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2011 Toyota Avalon



  • twinbtwinb Posts: 140
    I wonder if there's a political committee somewhere that can check into this for us Skip. These nagging doubts are keeping me awake at night.
  • nceencee Posts: 419
    It's not the doubts for me, it's the mixed messages we get. But I'm starting to wonder if this is what we can expect from Toyota for now?

    I'm sure you sat in the car …
    I'm also sure it was shorter …

    I'm not sure why, or why Toyota say's it's the same, if it's not?

    It doesn't matter to me, as I'm only 5' 7" tall:)

    And after Uncle Sam got done with me yesterday, I don't know if I'll be getting a new car now:(

  • manatoc5manatoc5 Posts: 19
    Road test , dry conditions, terrain: mix of flat and medium hills,
    60 mile run, speed: 59 mph, results: 33.7 mpg, cruise control on,

    will try again with nitrogen in my tires and a K & N filter installed.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    You already have ~80% nitrogen in your tires and instead of installing a K & N why not simply remove the OEM filter..??

    The FE gain, if any, will be about the same or better even. You will then know the full range of FE that could be gained, but with no downside such as the MAF/IAT sensors getting contaminated with the oil wicked off of the K&N.

    Oh, the only advantage to the K&N is at WOT, otherwise the throttle plate is the MAJOR restriction to intake airflow.

    Do you REALLY want to extend FE..??

    Mechanically block the throttle plate from opening beyond 3/4's.
  • manatoc5manatoc5 Posts: 19
    I have tried the K&N filters on other vehicles and it vastly improves take off speed. That is if you have to speed up quickly to get on the expressway or to avoid
    an accident, such as a trucker swerving into your lane that did not see you, there is a vast difference between an OEM filter and K&N.

    Where can I go to verify your issue with the MAF/IAT sensors getting contaminated with oil? I would like to see some verification because my mechanic uses it in his vehicles.


    Dennis W
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    edited March 2010
    OEM intake air filters are generally better than 90% efficient, average during their normal life useage. K&N has an intake efficiency more in the range of 95% before it needs to be cleaned and re-oiled.

    For a 300HP engine that makes a difference of ~5%, 270HP at WOT for the OEM filter vs 285HP for the K&N

    If I really felt I needed that 10% of extra "GO" I would design an intake airflow bypass system that bypassed ALL intake flow restrictions but only at WOT.

    Verification = Google.
  • manatoc5manatoc5 Posts: 19
    2010 Avalon Limited , purchased in Akron, Ohio, March 2010.
    All tires filled with Nitrogen at Terry's Tire Town North Canton, Ohio.
    60 mile road test on March 31, 2010 From Tallmadge, Ohio to Lake Milton, Ohio and back on the expressway.Temperature 60, pavement dry,
    sunny day, speed 59 mph, mpg= 37.7 miles per gallon on that trip.
    mpg without nitrogen in tires on same trip loop=33.7mpg
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    Sure, and I have a bridge available for cheap, or some prime swamp land in Florida if you would rather.

    What was the tire pressure BEFORE inflating with nitrogen....??

    60 miles --- GPS or actual map...or OBC..??

    If OBC what was the tire pressure before re-inflating vs after...??

    MPG via OBC, or calculation based on refilling, topping off, before and after.

    ~1.5 gallon refill leaves a LOT of room for fully topping off, or not.
  • finfin atlantaPosts: 588
    edited April 2010
    Interesting information....but if N made that much difference in gas mileage it would have been in car tires decades ago. This just can't happen due to N inflation. The most benefit you can expect from N is about 1 to 3 percent. There are several reasons for this but the primary one is that tires stay at a preset proper pressure longer. This minimizes rolling resistance for a greater period of time and gas mileage improves.

    In this same thought pattern... Delta and other major airlines have recently begun filling all aircraft tires with Helium. The added lift saves on jet fuel..... this is true because....... ;)
  • kenb757kenb757 Posts: 149
    edited April 2010
    Aircraft tires are filled with inert nitrogen to prevent explosions due to overheated brakes. A Mexicana 727 was lost out of Mexico City some years ago because they used air. Larger aircraft use fuse plugs that melt and deflate the tires in a controlled manner when the brakes overheat.
  • kenb757kenb757 Posts: 149
    edited April 2010
    There are many products that scam the gullible consumer into thinking they'll get better fuel mileage:

    Products added to the oil: In a normally operating piston engine, a maximum loss of 5% efficiency is due to friction. Therefore, the maximum benefit to fuel efficiency would be 5% for any of these products, if the product could reduce friction to zero, which no product can. Some of these products may clog smaller oil orifices in the engine.

    Products added to the coolant: These tout a cooler running engine as a benefit. Normally only the thermostat controls the running temperature of the engine (coolant temperature around 195-210 degrees in most engines). You don't want the engine to run cooler. If it does, as might be the case with a thermostat stuck open, the CTS (coolant temperature sensor) will tell the computer the engine is cold and add to fuel consumption by remaining in open loop operation.

    Products added to fuel: Tier one fuels contain enough detergents to keep your fuel system and injectors clean with using additional cleaners. Exception: I usually use some Marvel Mystery Oil (upper cylinder lubricant) in the first two or three tankfuls of fuel in a new car. It may ease the break-in resulting in a tighter engine.

    Also, Mobil 1 synthetic oil is worth every penny and is now recommended by Cadillac.

    Never ceases to amaze me how a few money-hungry bozos think they can outdo the auto engineers. But, as PT Barum once said. . . . :D
  • manatoc5manatoc5 Posts: 19
    Nitrogen works and I proved it on a road test with the car computer doing the
    mpg calculations. Try to think outside the box. You probably don't take vitamins either, thinking only the medical establishment and the drug companies with chemotherapy are authorized to save your life.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    " computer doing the calculations..."

    Just as I suspected, OBC, On Board Computer.

    Only accurate over the long term, no direct measure of fuel flow into the intake manifold, only an approximation. Certainly not accurate enough to determine MPG during the use of less than 2 gallons.

    DTE, Distance To Empty, is no longer available for most car OBC's due to driver over-relying, running out of gas in the middle of death valley.
  • kenb757kenb757 Posts: 149
    The only way nitrogen would make a difference is if the tire pressure was increased. Nitrogen weighs about the same as air (78% of our atmosphere is nitrogen, 21% oxygen, and 1% other gases).
  • tfeltontfelton Posts: 80
    I'd like to jump in on the nitrogen question. Nitrogen would be OK if it were readily available; everywhere. Here in Arkansas where I live the only place I can get it is at my dealer and I'm not going to him every time I want to check and adjust my tire pressure, which I do at least a couple of times a month. I have a commercial grade compressor in my shop, but no nitrogen. And then, what do you do on the road if something happens? I think just keeping tires properly inflated is the best strategy. And that, along with good tires, is the best safety feature your car can have.
  • bergaminibergamini Posts: 45
    Going back to the Avalon itself, I've now got my '11 and have to be one of the first. Here are my impressions:

    1. The interior is gorgeous. It is a vast improvement over the '05-'10. There is more wood, it is more natural looking and the aluminium covers are more muted and of higher quality. The gauges are great and it is so much more modern. At this price point, no vehicle has an interior this high of a quality. The Lacrosse is a bit more flashy but not nearly as classy. Nothing Acura has in this range has as clean and luxurious of an interior. The Taurus is nice but not as elegant.

    2. The NAV system is light years ahead although I don't think it is the best NAV out there. It is better. The whole interface with sat radio and the back-up camera is slick and so far, no noticeable lags.

    3. The Limited perforated leather is of a higher quality than the base "Avalon class" but I just like that smooth leather more and I'm not sure why. I have a dog and take people on trips to tennis tournaments so the durability of the perforated leather is going to be awesome but I just like the smooth leather better.

    4. The headroom is the same as the '06-'10. No differences, no problems. It really appears that they tweaked the body exterior panels (not structure) and revamped the interior and electronics. Why fix the things that are not broken?

    5. I didn't think I would want/need the seat extension on the driver's side but I used it on a 75 mile interstate cruise and loved it. I'm over 6' and of a solid frame so maybe more petite people may find it worthless.

    6. I'm still getting used to the HID headlamps. They are nice but I've been driving for 20 years and it is a change.

    7. The Zephyr Blue is gorgeous.

    8. I got the 2 years of maintenance b/c I took delivery by 4/5. It wasn't limited to the '10's (I owned an '04 XLS before buying this '11).

    I wanted one so badly and while I did save $3K on list, I could have maybe saved more if I had waited. I don't regret it. This is a really nice car. It always has been a really nice car but this is the first time the electronics are thoroughly modern. Thumbs up so far!
  • bergaminibergamini Posts: 45
    My only complaint is the trim around the nav/radio. It is aluminium and fine but I really love that woodgrain. They could have made it thinner and used woodgrain but then my tastes are influenced by my grandfather's Mercury and Oldsmobiles of the '80's.
  • When you took delivery maybe someone at the dealership mentioned the Toyota vs. Honda "leasing price war"? I would love to go test an '11 Av assuming they are in stock here in Ohio. Anything to add on MSRP and closer-to-invoice discounts in light of this price war? TIA for your thoughts!
  • manatoc5manatoc5 Posts: 19
    Before I bought my 2010, I went to the Cleveland Auto show and sat in the
    2011. I did not like the way they changed the interior styling and flow. The 2010 has great interior lines. In the 2011 they trashed all that by simply putting a square box to the right of the steering wheel. That isn't style, it simply makes things easier for the engineer. Glad you like your 2011, but they gave me $6,000 in discounts, which I could not believe, but I just happened to walk in with the sunday paper and all the competitive discounts from all the Toyota dealers at the height of their gas pedal problems and simply stole a 2010 Avalon Ltd.
  • hdfatboyhdfatboy Posts: 324
    Can you now enter a destination or use the bluetooth phone features while underway or do you still need to stop the vehicle to input this data into the Nav System? If Toyota is continuing to limit the functionality of the 2011 Avalon Nav system while the vehicle is underway, that is a serious problem from my perspective. Any insight you can share on the Nav system's limitations would be greatly appreciated.
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