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Audi A6

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  • newfienewfie Posts: 3
    Have been seriously looking at the new A6 thinking that the RL might not be up to par, but after reading Edmund's first drive review, the RL is now getting more serious consideration. I wonder if their 05 RL comparison was with an 04 A6 or 05 A6. Any thoughts or comments out there.
  • liferulesliferules Posts: 531
    It was the 2004 A6. I'm not sure, but I heard it was the 3.0 CVT one as well. Not a very fair comparison vs. the 2.7t AWD which would have been more comparable IMO or even better with the C6.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,505
    Impressions:

    The 4.2 is certainly a jewel of a motor.

    I had a few issues (details separately) with the 6 speed Tip. behavior – but the acceleration available would likely satisfy anyone.

    The interior is up to Audi standards of comfort and fit / finish. The front driver’s seat was immediately comfortable, and there is room for me to sit comfortably behind myself (6’ tall) in the rear.

    The 6 disk player carves a significant chunk of space out of the glove compartment – and it is not very large to begin with.

    Handling in moderate driving is as I expected, having previously driven a last generation A6 4.2. Little reminder that all wheels are driven – except that the steering was a bit less communicative (‘dead’-er?) than I expected. Front weight bias is reasonably well masked.

    Ride with those 18 inchers is firm. Certainly not uncomfortable, for me. As it was raining lightly, I did not fetch my gauge and check the tire pressures.

    The MSRP on this vehicle with a few options (18” wheels with 40 series, all season Conti tires, cold weather package, voice recognition, sun shades - and no NAV?) was approx $53.7K. Odd to see the screen for the MMI – but no navigation display functionality.

    Pricing comments: Good to see 18” wheel / tire package as a stand alone option - $1,000 I think.

    Comparing this to a 2005 STS V8 I drove recently is interesting, price-wise. The 1SF Option Group STS (approx. $58K list) utilizes 17” wheels (not 18” – for some, that may be a good or bad thing), but includes Magnaride, includes their DVD based NAV system, includes ventilated (as well as heated) front seats, even a heated steering wheel. If one removes a requirement for AWD from the equation (and I understand that some must have this) I think one can equip these 2 similarly – and if the STS can be had (now or later) with the discounts typical of US Brand luxury makes, the STS would likely cost a similar amount – or even be a bit cheaper – TMV / OTD.

    EPA highway = 23. (City = 17) RPM at cruise in 6th gear seemed right where I’d hoped – low enough that I am surprised at the 23. I’d expected (hoped) to see 25 or more. At least the A6 4.2 has a 21 gallon fuel tank. (STS has 17 or 17.5.)

    Question:

    Ventilated seats – I do not see this on the 2005 A6 4.2 Order Guide the dealer provided. Are these available, stand alone or as part of an option group / package?

    - Ray
    Thinking a drive in the coming (2006 / 2005.5?) A4 3.2 Tip – or DSG??? Will be worth the wait – before reaching a final decision . . .
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,505
    I have driven an 8 cylinder sedan w/Tip. for over 20K miles. (OK, it was a 5 speed Tip. - in a VW, Passat W8 w/4.0L, but still. . .) Point here is that I am somewhat familiar with the Tip. Again, the A6 4.2 acceleration was certainly acceptable. The V8 has both TQ and HP to spare in any driving condition I can think of. But the Tip. behaved very strangely during my drive. 2 things stood out as anomalies, compared to me previous experience.

    1 – The new, improved 6 speed Tiptronic trans. quite was slow to respond – meaning that the shifts were acceptable, quick and firm but well cushioned, but the delay between request (lever moved forward – or back) and the initiation of the shift was much longer than I expected. And much longer than the 5 speed Tip. in my W8 ever did. Though the actual shift speed and quality were both improved over my W8.

    2 – The trans. did not want to upshift at WOT until redline, regardless of how many times I banged the lever. This is how the most recent BMW 3-Series manumatic (that I have driven) behaves, but NOT what my experience with the Tip. led me to expect.

    Comments?

    - Ray
    Bewildered . . . (one step beyond confused)
  • jgainesjgaines Posts: 39
    I hear what you are saying, but its not just what you can afford but value for the money. No doubt the TL's handling cannot match either the BMW or the Audi, and the fit and finish is also of slightly lower quality. The issue that I am struggling with is whether the significant added cost is worth it. I am going to test drive the a8, 5 and 7 series bm and the 05 RL shortly (already drove the a6 and tl). I expect that the Acura will be fully equipped for the price and the Germans will require significant options.
  • Kjnorman. I do not know where you are in Wisconsin, but up here in MN we have eight 2004 A6 avants in stock. Let me know if you have any questions about them. Also, the new A6 avant will be available approximately a year from now. Production has ceased on the current wagon leaving a limited number in national inventories.
  • kirby2010kirby2010 Posts: 136
    Interesting exchange on A6 versus Acura. When I was making my decision (2001) I did a comprehensive side-by-side comparison. Same wheel base and other dimensions, leather seats versus seating surfaces, Quattro versus front wheel drive, and so on. There was a substantial price difference but it was worth it. Acura is a good choice, just not my first choice.
  • liferulesliferules Posts: 531
    I have to agree. The luxury cars are more and more difficult to differentiate between "levels". For instance, the new A4 has a very similar body to the A6, just smaller. It will have the same engines, and most all of the amenities. Why then would one pay $10K more for a slightly longer car? It used to be that the mid-level luxury cars had more features, more luxury, etc... i.e. you paid for the privilege to have the latest and greatest. That's not the case anymore IMO.
  • kjnormankjnorman Posts: 243
    Thank you for the tip.

    I actually got a good lease quote on an Allroad, good discount off MRSP, plus $1750 off on Audi incentives ($750 existing Audi driver + $1000 coupon good to Nov 1) and a decent residual.

    I took the details to my wife (as it would be her car) and she though she likes the car she wants to review other options first but does not want to be pressured into deciding in such a short time. Her reason, too much to do before the holidays. So, I guess we'll look again after the holidays, and knowing my luck the Audi incentives will be gone and I'll be $1750 poorer. :(

    Who knows, with my current success rate in getting my wife to look at cars, the A6 Avant will be her by the time we buy. :( and :)

    Kerry
  • jeqqjeqq Posts: 216
    The $1000 dollar coupon you received, was it good towards an '05 A6?
    I have a feeling it was not. I know that Audi is giving on the new A6 a $500 incentive and a two month rebate on lease extension. I assume next month Audi will have better lease and incentive packages to promote the car.

    Just drove a '05 A6 4.2 with 18" wheels and I was amazed. The car was a dream to drive. Wherever you pointed the car it effortlessly went there. A much more comfortable drive than the previous A6's. The new larger size is just right. The V8 is very throaty and strong, just a little bit slow off the start but then kicks in.

    I did not push it hard when maneuvering, but I'm sure it will handle better than previous A6's. I felt no understeer, again point it in any direction and it goes there. Steering had a new feel to it, almost a dead on center feel to it when driving straight ahead. I'm sure the 18" wheels contributed a little bit to that. Brakes were amazing, no more low and mushy pedal. MMI looked great and Nav was very responsive, processor was fast. You could zoom in and out real fast. The new interior is distinctly Audi yet looks different than the older look. More like an A8. I liked the road feel of this car better than the A8L.

    The V6 should be comparable to the 2.7 engine without the turbo lag. I'll test drive one when they are available. I estimate the difference in price between 6 and 8 cyl to be about $3,ooo when equally outfitted.
  • tom17tom17 Posts: 134
    A couple of questions:
    You indicated that you had driven the 05 STS.
    Can you compare your opinion of the two cars?
    Specifically performance and luxury (acceleration, handling / ride).
    I heard the trunk on the new A6 is supposed to be huge (like a Deville). Did you find that to be the case?
    Thanks.
  • kjnormankjnorman Posts: 243
    The $1000 dollar coupon you received, was it good towards an '05 A6?

    It was good for the purchase of ANY Audi 2004 or 2005. The only condition was that you must take delivery by November 1.

    My wife did not want to move that fast, so I guess we'll be waiting till after the holidays now before buying. Hopefully there will be some other incentives then.

    Kerry
  • jeqqjeqq Posts: 216
    I'm wonder why I never receive any coupons. I've leased Audi's for six years now and always have to seek out info on lease buy backs and incentives. Anyone have any advice on how to stay up to date?

    Thanks for your reply,

    Jeff
  • tyheyntyheyn Posts: 14
    How did you get that $1K coupon? I've signed up multiple times with different e-mails to get notifications, and I got one last month for $500, but that's it. Let me know your ZIP code so that I can try signing up for offers in your area as well.

    Drove the '05 A6 4.2 myself today. It is nice...only major complaint is that the engine wasn't all I expected. Took a while to respond to accelerator inputs (maybe I'm too picky?) and seemed a bit slow after the rental 300C from Chrysler I've been driving around for the past week. It's certainly no laggard, but it's not neck-whipping fast, either. Interior is fabulous--I'm 6'2" and had plenty of room (in sport seats) with good room to spare in the rear for a child, as well...I'm sure an adult would feel fine, too.

    Trunk is huge, which is nice. You have an access bay for poles through the center (cold weather package only?) as well as a 70/30 split seat, although it looked more like 60/40. Tried to use the DVD nav but no DVD disc was installed. Driver Info Display is monochrome although the 46-page sales brochure shows color. (See page 16). Big note: no paddle shifts near the steering wheel as on the European model. (Nor TV, but I digress...) Took a photo of the sticker--engine is made in Hungary...interesting...have photos and video--if you want either, e-mail me at tyson . heyn at lacp . com (without the spaces, replace at with @)

    One last cool feature for the back seat: besides the central floor vent, you also have them mounted on the side 2/3rds of the way up on the b pillars. The electromagnetic parking brake felt kinda cheapy to me, but again, I'm getting far too critical...
  • liferulesliferules Posts: 531
    I agree, I received a $500 coupon which expired in October for any 2004 or 2005 models (fat chance getting a C6 in October). I never heard anything about the $1000 discount.

    TYHEYN, the 4.2 I drove had a color MMI which looked very nice and operated smoothly. It didn't have the nav system, so I can't comment on that.
  • The new 3.2 FSI V6 -- about the 2007 model year will arguably be a very powerful AND economical choice (in an era of $3.00/gal gasoline). The 2.7T S-Line A6 engine and even the previous non-S-line set up has/had virtually no turbo lag (now if you want to say that the 2.7T's when equipped with the tiptronics -- sadly the only way you could get one in an S-line -- had lag, I'll grant that; but, the lag was a combination of TIP lag and DBW lag, the 2.7T's turbo lag is, I'll argue, almost imperceptible.)

    There is, unfortunately, no comparison of the 2.7T to the 3.2 FSI. First off although the HorsePower of the 3.2 is 5 higher than the old 2.7T, it is 10 lower than the currently available S-line 2.7T. But the story, as it always is, one of torque.

    Not only one of the sheer amount of torque but the availability of that torque.

    In an apples to apples comparison, the 2004 A6 4.2 -- tip only -- when compared to the 2004 S-line A6 2.7T (also tip only) was destined to be the loser in the 0-100kph drag race that we Americans seem to worship. The non-S-line A6 2.7T with the 6speed manual transmission, was, at the time -- THE quickest to 100kph of all US bound Audis (that were non-tuner cars, such as the RS 6). Indeed, even the mighty S4 was rated no better than the A6, so equipped.

    Before you protest, this is a tiny bit of a spin, since TECHNICALLY, in 2003, for example, the A6 2.7T 6spd manual was the quickest Audi you could buy (until the RS 6 came out). Indeed, the A6 bettered the S6 in the 0-100kph regard.

    The A6 2.7T non-S-Line, was quicker than the NEW 2005 A6 4.2, in fact.

    I knew the 2.7T Senator, and the new 3.2 is no 2.7T!

    So, with the spirit of a positive disagreement, the biggest thought of "what were they thinking" relates to the new A6 3.2 -- which, when maxed out prices about the same as a maxed out 2.7T S-line -- is significantly (in the 0-100kph drag race that IS THE AMERICAN Holy Grail) s-l-o-w-e-r. And neither one of them have turbo lag, but both of them (in tiptronic guise) have tip lag and DBW (throttle lag).

    The good old 2.7T S-Line had gobs of torque and, and, it came on BELOW 2,000 RPM. The new 3.2, has both LOWER and SLOWER torque.

    For all the advantages and forward progress the new 3.2 represents (and probably will even moreso in the '07's), it is a significant step backwards in quickness.

    For the umpteenth time: "what was Audi thinking?" The new guy should always beat the old guy, even if it is only mostly symbolic.

    I LOVE the new A6 for all the reasons you cite -- but it is NOT setting the world on fire especially when compared (at the price point) with the Chrysler 300C AWD, the new Acura RL and some of the similarly price offerings from Japan.

    Now, please remember, I bleed little Audi Rings when cut -- I make these observations and analysis as a friend of the family.
  • newfienewfie Posts: 3
    You're right, not a fair comparison at all. Drove the RL today and came away with mixed feelings. Overall, interior made a pos impression, but the "wood" trim on dash seemed too plasticky. The seats could have used a little more lenth for better thigh support. The electronic stuff all seemed to work great, but a hardwire cell option would have been nice. The exterior seemed fine from the back, the chrome side moldings did nothing for it, and the front seemed a little too retro honda "generic"(like the Suzuki ads properly criticize honda for). Capable driver and the SH-AWD made a noticable addition to around town handling, although didn't really have a chance to press it at speed.
    Overall impression, another great honda "appliance", although with added refinement, but not a whole lot of soul. I don't think the mag would have compared an 05 A6 against the old RL so they should have waited until a fair test could be made. Hope to check out the A6 soon.
  • newfienewfie Posts: 3
    My pricing comparison between the 3.2 & 4.2 when well equipped was in the $4700-4900 range. How badly do I want the nav? Hmm.
  • jeqqjeqq Posts: 216
    I drove the 300c two times and had mixed feelings. The car handled well, very quite, comfortable, had lots of pickup, and you sat in it like a king. On the other hand it bounced and had wheel shimmy when going over road bumps and cracks over forty MPH. I experienced on the second test drive an immediate and severe pull to the right on a flat straight-ahead road. If you look at the 300 forums many people have pull to the right issues. The car has a major steering defect and I'm not willing to take the chance. I also noticed things like metal-coated plastic parts in the outside door handles. The engine bonnet just lays on top of the engine, easy to fall off. The car is good only good on the surface, go in deeper and you find they skimped on things to make it $40,000 fully loaded.
    Their autostick (tiptronic) is a joke. If you are in the autostick mode and want out you have to hold the stick and run through the gears to get back into drive. At one point when using the autostick the trannie got lost in space when I tried to shift back into drive. It couldn't find a gear. The engine was revving and the car was going nowhere, very strange.

    I can't say anything about the RL. I guess they don't appeal to me. I don't even notice them on the roads.

    In regard to auto vs. stick, I don't miss driving a stick at all. In fact the "tip" does it all for me at my stage in life. I can empathize with your feelings about loosing your stick at this stage in your life (you know I'm only kidding with you). By the way, I learned how to drive a stick on a forty-two foot truck. I had to learn real quick how to shift that thing. I’ll never forget my first hill and having to stop at the top of it for a red light.

    I like pickup and currently have a 2001 A6 2.7t. I hope the 3.2 will do it for me even if it is a tad slower. I hope they set up the gear ratios to give it enough oomph when you need it.

    In summation, Audi build quality, safety features, Quattro, 4 year warranty and maintenance is what keeps me in an Audi.
  • jeqqjeqq Posts: 216
    In my case, I often don't know where I'm going. I need Nav.
    Less fights with the wife.
  • I've been fortunate to drive the new 4.2 A6 several times this week in varying conditions and I must say this is a great car. I've never owned a foreign make, so maybe this is why I'm just blown away by its capabilities.

    It has performed like a champ heading up into the mountains (for those of you who know I-70 westbound from the C-470 intercharge to Lookout Mountain Road, it held 75 mph at 2500 rpm with ease), hard cornering in the canyon from Morrison, CO to Evergreen (60 mph around corners rated at 25 mph was a breeze. Didn't even squeel the tires.), and tooling around town.

    The brakes are awesome and acceleration solid. Plenty of space in the back, as well as the trunk. MMI looks nice, although it will take me some time to get used to it.

    Some down falls were the bulge in the floor in the rear seat by the air conditioner, which means only 4 adults will really fit comfortably in this car. The car exhibits more road noise than I expected. The glove box is a joke, as well as the lack of cup holders (although I understand from friends that most German makes have never really figured out Americans obsession with cup holders.).

    In my search for the car with the bells and whistles I want, I came across a dealer in Colorado Springs who indicated there is a $3,000 love rebate direct to the dealer. Unfortunately he didn't have the car I wanted, so I'm curious if anybody is familiar with this rebate? From what he told me, Audi is offering this incentive for the first 90 days to try and get the car out on the road. According to Edmunds, there are no incentives available, but I thought I would ask here if anyone else has heard of this mysterious rebate. Recognizing that this car is going to command list price for a while, this 90 day kicker sounds too good to be true.
  • liferulesliferules Posts: 531
    Stumblefoot,

    What a lot of people have heard is that the prices of the new C6 A6 will go UP by several thousand dollars after several months. Maybe that's the "love rebate" the dealer is referring to... Nobody seems to know any real details, just lots of speculation.
  • tyheyntyheyn Posts: 14
    I wholly agree on your 300c observations. I thought I was going crazy in observing the pull-to-the-right effect...it's very noticeable. Handling stinks, too...Can't pull it around corners very nicely or elegantly--the car really struggles to maintain traction.

    The cars roughly the same as the A6, but it feels a lot 'heavier'--some of it perceptual, I'm sure, but in terms of handling, it's a laggard. But that engine sure is nice...never mind that it sounds like a truck or 80s era MB.
  • tom17tom17 Posts: 134
    I went and test drove the new A6 4.2 at my local dealer today. Overall it was very nice, but not quite up to the performance level of the BMW 545. My dealer had a list of colors and options and colors, but no one knew what the Stratos Blue looks like. Supposedly they have not received any of the big brochures yet. Can anyone tell me what shade of blue it is? Is it the silver blue I think I saw on the Audi web site (of a European model)? Thanks.
  • tyheyntyheyn Posts: 14
    I can actually comment on that--I have the 46-page brochure on the car. The stratos blue is pretty dark, but not as dark as night blue (obviously). It looks considerably darker than the stratos blue I see on A6s on sale in Europe--just do a google search for one in Germany or the UK to get the idea, either new or used. It's also a lot darker than it looks on the 'configurator' on the Audi web site.

    I'd describe the color at pretty much dark blue. All of these 'pearlized' colors change whether you're looking at the swatch in the sunlight/in a room's ambient light, etc..., so what I'm describing is pretty much the brightest form of the color you'll see.

    So, maybe my swatches are defective, although the black, silver, white, and beige look correct. (Drove the beige one yesterday.) It just seems that any color that's supposed to be somewhat dark (oyster gray metallic, cambridge green, stratos/night blue) is REALLY dark. But again, when you extrapolate the color from the one-inch square I'm looking at to an entire automobile, maybe it looks different.

    Give me your e-mail address if you want me to send you a photo of the swatch page from the brochure. tyson dot heyn at lacp dot com
  • liferulesliferules Posts: 531
    tom17,

    Its a mid to deep blue. I don't see much silver in it at all. I'm surprised your dealer didn't have a brochure, mine did with color swatches, etc... I have a picture I can email you if needed.
  • liferulesliferules Posts: 531
    Here's the blue I was talking about.

    image
  • tyheyntyheyn Posts: 14
    Great pic--is that a photo of a prototype? (Looking at the headlights.) Did they ID the color as stratos blue?
  • tom17tom17 Posts: 134
    Thanks for the photo. That would be an acceptable color for me. I appreciate it.
  • tom17tom17 Posts: 134
    My only negative from test driving the 05 A6 4.2 yesterday was the initial off the line acceleration. The engine seems to have to gather a few RPM's before the acceleration really kicks in. When I put the transmission into "S" mode (supposed to be Sport mode), the initial off the line acceleration was even worse. Maybe it is "Snow" mode??? Comparing it to the BMW 545, the ride is much better (both with the Sport Package), the handling is close but more numb in the A6, and the acceleration is definately slower in the A6. I really like the steering on the 545 with Sport package, the gearing changes depending upon car speed and can turn lock to lock immediatly when parking. Missed it trying to turn the A6 around in the dealer's lot. With the same options the A6 was $54K, the 545 $60K. At least the A6 is 10% less $$$. Tried to look at the new STS, but all my local dealer has are V6's.
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