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Audi A6

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Comments

  • jscatenajscatena Posts: 61
    Well, I've narrowed it down to these two fine choices. I wonder if anyone out there can give me some input that wil help me decide. I love both vehicles and have worked a fairly god deal but I can't decide.

    jpscatena@t-one.net
  • bertram60bertram60 Posts: 113
    Perhaps all our gushing over this product is not clear, but you are in the midst of a group of performance drivers, most of whom have driven almost everything on the market.

    We have (Mark has) pretty much beaten this "Japanese reliability" issue to death, and most agree that we would sacrifice some "reliability without soul" for some real "drive-ability"

    It looks to me by your many posts here that you are an Infinity salesman looking to find some new customers. Perhaps you should try the Toyota and Nissan boards for some recruits. I think you'll have a hard time selling here.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,049
    Randy:

    Great post! Just the other day I was thinking as I read a post here about an Infinity G-35 that someone had signed on to the wrong town hall!

    We are certainly all not pleased with our Audis all of the time. We have critiqued them -- fairly I think -- and praised them enthusiastically. I don't know if others try to sway opinions, but generally I stay away from the town halls representing other brands (than Audi and VW).

    I don't think I have the "right" to sign onto the Lexus chat room/town hall/BB or whatever and trash OR praise Lexus vehicles for example. I have test driven and rented a lot of cars, but my "passion" and "expertise" is with the Audi and to a lesser extent VW brands.

    What a great zing, Randy!
  • bjbird2bjbird2 Posts: 647
    I'm probably as much of a performance driver as you are having grown up in a family that drove most of the German brands. I've driven nothing but performance cars all my life, including a Cobra for a short time, until I had to give it up because my wife was pregnant, and couldn't live with the skateboard-like ride.
    All I'm saying is keep an open mind when judging cars, and watch your rear view mirror because the competition is getting better very fast.
  • bertram60bertram60 Posts: 113
    But I think we are all open minded here and acknowledge some of the virtues of a "reliable" vehicle. We just like our Audi's.

    As I prepare to make a purchase, be it for an SUV or a performance sedan, I look at the entire market segment to see what's available. I am always trying to find something different, not the same thing everyone else has and something that fits my wants, needs and desires. I do not discriminate due to price, and will look above and below my budget. I am fortunate enough and have worked hard enough to buy whatever I want (my wife is the only "price buster" as it is hard to justify some of my toys to her!).

    I would also say to you that straight line performance does not make a performance car. My Porsche's may not have been the fastest 0-60 vehicles out there (well, my friends current 996 twin Turbo actually may be!) but they would walk away from faster cars when pushed to the limits on the twisties. Some of the definition of performance, of course, belongs to the driver.

    Actually, I think most of us here think our Audi's are performance vehicles where as most of the other Japanese products are more "transportation". That is not meant derogatively, but merely my opinion and that of others on this board. To each his own.

    Oh, one more thing, this is the Audi board, I don't know that we really have to be open minded here!
  • bjbird2bjbird2 Posts: 647
    Bertram60,
    You must not be as much of a performannce enthusiast as I gave you credit for if you think the Cobra is only good for straight line acceleration. I've owned a 911, and my father has had two, and believe me, the Cobra would keep up with them in the twisties.
    But that's a subject for another post. I get the impression that people on this post don't want to make performance car comparisons unless it's a Volkswagen.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,049
    Let's all take a deep breath.

    First I saw no statement pertaining to the Cobra (unless by possible inference) made by Randy.

    Second, I, for one, do not and cannot compare any Audi I have ever owned to a sports car -- no Audi that is generally available will compete with a Porsche or a Vette, well maybe my wife's TT could be compared to a Boxster.

    I look at the Audi's as sports sedans -- and I think they rival or better just about anything out there, unless you factor in price, then they beat anything out there (and this is my opinion, please I do not want to start a fight with BMW owners).

    I think the point that is being made is that this forum is fundamentally for people who are passionate about Audis (in this case A6's). For all I know there may be some "objective" rating of Infinity or Jaguar or Volvo that "proves" who makes the best car -- but I doubt it.

    We can and do criticize our Audi's -- but we own them, we frankly are at a disadvantage to compare them to an Infinity for example. I have nothing against an Infiniti or a Jaguar or a Volvo, but I would not buy one TODAY with my own money. I will take a free one, however and probably will not feel I have been dumped on. So far, no one has offered me any car that I don't have to pay for.

    I would not compare an S8 to a Cobra, for example -- they are both performance cars, however. Under certain circumstances each has strengths that overpower the other. Likewise I do not compare my A6 (with sport package) to any Porsche, even though I MIGHT be able to do some things "better" in my Audi.

    Basically Audis are sporty sedans, "Avants," coupes and ragtops -- for this reason I do not compare them with Hummers either.

    Hopefully we can discuss anything on this forum, but practically speaking, this particular forum is for and about the [love] of Audi A6's. There are forums for practically all tastes.
  • bjbird2bjbird2 Posts: 647
    OK Mark, I thought when I saw your postings comparing Volkswagens to Audis that you would be open to some other opinions about performance cars. Since VWs and Audi's are cousins I guess your own comparisons and opinions don't count, and it sounds like you speak for everyone on this forum.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    "Relax and take a deep breath" is great advice.

    Mark doesn't speak for everyone on this forum at all - and I'm quite certain that it has never occurred to him to assume that role. You seem to have only dropped by here recently. Please understand that we have quite a history here of interest in and enthusiasm about the A6.

    If you or anyone else want/wants to compare the G35 - or any other offering from any manufacturer - to the A6, certainly that would be a welcome discussion in the Town Hall. However, the place to have that conversation would be on our Comparisons board - not here in a discussion that is dedicated to only one of the two vehicles of which you speak.

    Please feel free to create a comparison discussion between the A6 and G35 - or any other vehicle you'd like to compare - on the appropriate board.

    Let's let these good folks get back to talking about A6s in the same way that we have folks talking about the G35 in their own dedicated discussion.

    Feel free to drop me an email if you have any questions at all.

    Thanks!

    Pat
    Sedans Host
  • bertram60bertram60 Posts: 113
    You did not get the gist of what I was trying to say, and as I check on this (and other) boards from my office during brief periods of free time, what I was trying to illustrate may not have been clear.

    My statement regarding straight line acceleration was meant to illustrate that this is only part of the equation, that we each have our own definition as to what makes a "performance" vehicle, and what we are looking for in a "performance" sedan is based on our own set of criteria. Perhaps my follow up should have been that the definition of performance is to some extent a matter of opinion, and is based on many factors, not just one (ie: speed). My Boxster was in no way a fast car, but I know of many faster cars that could not keep up with it in many situations due to it's superior handling, weight distribution and traction.

    Similarly, my Audis had tremendous traction at the limits, and limits that were well beyond many other vehicles I've owned and driven. I've also driven cars that were pure sports cars, Ferrari's, real Porsche's (that'll be good for some feedback!), Corvettes, even a McLaren (one of the four in the country) and can say there were things that I liked and didn't like about them. But, those topics are for another forum.

    My only problem with your comments is that they are interjected into this forum out of nowhere. I am sure that if I dropped into the G35 discussion with comments about how the Infinity was being overtaken by "XXX" and that they're a third class product that shall remain as such, I'd have plenty of people jumping on me and rightly so. I've done myself a disservice by randomly pointing out and saying things that I may or may not have any experience with.

    Meanwhile, I don't think anyone here would say that our Audi's have been perfect, but we love them. As a matter of fact, I have recently sold mine out of frustration (regret having done so) and still plan to order another.

    I am by no means saying that you can't have your own opinion, this is America.

    You are very correct in the statement that we all benefit from the competition between manufacturers (as long as they don't try and see who can build the cheapest!). But, I am surprised that you got as defensive as you did.

    I would certainly be waiting by the screen for the rebuttal if I jumped into another forum and made some random comments. To some extent this is part of the fun, sharing our opinions.

    No harm - no foul, we are all adults with our own opinions.

    The End
  • bjbird2bjbird2 Posts: 647
    Yes I did just drop in this forum, and when I saw Mark comparing the VW's with the Audis, I mistakinly thought that you would be interested in discussing the plusses and minuses of some other brands and making some educated comparisons. And when I was told this is a forum for performance drivers, I got a little defensive because I am as interested in performance as the next guy, and this message indicated that I wasn't qualified.
    I stand corrected, and I won't come back.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Bjbird, all I am saying is that there is a great place here to do just what you say you are interested in doing - just hop over to the Comparisons - Sedans vs. Sedans board and set up whatever topic you think would be interesting to discuss. We'd love to pursue this there, really!

    Pat
    Sedans Host
  • bjbird2bjbird2 Posts: 647
    Pat, I've just started a comparison "Audi A6 vs. Infiniti G35 forum.
    Sorry to get all of these Audi enthusiasts so upset.
  • morphiemorphie Posts: 94
    Most interesting; I do not remember our "Host" having to intercede.

    I welcome comments comparing other vehicles to A6's. My only suggestion is that the common denominator be a focus on Audi's, particularly the A6. To that end, I have a story to relate:

    I recently had an opportunity to drive on the Autostrada. When overseas, particularly in Italy, I have found it difficult to rent Audi's. Very scarce and quite expensive. However, with a little planning, it is possible. I find it intriguing to sample smaller engines, especially 6"s. At times, we all get quite wrapped up with the 2.7t's and 4.2's. Candidly, the Europeans think we are nuts (C'est la vie).

    The A6 was not available for several days. Consequently, I was offered a Lexus LS430. While it was not my first choice, I condescended to take it.

    In many respects, this is a marvellous vehicle: smooth, silent and poised. It acquitted itself well at about 200kph (125mph). Also, it displayed exemplary build quality.

    The A6 was available after about 500 miles. The difference was startling; one cannot beat those A/B comparisons. The interior was far more driver oriented; a bit less plush, but ergonomically superior. The feedback (steering, suspension) was dramatically different: far more visceral input to the senses. At speeds over 100 mph, there was a feeling of greater confidence.

    It must be stressed that the Lexus was extremely competent; just not quite the driver's car that the A6 was. However, the Germans must be careful not to take the Japanese too lightly; there is no reason to believe that Lexus cannot produce high performance machinery, able to compete with anyone.

    An interesting side note: one of our business companions was a former participant in the British Sedan racing series. He kept reminding me not to reduce speed via engine braking; "You down shift to keep the engine in its power band; brakes are for slowing the bloody thing down." His words, not mine. Of course, he is correct.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,049
    Because Audi and VW are perhaps fraternal twins or first cousins or -- historically at least -- "twin sons of different mothers" I have made comments pertaining to (specifically) the W8 Passat and the Audi A4 3.0 and Audi A6 3.0 and to a much lesser extent the Audi A6 2.7T.

    I am not competent to make comments about the Infiniti anything -- I have driven a grand total of three Infinity products -- none of them were G35's. The only one that impressed me was a J30 and the owner told me it was dangerous on any non-dry pavement. He now owns an I30 -- he loved Infiniti's but not the J30 -- if I added any more I would be speculating.

    I certainly wish to agressively present my opinions and facts (when I know them for certain as facts) -- I have no bone to pick with Infinity, any Infninty. I assume Richard has had both Audis and Infinitis and can make comparisons -- I can only present the Audi side and anecdotal "evidence."

    I enjoy this forum -- I find it relaxing and, in varying degrees, challenging. I love a good argument, but I'm not just here for contradiction. And, I do understand that an argument must often be made up of contradiction, but hopefully it will end with a substantiated logical premise. As Monty Python says "this is an argument!" "No it isn't!" "Yes it is!" "No it isn't -- this is just contradiction!" "No it isn't!" Hopefully you get my point.

    The VW Audi "discussion" perhaps has merit because of the family tree and the somewhat common parts-bin that both Audi and VW have and continue to dip into. I know of no such commerce between Audi or VW and Infinit or Lexus or Jaguar for that matter.

    I wish I could participate in the G35 vs A6 forum, I bet it will be lively. Richard, who has strong opinions (as do the rest of us) has us at a disadvantage since he has relevant ownership experience with both Audi A6's and Infinity's. I have personally owned over two dozen Audi and VW products, one BMW, one AMC Eagle and several Chryslers. I suspect the only relevant ownership experience I have had has been with the VW (and Audi) brands as I think -- especially in the example of Audi -- that I have owned at least one of every model since 1978.

    Indeed, I even had as one of my "company cars" access to a 1976 Silver Fox and a Porsche 944 (btw, the Fox was the better car, IMO).

    Sorry to have instigated any turmoil or ill will between and amongst my fellow town-hall members. Good luck to the A6 G35 topics board -- I, unfortunately, can only lurk on such a board since I literally know nothing about the G35.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,049
    So I did "lurk" on the A6 vs G35 discussion. Try as I might I could not find any evidence of Richard actually having ownership experience with an Audi A6 of any ilk.

    In principle my defense of his right to his opinion still stands, but it appears he has not owned an A6 anything.

    I shall now discuss, in depth, the Mercedes AMG Super Duper E series -- and why it is a far far better thing than I have ever done before.

    Sorry I got suckered.
  • bertram60bertram60 Posts: 113
    and also reviewed Richard's previous posts. My only complaint was that his approach was so antagonistic and without any merit. His first post was an attack on your VW / Audi discussions with follow up interjecting his beloved G35.

    While I am always interested in comparisons, I am not one to make statements when I haven't done my homework. I could have gone into a long diatribe about the two Maxima SE's that I've had, (which in reality are the same thing as an I30 but with less leather - talk about a marketing program) and how I'd never spend the money for an "up scale version" of the same exact car.

    In reviewing the G35 board there are arguments to both sides and a few A4/A6 owners who have both changed over to the G35 and those whom have switched from Infinity to Audi, but the comments there are as they are here, constructive and polite.

    What I did find interesting was that most of the existing comparison boards were of the G35 to A4/330i/X-type vehicles, not the bigger segment.

    In looking back it appears we have discussed in depth the 5 series, e-class size market.

    Anyhow, I will again fade into the background as it appears I may have started a lot of this. I thoroughly enjoy this forum and will keep watching, and with the groups permission, contributing when I can. Soon enough I hope to be back in the Audi family.
  • jscatenajscatena Posts: 61
    Comments please. I have found a great deal on an S6 ($500 over invoice) but still wonder about the 4.2. I love the performance of the S6 Avant but also like the rear seat comfort of the 4.2.

    Any pros vs cons in your minds?

    I wannabe an Audi owner here real soon!
  • vishnu11vishnu11 Posts: 59
    I am curious to know what you guys think about the comparison between the A6 and BMW 5-series. BMW owners tend to be quite fanatic (and vocal) about their choice, so I thought I'd solicit opinion from the other side of the fence.
  • timcartimcar Posts: 363
    Both are beautiful cars that ride and handle very well in dry conditions. One is a beautiful car that rides and handles very well in less than dry conditions. The A6's interior is larger and significantly more luxurious than the 5. 4.2 & 2.7T offer more go for the dough than any 5 series. It isn't a BMW, and you're not a BMW driver.
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