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Pontiac Grand Prix - 2000-2005

18889919394145

Comments

  • regfootballregfootball Posts: 2,166
    if not fisher price, then rubbermaid? tupperware?
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    Regfootball, LOL.. I know, II hear ya, regardless I will say this one last time the GP interior, esp 97-03 was very cheap, I know firshand, the '04 isn't much of an improvement, it's a shame that GM can't do better in a car that comes close to $30k fully loaded interior wise in GTP form.

    The new Accord interior is just as nice as my Infiniti I30 interior.... Before I got out of it I almost thought I was in an infiniti/acura.
  • richm4richm4 Posts: 169
    If I remember correctly, one of the magazines coined that term when reviewing the 97 GP when it first came out back in 96. "Land-O-Plastic" too.
  • ruskiruski Posts: 1,566
    dealer didn't have any available for a 24-hour test drive but let me take one for 2 hours.

    Great ride. Nice turning, although it was a bit floaty. I guess I need to try a Comp-G - dealer didn't have any of those.

    I liked how smooth the ride was and how quiet it was inside.

    I asked a colleague with manual 330i to race me a bit and he barely pulled away after 50mph. I actually stopped pushing GTP too hard for fear of cops.

    I always loved GTP's power and how it is always available.
    By comparison I often have to floor my Acura TL-S and wait for the little devils inside to wake up. Sometimes by the time they wake up it is too late to jump into a spot that was opened a second ago.
    With GTP - you see a spot, you point, you shoot, done.

    Also GTP felt like it had soft brakes, but actually they are not soft, they are smooth.
    After I drove the GTP, I got into my Acura TL-S and found myself overshooting stop lines.

    Something I didn't like - how the interior window sill looks from outside near the front window corner. Not a clean design when viewed from outside.

    GTP turns great but at the same time it feels floaty, I guess one can get used to that. Or get a Comp-G.

    Red glowing MPH in the speedo is annoying. I kept noticing it and thinking it was some kind f warning.
  • oldsman01oldsman01 Posts: 1,203
    The cheap looking interior was pretty much what pushed me to the Intrigue over a GTP coupe two years ago. While the Intrigue has a few parts that look a bit low end, for the most part it's interior is more upscale than the previous gen GP as well as the Regal. Mine now has 33K and there are very few rattles that I here. I'll have to disagree with you on the Honda Accord interior. The quality of the materials may be pretty good, but other than then electroluminescent instrument cluster nothing about it looks upscale. It still has all the personality of the control panel on my Kenmore washer. While not much better, the Camry's dash design looks better IMO. Of the import brands, I think the Mazda 6 is near the best in this class.
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    I have to admit, I'm not crazy about the red lights on the interior. I remember getting used to it on our 98, but never really liking it much. That said BMW does it so I guess until they stop, Pontiac is likely to keep with it.
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    dindak, The red lights theoretically reduces eye strain/fatigue and is used in many aircraft, however at night you have headlights blaring at you I guess it doesn't help much. I kind of like the red lights. I first had used them in a friends 1988 BMW 528
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    Ruski, the 330 has less hp and torque then the GTP and is a 7.0 second car, the GTP is a 6.6 second car. So yeah the GTP should be faster. A strut tower brace for a bout $119 will make a better dif in handling, it could also be the factory tires which are usually crappy on the GTPS

    >>By comparison I often have to floor my Acura TL-S and wait for the little devils inside to wake up. Sometimes by the time they wake up it is too late to jump into a spot that was opened a second ago.<<

    Ditto with my 227hp I30t, thats a SOHC or DOHC engine for you you have to wind them up like a sewing machine to get pwr from them, the VVT or vtech has helped with low end pwr, but still no match for the 3800. Esp the S/C 3800. Pushrod 3800 gives you instant response at nearly any rpm. My i30t dosen't make decent power until it is too late sometimes.. I agree. But once you are on it happily/refinely winds to its 6500rpm
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    The Intrigue interior is one of the nicest of any W Body. But like you said at 33k you are starting to get a few rattles, even the current W body of 1997 and on will rattle, more so then the accord.cams. The buld quality is just not as good. Getting there though. The ES300 has one of the best interiors I have personally sat in for that price range, The mark levinson and wood were much better then my I30t, but didn't feel like spending $5k more for the lexus which did not handle as good or fell as sporty to drive as the i30t. I don't care for the ES300/Camry looks when they redesigned them for '02?

    I have to disagree with you, The new accord interior is near luxury car territory, much better then any W body. Too bad they can't improve the ugly backend...

    Haven't sat in or drove the mazda 6 yet, I should.

    I went fo the GTP because I would rather have the sportier coupe and much more power, GTP felt sportier to drive, It is much EASIER and CHEAPER to modify a GTP 3800 then it is a Intrigue 3.5 to make lots of pwr. interior was last on my list. Besides I had the '95 Aurora, their flagship car already, didn't want to downgrade to an Intrigue. My i30t interior is 10x better then my GTP.
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    My 3 1/2 year old Intrigue is still rattle free with 61K kms on the dial.

    You are right though, much easier to modify the 3800 SC.
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    Dindak, my 2002 GTP is still rattle free with only 8k miles, knock on wood, we'll see.

    You can modify and add an aftermarket SC to the 3.5, but it's bick bucks and not sure what that does to the reliability issues.

    There is a guy that has a '98 intrigue with the 3800 that he dropped the L67 or 3800 SC engine into with major mods, talk about a sleeper, you wouldn't know until he he posted a 1//4 in the low 13's one night... nice.
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    My take is that GM quality didn't really start to excelerate until 99-00. I notice big improvements in 03/04 models, even ones that have been around for a few years. It's not Honda/Toyota yet, but it's getting close. Of course Honda / Toyota drivers would vener believe that.
  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaPosts: 2,145
    If the GP had a Rubbermaid or Tupperware interior, at least the plastic would be soft, not hard, shiny and black... ;-)

    2014 Cadillac ATS4 2.0T, 1968 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Holiday Coupe

  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    Yeah the newer GM's quality have improved , but so have the other auto mfg's too... Even Lutz admitted they still have a few more years to supposedly match the Japanese. But they are getting better. Most Honda/Toyota drivers think their cars are so perfect and never break, HOWEVER GM still does make some of the CRAPPIEST/CHEAPEST Interiors and the 2004 GP needs a better interior, esp for that price range...

    Actually the Intrigue 1999 and 2001 are on CR used car list to avoid, the 1997 GP is on that list

         It's funny when the Honda Toyota people tell you how their car is the #1 selling so it must be the best, somebody forgot to tell these people that actually the Ford F150 has been the #1 seller for like 20+ yrs in a row now. Outsells the Accord by 2-1. There were a few yrs when the Taruaus outsold the Accord. Most sales don't make a car the best, like some people think. These same people also never mention the sludge problem Toyota/Lexus had with their 3.0L V6 from 1996-2000? Or the Honda auto tranny problems, esp with the Odyssey from 1999-2001, why doesn't that ever reflect in the consumer reports or vehicle surveys? The tranny was given a perfect rating in CR from 1995-2001 yet Honda admitted it had problems? Biased reviewers?? BTW.. where is Honda's V8 engine? Oops they don't have one, their flagship Acura still makes do with a V6 while the competition has V8's for years.

    If GM fixed up more of their interiors their sells would instantly increase.
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    <<With its heavy steering, stiff suspension, and busy, overly firm ride, the GP tries-most unsuccessfully to be sporty. Handling is forgiving and secure, but the car isnt' particularly agile Flimsy and cheap-looking plastic trim give the interior a low-rent feel>>>

        From Consumer Reports February 2002.

    It is sporty regardless of what CR says, yet they said the Old man's floaty boat riding Avalon was actually agile or well handling somewhere... I don't put any merit in what CR comes up with...
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    CR is inconsistent. The 00 and 01 Intrigue are the same car and yet the 01 you should avoid? Me thinks they have a very small sample size.

    I actually like the look of the 04 GP dash better than my Intrigue in many ways. Problem with the GP is the price range is huge and on the lower end GT, the dash quality is just fine. On the GTP $$ side, it's a bit low end.
  • dan165dan165 Posts: 653
    Still think my GP interior is just fine. I like it more all the time and I find the seats to be the most comfortable I've had. Material is not cheap, some people seem to think so but I think it has more to do with the patterns.

    Lots of GM bashing going on at the Honda Accord forum. As an Accord owner I used to do it also, but I'm happy with my car and I do thing GM has come a long way from 10 years ago. If I had to do it again tomorrow I would buy another 04 Grand
    Prix GT2!!!!!!
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    Dindak, You are right, the 99 GP was on the avoid list then taken off last year.... now the 97 is there? Ok... I always get a laugh from reading the auto section in CR. In a recent luxury test, last months? they clearly rated the Lincoln LS #1 but then go on to say they can't recommend it because of bad past reliability issues? Then why did they pick it #1 then? DUH!! They lost credibility right there. All the cars were luxury brands except the Maxima? Max shouldn't have been in that test, wasn't a luxury brand. Oh well.

    Yes, near $30k is too much for a GTP COMP G, I would rather have a leftover '03 I35 for that price or cheaper. Or the leftover '03 GTP's if any exisit. The '04 GT is priced ok.

    Yes the leather/seats and dash readout/speedo tach are better in the 04...but the rest is the same cheapness Still not up to the competition yet in the interior, everything else is ok.
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    Dan165, the '04 interior is slightly improved from the '03, but I think GM could have done alot better. The leather is a definite improvement over the Pleather stuff in the '03's... I love the speedo/tach arrangement. But the rest needs better material. I would buy a 2004 GTP compG tomorrow IF they brought back the coupe. Oh well.. we'll wait and see

    I only get leather in my cars esp with kids, much easier to clean up and help prevent stains... As for the Accord, has always been a dull appliance, esp. in 4 door form. The 4cylinder was always too underpowered for my tatests, should be V6 only, but then they would loose sales, since only 20% of Accords are V6's... And the new 2003 sedan backend is Butt ugly... They should have made the 4 door out of the coupe which has some nice hints of Mercedes in the backend.

    I'm a GM fan, but I will give Honda credit for getting 240hp from tht 3.0L and the nice interior. Just wish they could make an exciting/sporty accord.
  • regfootballregfootball Posts: 2,166
    "If GM fixed up more of their interiors their sells would instantly increase"

    they would increase by more than they know, but there are a few other things they need to work on yet too.
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    240 hp is impressive, but the torque isn't great and it still runs on a belt which means expensive $$ service down the road. Accord rear is the worst part, the rest I really like. Coupe is better, especially the blue one I saw yesterday with the hot blonde in it. ;-)
  • ruskiruski Posts: 1,566
    330 with a stick is quicker than the GTP.
  • ruskiruski Posts: 1,566
    the turn signal clicking is unbelievably soft
  • oldsman01oldsman01 Posts: 1,203
    240 HP from the Honda 3.0 liter looks good on paper, but I think you of all people would probably cite a definite lack of low end torque. As for CR, they are very inconsistant. The 99 and 01 Intrigues should be avoided, but not the 98,00, or 02. Other than 98s having the 3800 V6, the car was basically the same since it came out. And from the Intrigue thread here at Edmunds, the 98s were by far the most problematic. Your right about best sellers not necessarily being the best product. Not all that long ago, GM's A-body Cutlass Ciera and Buick Century were among the 10 best selling cars in the US. Hardly stellar products. Even today, the old Cavalier is a big seller. With the Accord, your at least getting a decent car as opposed to the past, but it's nothing earth shattering IMO. In fact, if you looked at the top 10 selling vehicles of today, most are likely to be mere transportation appliances.
  • oldsman01oldsman01 Posts: 1,203
    It's always interesting how people(and especially the auto press) like to bash GM products endlessly. Yeah, they made alot of crap for a while and even today there is still room for imrovement, but you know what? Even MBs have room for improvement. Despite the problems I've had with it(and the even bigger nightmares that have been dealer service departments) I still like my Intrigue alot. Every time I see a Toyota Camry with it's low hanging tailpipe, I wonder why no one in the press picks that up.
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    People generally want appliances these days, sad but true. Honda and Toyota are the masters of this. Very plain looking cars with good reliability. Hard to look at almost any of their vehicles and get excited.

    Toyota Camry - a Japanese Buick. I think the Camry is actually more of a Buick than a Buick will be. I never see anyone under 40 driving on and most are sold to seniors.
  • dan165dan165 Posts: 653
    Gunit, I don't like the 03 dash much, I don't think I would have bought if that's all Pontiac had. I love the new 04 dash especially.

    Oldsman, The V6 Accord didn't really feel much faster than the 04 GT. The 40 extra HP don't show much, that's for sure. Maybe on the highway it would be a bit faster for passing.
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    Dindak, I do NOT like timing belts only chains, another reason I bought the I30t, uses a metal timing chain just like my GTP, BMW and Mercedes.

    The 1997-2003 dash is stylish and like the DIC but it is CHEAP , but I bought the car for its styling/handling and 240HP and its a coupe, easy mods, definitely not the cheap interior. To me the 2004 interior while yes improved, still not up to the competition, still on the cheap side esp if you are laying down nearly $30k for it in GTP form. I like the trip computer better on the '03 then the new '04...
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    Dindak, the accord may have 240hp but doesn't have the monstrous 280 ft lbs torque of the GTP and doesn't make its 212 ft lbs of torque till 5000rpm that is why the '04 GT initially feels faster, Max torque at 5000rpm is too high, better suited for highways, not for stoplights or low speed merging, but the numbers don't lie and the accord is 1 full second faster 0-60mph then the GT. 7 vs 8.
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    Oldsman01, I had a GM A body, 1985 Ciera, piece of crap.. typical bad GM paint, you name it. By 70k miles it was falling apart. In those years the cars were very slow. The standard engine that year was 2.5 L 4 banger "iron Duke" making 90 hp and 0-60 nearly 13 or 14 seconds... The optional 3.0 V6 2bll with 110 hp wasn't any better. I had the 3.8 with 120 or 125hp, even that lacked punch.

    Even the G bodies of 1978-1987 with the std 3.8 V6 were total wastes, that couldn't move out of their own ways EXCEPT the Buick Turbocharged versions... the optional 5.0L 305 or 307 was the way to go in those yrs on the g body... even then they were only 140-150hp, but 250+ torque. The worst one I ever tested in 1986 when I was buying my first new car was a G body Olds Supreme V8 loaded with the 2.14 final drive ratio... the slowest V8 I ever drove in my life... It used the undersized TH250 3 spd tranny and you could nearly wind out 1st gear to 50mph+ the 2.14 ratio killed the V8, gas mileage car thats all. I spent the extra on the 442, which gave you 30 more horse, modes 170 and that car actually had good pwr for 1986, 9 second car. Was very bad in any snow.

    Its funny that the Cavalier that now dates back to 1995 minus its new echotech 4 banger and new back/front ends actually has increased sales by 10 or 20% recently... Those are crude cars... I rented an new 2001 Sunfire with the base 120hp engine and auto tranny? In the summer with the A/C on and 2 people in the car i couldn't move out of its own way, had to floor it everytime to pull out. It was very noisy past 3000 rpm.

    I would never be buying a Caraccordtaruaus, SHO edition was nice.

    Yeah what is up with that Very LOW hanging tailpip on the new camry's? I thought I was the only one who noticed that?

    The M class Mercedes, the early ones were nightmares, 2 of my neighbors had nothing but problems with their ML320's and traded them in, though I have heared they are ok now.
This discussion has been closed.