked just like the Cutlass Ciera, Century, and Celebrity which it was. Pontiac cladding came in the very late 80s and got bad in the early to mid 90s. The 97-93 GP may have had cladding, but to me it was non-offensive. As I've said before, that generation GP was a very good looking car(especially the coupe). I will agree with you on the GTO. While I haven't seen one in person yet, I do like what I've seen in pictures.
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