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Pontiac Grand Prix - 2000-2005

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Comments

  • evandroevandro Posts: 1,108
    Anyone has ever had Yokohama Avid Tourig? They seem to fare well at http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/touring.jsp and have a unbeatable price.

    TIA
  • dan165dan165 Posts: 653
    Gunit, as far as I'm concerned the GT is a sport sedan. Big tires, lots o grunt power, superb handling and sporty looks all around fit my definition. I guess everyone has their own thoughts on what sport means.

    In terms of upgrading to the GTP, no thanks. While it's nice to have that power, I don't need it and to pay $5000 for something I don't need or want makes no sense. Breaking it down to $50/month doesn't make it any better either, you sound like a car salesman when you do that!
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    Dan165, << I guess everyone has their own thoughts on what sport means.>>

    You are right. Everybody has their opinion, the GP has the looks and peformance, but in my opinion it is only a sports sedan in GTP form. My '97 and '02 GTP's when stock did NOT feel like sports sedans to me when driven hard, after going to P245 50 16 Michelin Pilots and some small suspension/brake/and MAJOR engine upgrades then it felt like more like a sport car to me.

    And NO I am not a car salesman, back in 2002 the GTP was only $3k more then the GT and the $3k rebate negated that... so I bascially got my GTP for the same price of a GT back in '02. Plus the GTP holds its resale value a little higher. It also depends on how much $$ you are putting down on the car, I alwasy put enough down between cash and trade in to keep my payments below $350 per month
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    Evandro, I bought the I30t in 2001 as a replacement for my 1995 Aurora, and got the 4yr 60k warranty, free I35 loaner cars for anything including an oil change, free car washes/vacuums, best dealer service I have ever experienced and 10x better service then any GM dealer including caddy I have ever been to, not to mention much higher resale value and build quality on the Infiniti vs GM on avg, but every mfg has their lemons.

    Fullsized doesn't mean everything, my 1995 Aurora didn't have the room you would expect of a fullsized car and only had a 3 star crash rating. My i30t has the same 102 cu ft of space of the 1995-1999 Fullsized Aurora did and nearly the same sized 16 cu ft trunk. The I30t had the same performance or faster with a V6 vs the Aurora V8 and got about 4 miles better to the gallon. The I30t engine was smoother at high rpms as well. I30t could turn circles around the aurora, which was boatish at times. Historically the I30t holds its resale value much better and is much more reliable, though time will tell.

    Yes the i30t is a bit bland/boring/dull, my aurora was a looker, no doubt, only thing I miss about it. At least I don't have to pour 1 quart of oil every month into the I30t Like I did with the typical oil burning Northstar found in my '95 Aurora.
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    Regfootball, in my area you can get a leftover 2003 I35 with leather/sunroof /Bose radio/Xenon HID headlamps and the 255hp 3.5L V6 for $28k or less, pretty good for the $$. The styling is a bit bland, but also a 4yr 60k warranty and free loaner cars. Car does 0-60 in 7 seconds flat or better. Only negatives are bland sytling and bad torque steer.

    Yes I would NOT want a stripped G35 either, I alwasy get my cars fully loaded.
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    The Bonny and GP have the same sized 16 cu ft trunk, to me there isn't much more room in the Bonny. Cars are very similar in size. I think only 100 or 200 pounds seperates them?

    For the price of the Bonny SSEI one can buy a lexus or Infiniti or Acura and get the longer warranty and better build quality, my opinion/2 cents.
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    "so I bascially got my GTP for the same price of a GT"

    No you didn't, what kind of wierd math is that? You would have likely got about the same off a GT so you still paid about $3K more for a GTP.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    I'd been thinking the same thing, but I didn't want to rain on his parade!
  • sdasda Indian Land, SCPosts: 311
    I replaced the Goodyear Eagle LS tires with Yokohama Avid Touring on my 2000 Intrigue GL. I believe the GP uses the same size tire. I also read the Tire Rack comments as well as consulted Consumer Reports before making the decision. They seem to be decent tires for the price. They're quiet, ride well and seem to do well in rain. Handling tires they're not. If the Intrigue was our primary car, I think I would have sprung for a more performance oriented tire, ideally Michelin Pilots or something similar. Hope this helps.

    2010 Pilot EXL-RES, 2013 Accord EX

  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    Dindak, Yes I did
    "so I bascially got my GTP for the same price of a GT"

    <<No you didn't, what kind of wierd math is that? You would have likely got about the same off a GT so you still paid about $3K more for a GTP.>>

    No, Let me explain it better I got almost $6k off MSRP on my fully loaded 2002 GTP coupe in Sept. 2002, $28k msrp, I paid a tad over $22k. Dealer gave me the $3k rebate and took off nearly another $3k to unload it, since it had sat for 3 months on their lot, and the 2003's were just coming out, the dealer had to unload it, plus knowone wanted a coupe, I pretty much stole it for that price. The dealers were NOT giving the extra $3k off on the remaining GT coupes because they were selling better then the GTP coupes, bigtime.... So YES, I paid the same or less for my GTP coupe then a GT coupe? now do you understand?

    I paid LESS $$ for my new 2002 GTP coupe then my new 1997 GTP coupe. Was in the right place at the right time.

    A GTP is very good car for $22k, after my mods it is still CHEAPER & beats the '04's in every peformance category, besides the 2004's are NOT worth $28 - $30k.. That is Infiniti aka luxury territory.
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    SDA, the best enhancement you can make on your on your W body is to get RID of the stock P225 60 16 tires and go with P245 50 16 tires, makes a big difference. Only problem is that they cost alot more/harder to find and a rougher ride, but big peformance difference.
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    DIndak, I used to be the guy that had to have the newest car first on the block, IE... 1995 Aurora and 1997 GTP, I also paid premium dollar, I will never do that again, Better off waiting till the 2nd/3rd yr or later getting rebates/lower prices and the enhancments that come with 2nd and 3rd yr cars, work out the bugs, esp. on American models.

    The 1995 Aurora I had was supposed to compete with the best from Stugart according the literature in summer of '94, YEAH RIGHT... didn't come close... I fell for that once, never again
  • oldsman01oldsman01 Posts: 1,203
    Why are we all of the sudden picking on the Bonneville? I personally like the Bonnie quite a bit, especially the SSEi model. It's a bit more expensive than a GP, but is also a bit more car. Now I haven't driven an 04 GP, but owning an 01 Intrigue I can tell you that while GM has done a good job with the W-body, it does have it's shortcomings. The Bonneville's biggest advantage is it is built on the much more rigid G-body and shares some suspension components with the Cadillac STS. Not a bad car to share parts with. While the list price on an SSEi is rather high, they are typically discounted to the tune of $3000 or so. The SSEi was a pretty good choice of sedan in the low 30K range, however, now that the Cadillac CTS has come to town(and especially with the new 255 hp engine for 04) it does make it a bit harder to justify it. Hopefully Pontiac will follow through with the DOHC V8 they are been rumoured to put in the car. Other than maybe the G35(I still don't really like it's styling) I'd easily pick an SSEi over a Lexus/Acura/Infiniti product in it's price range. Although I have to say, I think I'd pick a CTS over all of them.
  • oldsman01oldsman01 Posts: 1,203
    My 01 Intrigue was the 4th year of production, yet it has had tons of problems. I agree with you somewhat on staying away from first year models, but I would include ANY marque, not just GM. Seems Lexus has had some first year teething problems with their new 5 speed automatic in the ES300 and some of the new Accords seem to be having transmission problems as well. Oh and 02 MB C-class owners have had quite a few electrical problems. On the flip side, the Cadillac CTS seems to not have any major recurring problems that are being reported. Quite a feat for any brand new car, built in a brand new assembly plant. But the fact that is it from GM is a revelation! If the future vehicles that come out of this new plant in Grand River MI continue to be well built and not have the problems others have had, my suggestion for GM would be to copy whatever is being done here differently and do it in every plant. And if the UAW tells them they can't do a certainl process or proceedure, tell them to get lost.
  • regfootballregfootball Posts: 2,166
    gunit, i was talking G35, not I35......
  • tek3tek3 Posts: 20
    Add the BMW X5 and Mini to that list of imports with first year problems.

    By the way Gunit, the '04 GP is light years ahead of the '97 - '03 GP. No comparison!
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    gunit : I can't follow your math, but whatever. Lets just say if anyone else walked into a Pontiac dealer today they would pay U$3K+ more.

    oldsman : If I was shopping today I'd likely end up in a 03 GP as the deals are outstanding and I could live with the dash. In a few years I can see myself getting a CTS though.
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    oldsman01,

    I'm not picking on it, the Bonny is nice but too me it's nothing more then a overglorified GP, same drivetrain and not much larger and a bigger price tag. Pontiac's flagship car needs more then just the same drivetrain transplanted from the GP. I also think the GP looks better. The Bonny SSEI doesn't have that many more features then the GTP, I thought the Bose radio in the GTP sounded better then the monsoon in the SSEI.

    I would buy a Lexus/Infiniti/Acura anyday over a SSEI, they are better built, more reliable, HIGHER resale value and have a longer warranty, 4yr 50k vs SSEI 3yr 36k.

    IF GM comes out with the 4.4L DOHC 280hp V8 then the Bonny would be more worthy, but how much will GM charge for that V8? Right now the GTP is a better buy. $5 or $6k cheaper, nearly same room and same drivetrain and better looking. My opinion
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    Oldsman01, Correction, I would stay away from most FIRST yr models, not just GM. I got burned twice in '95 with the Aurora and in '97 with the GTP. Also usually if you wait for the 2nd or 3rd year more features/improvements are usually made.

    The 1st yr of the Caddy CTS had manual tranny problems that were fixed for the 2nd yr, in addition to putting the temperature gage back in that they omitted in year one, who omits a temp gage today?

    The Intrigue reliability wasn't that great, look at CR magazine. I think the '99 to '01 are on their used car list to avoid. Even the GP reliability was so-so.

    I have had both American and Foreign cars, the Japanese cars seem to have less problems and be better built.

    Even Lutz at GM admitted they had some way to go on reliability/build quality and that they should equal the Japanese in a few yrs.. isn't that comforting to know? At least they finally admitted to it.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,530
    From a GM website:

    "Bonneville GXP model will begin production 3rd quarter 2003.

    On-line Order Guide information for Bonneville GXP available September 2003."

    - Ray
    Also curious about equipment - and price . . .
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    Tek3, sorry to say the "04 GP is NOT light years ahead of the '97-'03, especially when the '04 is built on the same W body chassis/platform from at least 1997 and uses the same 200hp drivetrain from 1997. The 2004 is The car is slightly slower 0-60 and 1/4 mile then the previous generation and isn't any bigger, go figure? So much for light years ahead, right? The backseat is worse on the 2004 vs the 1997-2003 as well.

    I would take a leftover 2003 anyday because of the $4k rebate. The 2004 is NOT worth $4k more.... I do not see $4k of improvements after test driving it. The tap shift is nothing more then a gimmick, doesn't make the car any faster or funner to drive. With the shift kit on my '02 I can instantly drop down and jump up gears too, and I paid less for the shift ki then the tap shift would cost.

    For $30k+, my car better say Lexus/Infiniti/Acura, NOT pontiac on it.
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    They made a Grand Prix GTX Ram Air from 1997-2000? which made 260 horse and had to be sent to SLP for the upgrade, but wasn't worth it for nearly $5k to only get a 20hp gain. You also got louder exhaust/handling etc too. And much nicer spoiler, ground effects/etc
  • oldsman01oldsman01 Posts: 1,203
    The temp gauge omission was minor and was an oversight, not a problem. Read through many of these threads(including my beloved Intrigue) and you see numerous problems that owner after after report(i.e. flickering headlights, warping brake rotors, steering intermediate shafts, etc). Now after being on sale for over a year, the CTS thread has not had these kind of problems. I think that bodes very well for the car. And on the same note, I haven't seen any here for the 04 GP either, although I don't think the reporting owner base is large enough to make a conclusion just yet.
  • dan165dan165 Posts: 653
    Gunit, Sorry, when you say it's "only $50 / mo" it sounds just like a car salesman. The GTP is in fact about C$4500 more which is a nice all inclusive vacation down south.

    Oldsman01, Never really cared for the Bonneville. I guess people buy it for the extra space though, it is a full size car. New engine will make it more attractive though. It should have had that when it came out.
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    "For $30k+, my car better say Lexus/Infiniti/Acura, NOT pontiac"

    If you are into superficial things like brand names then I guess that would make sense. I guess you won't be buying a GTO then.
  • evandroevandro Posts: 1,108
    Thanks for your feedback on the Avid Touring. But what do you think it lacked in handling?

    I probably value these characteristics in this order:
    - wet and dry traction, so that the car handles safely when it rains and the ABS doesn't need to kick in often when the sun shines.
    - ride and noise comfort, so that the engine sound is not overcome by the tire noise.
    - handling, so that the car doesn't wave around on grooved pavement.

    TIA
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    Oldsman01, I know the temp gauge omission was minor and they added it for year 2, but you have to admit it was in rather poor judgement on GM's part. Just like not giving the '97 GTP traction control until '98 another GM dumb dumb, yes many other car mfg make the same mistakes.

    Dindak, I highly doubt the avg GP buyer is buying the GT over the GTP to save the $3k or $4.5k Canadien difference for vacation. I found that hard to believe. The avg GP buyer is leasing or financing anyway, so they will only see the full $3 or $4.5 difference slowly/smally over the next 3-5yrs.

    The GTP is costing me roughly $70 per month more including gas and insurance over a GT. That is $840 per year, big whoop. That is my decision and I can afford it no problem. I like the better handling/power for only $70 per month.

    Remember the resale value will be slightly higher on a GTP then a GT, 5 yrs from now and the GTP will be more desirable as a tradein/private sale. There are pluses and minuses to everything.

    Buy what you like and I will buy what I like
  • "I highly doubt the avg GP buyer is buying the GT over the GTP to save the $3k or $4.5k Canadien difference for vacation. I found that hard to believe. The avg GP buyer is leasing or financing anyway, so they will only see the full $3 or $4.5 difference slowly/smally over the next 3-5yrs."

    A reoccurring theme here is that someone finds it hard to believe this or that about the average person, and we keep trying to change his/her mind. Let's all get past this and try to discuss something useful.

    I have an 04 GT2 on order. I really debated getting a leftover 03 with the huge rebate, but I decided not to. To listen to someone tell me over and over that they would never buy an 04 is counterproductive in my opinion. Everyone has expressed their opinion. Now let's move on.....please.
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    Midlifecrisis, I"m not trying to change anyone's mind, If you took it that way I apologize, Goodluck on the GT2, 2004 GP is nice,

    I just don't see enough improvements over the previous generation, and the 2004 is built on the same 1997 W body platformwith the same 1997 power ratings, and I would never buy one, too old, It's like buying a 1997 disguised with new sheetmetal and more insulation. The GP needs a full overhaul, my opinion, If I want to say that I would never buy a 2004 that is my opinon to stato so, I never said it was fact, besides for me since GP cancelled the coupe after 2002 they lost another customer.

    GM forgets that 20-25% of its customers were COUPE BUYERS... many people at the Auto show in NYC came up to the GM person complaining about the lack of a coupe, they said they didn't know or sited lack of sales, I didn't realize that 25% of their sales was lack of sales? That is why the 2003 sold less. The 2004 is only at a 10% increase over 2003, which means it is still below 2002 GP sales. Back in 1997 the GP sales went up 50%, the 2004 will most likely never see that, the competition has caught up and surpassed it.

    The average smart person can see through the 2004 GP as as only a reskinned 1997and not an ALL NEW car with the same power ratings from '97 , while the competions, Accord/Altima/Max have increased size and power and platforms.

    Enjoy your 1997, oops I mean 2004 GP.
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    The interior in the 2004 GP is still almost as CRAPPY as the 1997-2003, GM wonders why it keeps losing ground to the imports. Notice, Honda and Toyota don't have to use $3k and $4k rebates to sell their cars in record numbers!! In fact the Honda Odyssey and loaded Accord V6 coupe sells for MSRP or higher and people are stil lining up to buy it, meanwhile GM can't give their minivans away even with big incentives and rebates... It's also a quality perception problem. I think GM has made better strides, but people still have that mentality from the 1980's and 1990's of Honda/Toyota equallying quality and even Lutz admitted that GM has a few yrs to go to match the Honda/Toyota's..

    Funny thing is that I was in a my friends new Hyundai XG350 and you would never think it was a Hyundai, the interior was MUCH BETTER then then the 2004 GTP. The XG350 costs less. What is GM's problem with these garbage interiors?
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